[detamble13]

If the Camaro nameplate lives on as an EV I think they should attempt to sell the existing car so they can carry that momentum forward to the new powertrain. Making little effort now (yes Number 3 I know marketing the car will apparently have no sales benefit) is the equivalent to an athlete saying "I would have won if...". So once they go EV they plan to sell Camaros, I'm just not so sure.
All that being said I remain hopeful automotive enthusiasm still has a place in the electric landscape and GM offers a 2 door sporty car that is affordable. Call it a Chevelle if it's offered as a 4 door though.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Doesn't quite answer your question on height, but describes the flexibility.

Of note that I did not know is LG chem can sell these cells to anyone. It's not GM proprietary.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ectric-future/

Not sure what to make of it. It seems GM is doing all the research and leg-work, yet they will have no say in who gets to use this technology?

Not really concerned about it, but why would GM put all their eggs in one basket if it's up for grabs?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by detamble13

If the Camaro nameplate lives on as an EV I think they should attempt to sell the existing car so they can carry that momentum forward to the new powertrain. Making little effort now (yes Number 3 I know marketing the car will apparently have no sales benefit) is the equivalent to an athlete saying "I would have won if...". So once they go EV they plan to sell Camaros, I'm just not so sure.
All that being said I remain hopeful automotive enthusiasm still has a place in the electric landscape and GM offers a 2 door sporty car that is affordable. Call it a Chevelle if it's offered as a 4 door though.

Just call this new EV marvel by its skateboard platform sub designation. ZF9 or whatever... No need to drag the Camaro or Chevelle name into it.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Doesn't quite answer your question on height, but describes the flexibility

It seems to me that the skateboard architecture pretty much forces floor heights to go up, which drives the H-point and roof heights up with it unless there's some really creative way of packaging the battery packs away from all of the footwell areas while still providing the full design KWH capacity. That seems a more realistic expectation at Porsche money than at everyman's Chevy money.


Norm

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It seems to me that the skateboard architecture pretty much forces floor heights to go up, which drives the H-point and roof heights up with it unless there's some really creative way of packaging the battery packs away from all of the footwell areas while still providing the full design KWH capacity. That seems a more realistic expectation at Porsche money than at everyman's Chevy money.


Norm

I think that using pouch cells that can lay flat when assembled into modules and packs gives the flexibility to build low roof vehicles with lower H-points. Now, whether or not GM will take advantage of this flexibility is a whole different question. I’m certainly hoping they will.

[Hops]

https://www.gm.com/our-stories/techn...ckable-ev.html

Does shape really matter? Yes! Ultium’s flat cell pouches waste less space and can stack on top of each other like pancakes or vertically like slices of toast. This simple modular design makes it easy for engineers to optimize energy density and vehicle layout, which translates to more miles on a single charge for less cost.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by detamble13

If the Camaro nameplate lives on as an EV I think they should attempt to sell the existing car so they can carry that momentum forward to the new powertrain. Making little effort now (yes Number 3 I know marketing the car will apparently have no sales benefit) is the equivalent to an athlete saying "I would have won if...". So once they go EV they plan to sell Camaros, I'm just not so sure.
All that being said I remain hopeful automotive enthusiasm still has a place in the electric landscape and GM offers a 2 door sporty car that is affordable. Call it a Chevelle if it's offered as a 4 door though.

Careful, I’ve never said marketing won’t help. I’ve said TV commercials won’t help, at least enough to be more profitable

[CamaroRSOnt]

Don't buy the bullshit that Tesla makes money, they live on subsidies and gov't driven tax credits.... GM goes woke and starts to tell the consumer what they want and I can see another bankruptcy in their future.



Tesla Reports Record Sales, Continues to Lose Money ...

https://www.caranddriver.com › news › teslas-q1-2021-...

Apr. 27, 2021 — The electric automaker said it built and delivered more vehicles in the first three months of 2021 than in any quarter ever before. Tesla said ...


Motor Mouth: Tesla's real business model | Driving

https://driving.ca › features › feature-story › tesla-elon-...

Sep. 29, 2020 — Tesla's "profits" are totally dependent on ZEV credits that might ... As long as he's allowed to continue losing money on every car he ...



Tesla's dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn't come from selling ...

https://www.mercurynews.com › 2021/02/01 › teslas-di...

Feb. 1, 2021 — Tesla posted its first full year of net income in 2020. (Luke Sharrett/Bloomberg/Getty Images) ... “These guys are losing money selling cars.


Tesla electric vehicle regulatory credits explained - CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com › 2021/05/18 › tesla-electric-veh...

May 18, 2021 — Tesla's reliance on so-called regulatory credits to make money has been ... Because Tesla only sells electric cars which come under the ZEV ...

Environmental credits: Tesla's biggest profit center is ... - Fortune

https://fortune.com › 2020/09/30 › tesla-profit-revenue...


Sep. 30, 2020 — Excluding regulatory credits, Tesla is losing money. In the second quarter of 2020, Tesla posted $1.137 billion in “gross profits” in its auto ...


EV sales fell in the U.S. the last few years... the Green New Deal is pushing EV's on the public with full blown subsidies building chargers out, heavy subsidies to the car makers. Your gov't at work !!

[CamaroRSOnt]

Welcome to the gov't "lead the consumer by the nose" NEW GREEN DEAL !! The U.S. gov't is going to decide what you can drive, how much you will pay, how you will heat or cool your home. The Land of the Free, except it is going to cost you a lot !!


Flynn Energy - August 6

Transition

Biden’s goal to make 50% of all cars and light trucks electric by the end of the decade is going to have negative ramifications across the U.S. economy. Not only is impossible to reach his goal, but the plan will also add to greenhouse gas emissions, the supposed reason for this massive $100 billion government cash handout. While union auto makers General Motors Company, Ford Motor Company, and Chrysler parent Stellantis NV were all in attendance at Biden’s presser, Elon Musk and Telsa, the company that made electric vehicles a realistic possibility, was absent. That was extremely telling. This huge cash handout to union automakers is an attempt to win back union votes that were lost by the democrats over the past decade because many union workers realize that the policies of the democratic party did not help them. Under the Obama administration, they lost jobs to countries overseas and they saw their job security fall. Union workers were told that there was no magic wand to wave and get those jobs back, they were gone.


The cost of the Biden plan will be astronomical. Not only the cost of upgrading the power grid but the fact the only way to do those upgrades is with fossil fuels. Wind and solar will never be scalable enough to power millions of electric vehicles. Building a million electric cars will add to greenhouse gas admissions as it takes more fossil fuels to build electric vehicles because of the creation of lithium batteries. It takes more fossil fuels to build an electric car than it does your traditional SUV. Right now, for electric cars to have a net positive on the environment they must be driven for at least 30,000 miles based on US data, yet in some parts of this country and the world it may be more like 100,000 miles driven before there is a net positive on the environment. This may get more complicated as we start to build millions more electric cars that will take millions of lithium-ion batteries.


The auto industry was already embracing movement to more electric vehicles yet never planned to go as big as the Biden plan. The truth is that not one of these big oil car companies would have agreed to Biden’s goal unless the government was handing out money to them as I told Liz Claman yesterday on the Claman Countdown on the Fox Business Network. Not only is the government trying to force people into electric cars that they do not want, they are forcing them into cars that do not have the range or the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. This is going to be a disaster for the economy and taxpayers. It also means higher prices for cars due to the fact that electric cars are much more expensive than their internal combustion engine counterparts.


Zero hedge reported statistics from Automotive News, “noting that EVs were 2.3 times more expensive to service than ICE vehicles after three months of ownership. Analytics firm We Predict compiled the data by looking at roughly 19 million vehicles between the 2016 and 2021 model years. That figure drops to just 1.6 times more expensive after one year, the report noted, as a result of a 77% drop in maintenance costs and a decline in repair costs. The data showed that service techs spend about twice as much time diagnosing problems with EVs as they do with regular gas vehicles. They spend about 1.5 times longer fixing them and the labor rate for repairs was about 1.3 times higher.


There will be billions that will have to be spent on the electric grid to try to make this work. We will need to use more fossil fuels to charge those electric vehicles because wind and solar cannot charge millions of electric vehicles.


The other problem is the Biden administration cracking down on fracking in the United States which is going to make the most logical bridge fuel, natural gas, unaffordable. We have been saying for sometime the fundamentals for natural gas look extremely bullish. We have been telling people to get hedged. Strong global demand and a hot summer have natural gas inventories on track to end up at the lowest level we have seen in over 10 years going into winter. What that means of course is that we could see huge price spikes this winter if we get a colder than normal winter, so be prepared to have a little extra money in your pocketbook because your heating bills are probably going to be a lot higher.


Bloomberg News goes further saying, “The Era of Cheap Natural Gas Ends as Prices Surge by 1,000%: They write that “Natural gas, used to generate electricity and heat homes, was abundant and cheap during much of the last decade amid a boom in supply from the U.S. to Australia. That came crashing to a halt this year as demand drastically outpaced new supply. European gas rates reached a record this week, while deliveries of the liquefied fuel to Asia are near an all-time high for this time of year. With few other options, the world is expected to depend more on cleaner-burning gas as a replacement to coal to help achieve near-term green goals. But as producers curb investments into new supply amid calls from climate-conscious investors and governments, it is becoming apparent that expensive energy is here to stay.”


Of course, it doesn’t have to be that way. The Biden administration’s war against fracking is reducing the world’s best chance to have reasonable natural gas prices. The U.S. has become a major exporter of liquefied natural gas but production has stalled out mainly because of the war against fracking by the Biden administration. While the Biden administration has big dreams about reducing carbon emissions, they refuse to invest in fracking which could provide enough natural gas to replace coal plants across the globe and they also refused to invest in nuclear power which is the other greenhouse gas-free power source. Don’t tell me that wind and solar is carbon-free! Do you know how much carbon it takes to create millions of wind turbines? Not to mention the chemicals used to create solar panels? The Biden administration needs to get adults and real energy people on board that know what they’re doing. The U.S. economy is headed for a disaster unless they get their act together when it comes to energy.


And if you think that Biden’s push to green energy is going to make gasoline prices cheaper, well think again! Gasoline prices are going to go through the roof as investment in fossil fuels is drying up and it’s drying up as we speak. Right now major energy companies are reducing their production. Investment dollars are going into far fetched green energy projects like wind and solar and at the end of the day, we’re going to spend billions in subsidy’s on energy sources that are not going to pan out. Biden lives in a green dream world when it comes to energy and every American is going pay the price.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Careful, I’ve never said marketing won’t help. I’ve said TV commercials won’t help, at least enough to be more profitable

Fair enough.

I'd just like to see GM put some more effort into the Camaro. The LT1, while oddly named, was an effort to get people into a V8 at a reasonable price. Great! Not much since and without anything to talk about the Camaro fades into the background. If they do plan to name their sporty electric car Camaro I think they should also try to sell the version they currently offer.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by CamaroRSOnt

Welcome to the gov't "lead the consumer by the nose" NEW GREEN DEAL !! The U.S. gov't is going to decide what you can drive, how much you will pay, how you will heat or cool your home. The Land of the Free, except it is going to cost you a lot !!

Excellent contribution to the conversation Ontario. Are you worried about the increased cost of owning your Florida condo?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CamaroRSOnt

Don't buy the bullshit that Tesla makes money, they live on subsidies and gov't driven tax credits.... GM goes woke and starts to tell the consumer what they want and I can see another bankruptcy in their future.



Tesla Reports Record Sales, Continues to Lose Money ...

https://www.caranddriver.com › news › teslas-q1-2021-...

Apr. 27, 2021 — The electric automaker said it built and delivered more vehicles in the first three months of 2021 than in any quarter ever before. Tesla said ...


Motor Mouth: Tesla's real business model | Driving

https://driving.ca › features › feature-story › tesla-elon-...

Sep. 29, 2020 — Tesla's "profits" are totally dependent on ZEV credits that might ... As long as he's allowed to continue losing money on every car he ...



Tesla's dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn't come from selling ...

https://www.mercurynews.com › 2021/02/01 › teslas-di...

Feb. 1, 2021 — Tesla posted its first full year of net income in 2020. (Luke Sharrett/Bloomberg/Getty Images) ... “These guys are losing money selling cars.


Tesla electric vehicle regulatory credits explained - CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com › 2021/05/18 › tesla-electric-veh...

May 18, 2021 — Tesla's reliance on so-called regulatory credits to make money has been ... Because Tesla only sells electric cars which come under the ZEV ...

Environmental credits: Tesla's biggest profit center is ... - Fortune

https://fortune.com › 2020/09/30 › tesla-profit-revenue...


Sep. 30, 2020 — Excluding regulatory credits, Tesla is losing money. In the second quarter of 2020, Tesla posted $1.137 billion in “gross profits” in its auto ...


EV sales fell in the U.S. the last few years... the Green New Deal is pushing EV's on the public with full blown subsidies building chargers out, heavy subsidies to the car makers. Your gov't at work !!

All true until the last quarter where Tesla actually made money producing cars for the first time ever. Previously profit was attained through selling credits, primarily to Stallantis.

However, the OEMs are not getting subsidies to build or convert to EV. Buyers get the $7,500 tax credit however.

Many OEMs, including GM and VW are investing heavily in charging infrastructure without subsidies from the government.

So some of what you are saying is true, but not all.

[osubuckeye]

I guess Camaro will my be last perfomance car if this comes to past. As long as Ford makes the non EV Mustang that will be the car to replace my current Camaro.

[RealG]

Could GM in some kind of crazy Cabal to make a profit and money make the Camaro and a four-door EV?