[radz28]

Originally Posted by CamOnlyJabroni

Gaining speed without adding any power seems like a win win to me. I think it’s $200 to get unlocked and four credits via HPTuners. My CAI was $750. I’m sure a TCM tune will make a bigger difference than my CAI and ported TB combined made untuned.

Don't forget the cost of tuning, too. Calibrators don't include that cost, and while there are resources to find that can guide you to tuning some of this stuff, to get the most out of a tune, a knowledgeable calibrator is going to probably be the way to go.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by radz28

Don't forget the cost of tuning, too. Calibrators don't include that cost, and while there are resources to find that can guide you to tuning some of this stuff, to get the most out of a tune, a knowledgeable calibrator is going to probably be the way to go.

He knows a guy.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

He knows a guy.

I'm tempted to look into that T93-conversion (I guess it's to a T87A) from HHP. I haven't noticed a follow-up from whoever here started to look into that.

What I'm worried about is losing the ability for the TCM to integrate the differing modes our cars have. Maybe it does it just fine, but there's almost always something you have to give up for something like this, and maybe I don't really need that level of integration, I like to keep it because that's how the car was engineered.

I should just reach out to them, lol.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by radz28

I'm tempted to look into that T93-conversion (I guess it's to a T87A) from HHP. I haven't noticed a follow-up from whoever here started to look into that.

What I'm worried about is losing the ability for the TCM to integrate the differing modes our cars have. Maybe it does it just fine, but there's almost always something you have to give up for something like this, and maybe I don't really need that level of integration, I like to keep it because that's how the car was engineered.

I should just reach out to them, lol.

You have a fair chance here. Since the T87A worked perfectly in 2017-2018 ZL1s and the powertrain is the same in later MYs, there is a good probability that, small bugfixes or tiny adjustments aside, GM's main reason for switching to the T93 was the new encryption. If that's the case, you'll lose nothing.

[Z OH 6]

I've seen no updates from anyone that was making this T87 swap. Would love to see some before and after drag times.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

You have a fair chance here. Since the T87A worked perfectly in 2017-2018 ZL1s and the powertrain is the same in later MYs, there is a good probability that, small bugfixes or tiny adjustments aside, GM's main reason for switching to the T93 was the new encryption. If that's the case, you'll lose nothing.

That's what I'm hoping for, but I feel like there's gotta be a catch. There usually is. Or - I'm completely wrong. That's probably the case.

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

I've seen no updates from anyone that was making this T87 swap. Would love to see some before and after drag times.

Me, too.

I'm wondering what's really left on the table at my power level. It's not that much higher than stock, but, if I got a few tenths, that'd probably be worth it, honestly.

My buddy's wondering how low the torque limits really are, because he's really had to lower a lot of the bottom-end of his powerband to keep from seeing TMA and throttle closure. So much so, the torque curve actually rises with RPM and doesn't ever fall-off. Perhaps some of that is VVE tuning, but MAF is good - confirmed with WB and trims (where applicable). But - he really had to pull VTT down, in the lower RPMs. That sounds bad, but the car was spinning the DRs in 3rd around 40 anyways, so it's not like, on the street, he's losing much, but wondering if there is some power left is what is killing him, ha. I guess it would be worth seeing what T87-guys are/were seeing and seeing if we could compare.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by radz28

That's what I'm hoping for, but I feel like there's gotta be a catch. There usually is. Or - I'm completely wrong. That's probably the case.



Me, too.

I'm wondering what's really left on the table at my power level. It's not that much higher than stock, but, if I got a few tenths, that'd probably be worth it, honestly.

My buddy's wondering how low the torque limits really are, because he's really had to lower a lot of the bottom-end of his powerband to keep from seeing TMA and throttle closure. So much so, the torque curve actually rises with RPM and doesn't ever fall-off. Perhaps some of that is VVE tuning, but MAF is good - confirmed with WB and trims (where applicable). But - he really had to pull VTT down, in the lower RPMs. That sounds bad, but the car was spinning the DRs in 3rd around 40 anyways, so it's not like, on the street, he's losing much, but wondering if there is some power left is what is killing him, ha. I guess it would be worth seeing what T87-guys are/were seeing and seeing if we could compare.

I've asked a couple of times for whoever started this thread and those that purchased it to report back their findings but haven't gotten a response, maybe it's not worth the upgrade. And on a side not i'm confused by the Bold up above, if I get a Magnuson that you've been pointing me too i want to be a "little more than stock"

[JSH]

Originally Posted by clg82

I've asked a couple of times for whoever started this thread and those that purchased it to report back their findings but haven't gotten a response, maybe it's not worth the upgrade.

HPP sells and tunes them, so they better have some happy customers out there that they can tell a buyer about. I've exchanged a bunch of email with them and perhaps it's time for a call.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by clg82

I've asked a couple of times for whoever started this thread and those that purchased it to report back their findings but haven't gotten a response, maybe it's not worth the upgrade. And on a side not i'm confused by the Bold up above, if I get a Magnuson that you've been pointing me too i want to be a "little more than stock"

While 70-100 RWHP is a lot to me, considering regular builds around there get way past that easily, that about-700 RWHP isn't much

[clg82]

Originally Posted by radz28

While 70-100 RWHP is a lot to me, considering regular builds around there get way past that easily, that about-700 RWHP isn't much

haha understandable

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by CamOnlyJabroni

Gaining speed without adding any power seems like a win win to me. I think it’s $200 to get unlocked and four credits via HPTuners. My CAI was $750. I’m sure a TCM tune will make a bigger difference than my CAI and ported TB combined made untuned.

BINGO. TCM unlock for 2017-2019 and the 4 credits is around 450, while I paid 459 for my SS Rotofab. TCM tuning was worth a lot more in the 1/4 mile than the CAI was for my SS. Anyone paying attention should already know this, locked TCM really spoils the party in the ZL1. Look at how guys install drag radials on a car with 650hp and boatloads of lower-rpm torque. Then they get a 1.6 short time, or slower. The locked TCM is not allowing them to use all of the torque and power that they already paid for just buying the car, let alone if they spent even more money on engine parts. Not to mention, tire changes can really suck with a locked TCM. My own 2017 SS had a locked TCM for a while, and when I installed the popular 305/45-17 MT drag radial, it f-ed up my shifts, found out that 1st gear was only getting to 5500~5900 at best, so I checked it with the stock tire and it would reach ~6100 or a little more with that tire. So the stock tune was not even correct for the stock tire, and then it really sucked with the tire change.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by clg82

haha understandable

I was just trying to keep my comments relative to the bigger power a lot of others are making

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

BINGO. TCM unlock for 2017-2019 and the 4 credits is around 450, while I paid 459 for my SS Rotofab. TCM tuning was worth a lot more in the 1/4 mile than the CAI was for my SS. Anyone paying attention should already know this, locked TCM really spoils the party in the ZL1. Look at how guys install drag radials on a car with 650hp and boatloads of lower-rpm torque. Then they get a 1.6 short time, or slower. The locked TCM is not allowing them to use all of the torque and power that they already paid for just buying the car, let alone if they spent even more money on engine parts. Not to mention, tire changes can really suck with a locked TCM. My own 2017 SS had a locked TCM for a while, and when I installed the popular 305/45-17 MT drag radial, it f-ed up my shifts, found out that 1st gear was only getting to 5500~5900 at best, so I checked it with the stock tire and it would reach ~6100 or a little more with that tire. So the stock tune was not even correct for the stock tire, and then it really sucked with the tire change.

From what I've seen, and as far as I can understand, all these comments have lead me to the same conclusion.

I was watching one of CSPs earlier builds on Andrew's car and you could see flat-spots in the dyno curves of the stock tune. He never mentioned it, but I suspect it was throttle or TMA limiting torque. I have noticed those flat-spots on a lot of stock-tune dynos, right about the same spot in the powerband. I've also read and seen comments in videos about the throttle not opening from a dig all the way until after a certain speed or whatnot. It is my opinion these seem to be torque limits from the stock tune. I'm no expert, and I wasn't there for those runs, and almost none posted scans from the logs, so I don't know for certain, but I do know these limits are real, and it's a graceful balance to get them all to jive with each other to have a car that will open the throttle all the way when you command it to, and to have full timing when commanded.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

BINGO. TCM unlock for 2017-2019 and the 4 credits is around 450, while I paid 459 for my SS Rotofab. TCM tuning was worth a lot more in the 1/4 mile than the CAI was for my SS. Anyone paying attention should already know this, locked TCM really spoils the party in the ZL1. Look at how guys install drag radials on a car with 650hp and boatloads of lower-rpm torque. Then they get a 1.6 short time, or slower. The locked TCM is not allowing them to use all of the torque and power that they already paid for just buying the car, let alone if they spent even more money on engine parts. Not to mention, tire changes can really suck with a locked TCM. My own 2017 SS had a locked TCM for a while, and when I installed the popular 305/45-17 MT drag radial, it f-ed up my shifts, found out that 1st gear was only getting to 5500~5900 at best, so I checked it with the stock tire and it would reach ~6100 or a little more with that tire. So the stock tune was not even correct for the stock tire, and then it really sucked with the tire change.

I believe HHP is charging much much more than the 450.00 you paid.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

BINGO. TCM unlock for 2017-2019 and the 4 credits is around 450, while I paid 459 for my SS Rotofab. TCM tuning was worth a lot more in the 1/4 mile than the CAI was for my SS. Anyone paying attention should already know this, locked TCM really spoils the party in the ZL1. Look at how guys install drag radials on a car with 650hp and boatloads of lower-rpm torque. Then they get a 1.6 short time, or slower. The locked TCM is not allowing them to use all of the torque and power that they already paid for just buying the car, let alone if they spent even more money on engine parts. Not to mention, tire changes can really suck with a locked TCM. My own 2017 SS had a locked TCM for a while, and when I installed the popular 305/45-17 MT drag radial, it f-ed up my shifts, found out that 1st gear was only getting to 5500~5900 at best, so I checked it with the stock tire and it would reach ~6100 or a little more with that tire. So the stock tune was not even correct for the stock tire, and then it really sucked with the tire change.

You driving an SS or ZL1? I ask because it seems like there's more gain to be had from the A8 than the A10 until the A10 vehicle is modified with a cam and higher HP applications.