[torqueaddict]

You've been the victim of a crappy dealer. While this may not be a common issue, it certainly isn't the first case of it happening. There MUST be documented repair info that can give a clue. If the dealer doesn't have it (which is possible), other dealers and Chevrolet should. Hell, you can find info on the internet.

Being that it's a safety issue, they should not have released the car before replacing the entire system (rack, sensor, connector etc) if no DTC was found. I'm sure it'll still be cheaper than a lawsuit or having to buy the car back.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

You've been the victim of a crappy dealer. While this may not be a common issue, it certainly isn't the first case of it happening. There MUST be documented repair info that can give a clue. If the dealer doesn't have it (which is possible), other dealers and Chevrolet should. Hell, you can find info on the internet.

Being that it's a safety issue, they should not have released the car before replacing the entire system (rack, sensor, connector etc) if no DTC was found. I'm sure it'll still be cheaper than a lawsuit or having to buy the car back.

I agree 100% -- Thing is also though that Chevrolet Customer Service also doesnt give a rat either. They too were completely satisfied with the dealer giving me a potentially unsafe car just because they can't replicate the issue.

Is there anything else I can do about this aside from lemoning it just to wake Chevrolet up a bit? the idea of them ignoring potentially unsafe issues and shunning customers is a bit upsetting.

I recorded the conversation I had with customer service, I'll try to release it later to show you all what I mean.

[matt fe2o3]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Not sure about TX, but in CA it is 4 repair attempts within the warranty period, not in the first 12K miles for lemon law requirements. As long as the first repair attempt occurred within the warranty period, you are even covered outside the warranty mileage.

You may want to research TX lemon law requirements. I can't imagine they would be more strict than California.

I have gone thru the lemon law process a few times in my life, everyone of them successfully.

THIS.

[Jim50thSS]

I feel awful for you. We spend a lot of money on these cars and a lot of us really try to take care of them. Shouldn't be such an issue to get things like this fixed.
I think this is more of having to deal with a crappy dealer. I had the same issue and they just cleaned the connections and etc. They said one the connections had some corrosion, so maybe that was the issue. However when they gave it back to me they told me that if it happens again they would need to replace the entire steering assembly. Their technician and customer service guy was very matter of the fact about the replacement if it happens again. They didn't seem to be trying to dodge the responsibility.
I've had it back for at least 2 weeks and it hasn't happened again, but when if it does I am not expecting the hassles you have received.

[DanSnow]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I agree 100% -- Thing is also though that Chevrolet Customer Service also doesnt give a rat either. They too were completely satisfied with the dealer giving me a potentially unsafe car just because they can't replicate the issue.

Is there anything else I can do about this aside from lemoning it just to wake Chevrolet up a bit? the idea of them ignoring potentially unsafe issues and shunning customers is a bit upsetting.

I recorded the conversation I had with customer service, I'll try to release it later to show you all what I mean.

@Bold You could drive it into a tree next time the power steering is out. That might get their attention.

[JT58]

I feel your pain. My (former) Camaro is still at the dealership in queue to get the transmission repaired for the A8 shuddering issue- new torque converter. It's been there 2 weeks, no work done. When done it goes to the Ford dealer- I traded it in.

I loved my Camaro so much, I am so upset about it but did not want this hassle and dealing with a bad tranny now or in the future. I traded it in for a Mustang. I can't say I love the Mustang but at least it is similar to the Camaro but has M/T and does everything it's supposed to so far and if it has no defects, I'll be so happy. I went with another Ford as my other car is Fiesta ST and I have had no issues at all.

I will miss my Camaro but will not buy GM again.

Best of luck to you!

[STYLO LT1]

🍋 LAW!!

[FrostySS]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

What should I do about the survey? I dont want the rep to take all the heat...but GM needs to know this is seriously ****ed up.

Unfortunately a bad survey will only screw over the service writer, NOT GM/Chevy. As a former writer/manager don't give the writer a bad survey, it costs them a lot of $$$(well potentially can). The survey system blows.

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Being that it's a safety issue, they should not have released the car before replacing the entire system (rack, sensor, connector etc) if no DTC was found. I'm sure it'll still be cheaper than a lawsuit or having to buy the car back.

That's not how it works, at all. Who is paying for the repairs? Why should the dealership have to eat the cost of repairs? It's not their fault. Unless someone within GM authorizes all of those parts to be replaced whether through technical assistance or the district manager GM isn't reimbursing the dealership for all of those repair costs. The dealership didn't build the car, they only sold it.

Yes, in a perfect world the dealership should be able to do what they need to do to make the customer happy and get the car repaired...but this isn't a perfect world. GM checks parts sent back under a warranty repair and if they find no fault they can and WILL debit the dealership the cost of the part and labor submitted on said warranty claim.

That's how the world works, it's not the dealership's fault GM builds shit products at times, they shouldn't have to pay for stuff they can't duplicate. Now, that's where a good writer, manager and tech come in and word things properly, call the right people within TAC or get the district manager involved.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FrostySS

Unfortunately a bad survey will only screw over the service writer, NOT GM/Chevy. As a former writer/manager don't give the writer a bad survey, it costs them a lot of $$$(well potentially can). The survey system blows.



That's not how it works, at all. Who is paying for the repairs? Why should the dealership have to eat the cost of repairs? It's not their fault. Unless someone within GM authorizes all of those parts to be replaced whether through technical assistance or the district manager GM isn't reimbursing the dealership for all of those repair costs. The dealership didn't build the car, they only sold it.

Yes, in a perfect world the dealership should be able to do what they need to do to make the customer happy and get the car repaired...but this isn't a perfect world. GM checks parts sent back under a warranty repair and if they find no fault they can and WILL debit the dealership the cost of the part and labor submitted on said warranty claim.

That's how the world works, it's not the dealership's fault GM builds shit products at times, they shouldn't have to pay for stuff they can't duplicate. Now, that's where a good writer, manager and tech come in and word things properly, call the right people within TAC or get the district manager involved.

For a typical repair, I'm with you, but a serious issue like this that can result in death or injury? Sorry but it gets fixed or they take back the car because I'm not driving it. This would be a situation in which I'd take it as far as it needs to go.

It is not the type of repair you want a customer testing out on the street.
In this situation, I could give two craps about who eats the cost. That's Chevy and the dealer's problem, not mine.

There are only so many components that can be at fault, so if no code, and there is proof the issue exists, then replace all parts and call it a day. Anything else is guessing and not addressing the problem.

Like you pretty much said in your last sentence, a good dealer with competent people can make it happen and get paid on top of it.

[FrostySS]

I get what you're saying but that's not how the world works. GM sucks, plain and simple. I'll probably never work for them again if/when I get back into the automotive industry. Even with what a I mentioned with good manager, tech etc GM LOVES LOVES LOVES saying no, especially now that they've come out of the bailout and are profitable. I'm not saying you're wrong per se but GM calls the shots, the dealership isn't going to risk thousands of dollars on something they can't duplicate at that time...even though I totally get what you're saying it's not how it works, safety issue or not.

So in closing, GM as a company sucks, if I wasn't a Camaro guy I'd never buy a GM product knowing what I know, knowing how the company operates.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Well they finally diagnosed it while it was running. I told them not to turn it off and they got the DTC and FINALLY they diagnosed it as the steering torque sensor. (Like I've been telling them for the whole month.) and they are ordering it now. I'm praying to God this is the last of this issue.

Whoda guessed?
This goes on over and over. GM has had torque sensors failing for more than a decade.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

hopefully the torque steering sensor will fix it, thats the only code that came up. Ive been seeing alot that the torque steering sensor is the culprit. I wont mind them replacing the rack / motor but getting them to do that will be like pulling teeth.

They do the whole rack to eliminate everything, sometimes.

This is so simple - main power connector or torque sensor.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

So here is another thing I really need an opinion and insight on...

I love my 2SS to death and I know its a machine, its going to have hurdles. Im not "pissed" that this issue exists on a brand new car, cars today are complex creations and there's no way every single model is going out the assembly line perfect... my thing is, as long as the issue is willing to be respectfully resolved and not haggle over nickles and dimes of my time...we're still cool.

Here is what is really pissing me off about this situation though. The loss of power steering is potentially a safety hazard if it happens when you least expect it, or possibly while making a low speed turn and suddenly the wheel doesnt pop back into place and you find yourself going into a ditch... Chevrolet however wants to "replicate" the issue...and not all issues set off DTC codes. I provided sufficient evidence (a video) of the problem...yet my car gets held up for a month instead of just nuking the problem with replacing the torque steering sensor (likely probably cause).. I even got Chevrolet Customer Service involved and it got escalated pretty high up there but their conclusion was... "well your car hasnt been in the shop enough times to qualify for a replacement or anything else other than continuing to repair it" ...this was literally a month after the shop took delivery.. and Im like "Okay so you want me to continue driving it, potentially risking my safety, the safety of others on the highway...just so you can replicate an issue." ..and they even got rude and told me they weren't going to go back and forth with me over this problem and they provided their final answer...or basically Im stuck with a $50,000 car that intermittently loses power steering and they're PERFECTLY okay with that... and finally here is what is really f*cked up about this system... or atleast from what I know of it...
...the customer surveys...
...The rep who took delivery of my car is of course, not the mechanic or even the person who diagnosis it...he takes keys, makes paperwork, sends it to the shop...and all the survey falls on HIM...what the hell?... He has nothing to do with any of this. To his respect he really did everything within his power but his power was limited.. He gave me his cell, gave me updates via text, gave me a free tank of gas, promised free oil changes even... he wants a good survey -- now on the behalf of the dealership though... Chevy needs to know this system is f*cked up... I don't want to risk my safety trying to prove I have a problem by continuously driving it until somehow the power steering goes out when I've already confirmed it.

GM needs a way to be more flexible about these sort of non-reproducible issues especially when it has to do with how the vehicle is controlled such as a steering issue instead of putting it back on the customer.

What should I do about the survey? I dont want the rep to take all the heat...but GM needs to know this is seriously ****ed up.

I'm already going to make a video about this issue and make sure it gets visibility.

Pure bad moves. Dealer brings in GM and they are dumbfounded by yet another torque sensor failure.

It's only steering. Do it by-wire and the heck with dependability.

Texas decided the 4 times thing, not the BBB.
https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/cons...tion/lemon-law

You can WIN the BBB arbitration case. GM either doesn't show up, or are not prepared - most of the time.

Good Luck!

Great car, and a great pia!

[ninetres]

Having a dealership service writer, and manager in your “corner” motivated to help fight the good fight with the shot callers at GM is important. The risk of shitty survey that effects them should be motivation to do all within their means to correct the issue. If we all simply gave 5 stars across the board regardless of our level of satisfaction in a given service visit.....why would they ever be motivated to go the extra mile to convince regional managers, GM etc to rectify your issue?

I’ve worked a job with the same BS survey system. But the possibility of bad surveys kept me hungry to do EVERYTHING I could and more for my customers.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FrostySS

I get what you're saying but that's not how the world works. GM sucks, plain and simple. I'll probably never work for them again if/when I get back into the automotive industry. Even with what a I mentioned with good manager, tech etc GM LOVES LOVES LOVES saying no, especially now that they've come out of the bailout and are profitable. I'm not saying you're wrong per se but GM calls the shots, the dealership isn't going to risk thousands of dollars on something they can't duplicate at that time...even though I totally get what you're saying it's not how it works, safety issue or not.

So in closing, GM as a company sucks, if I wasn't a Camaro guy I'd never buy a GM product knowing what I know, knowing how the company operates.

They all do. You think Ford, Dodge,Mazda or Honda are any better?

I won't single out GM, but it's no excuse either. Others have gotten this issue taken care of easily without a hitch, so it starts with the dealer.

[Mighty Mouce]

That 3 strikes! They are out...use the Lemon Law.