[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Are you high, or do you just have no idea what you're talking about? Do you honestly think GM doesn't do as much testing and "pre-production analysis" (whatever that means) as Polaris? Really!? The quantity and severity of OEM testing these days would absolutely boggle your mind. The fact in this case is that a supplier provided a bad batch of springs. It happens. I'm sure GM has some remedy with the supplier. GM is fixing the motors that break. It's going to be a very, very small percentage of vehicles that are affected. This is nothing.

Mass Squared, that’s cute...

Yet potentially hundreds or thousands of engines with faulty valve springs managed to make it through QC?

I know Polaris tests EVERY engine that leaves their production facility prior to installation. Does GM? If no then, yes, that QC is superior regardless of quantity.

The reality is if only a small portion of the heads, supplied by a now known specific batch, affected would have been tested prior to assembly as it would have easily been detected prior to have ever been installed on an engine. Yet here we are.

Or perhaps you are the one that has no concept of how valve spring seat pressure, open pressure @ max lift & subsequent durability can be easily evaluated by nominal test equipment available to manufacturers. You do know there is equipment that does that, right? I mean because aftermarket valve train suppliers do this in batches, & they’re small peanuts compared to GM.

Or maybe you’re a corporate troll?

[Pappy2020]

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That's not how businesses work.

You’re right. It’s how they go bankrupt.

Situations like this make people wish Bush would have told GM and then Chrysler holdings to go pound salt when they begged for a loan.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by Thill444

If you do mod for power just budget for some aftermarket valve springs

It will be a good while before mods. Once i get past 3k miles then we are good to go on mods. Any new car- truck i have bought seemed to run stronger once past a few 1000 miles.

If my motor goes BOOM be ready for a thread.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

Any idea how the cylinder wall looked?

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

It will be a good while before mods. Once i get past 3k miles then we are good to go on mods. Any new car- truck i have bought seemed to run stronger once past a few 1000 miles.

If my motor goes BOOM be ready for a thread.

I dunno man, a few hundred bucks, if you already have an air compressor, for valve springs, TDC stop, hand spring compressor & an afternoon would solve the problem for good.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

Sorry to hear they rebuilt instead of replace. I wouldn’t be happy with that either. Definitely not at 200 miles.

[ItsChristianInHD]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

Hell ****ing no. Make them pay for a new engine.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

& you really shouldn’t unless you are willing to shell out some big bucks.

Then again this is a well known issue & no way a CoL would hold up their claim of a voided warranty for broken springs if you have some minor bolt-ons. They’d absolutely get ass raped by the equivalent of a 800 lb gorilla in dense jungle where no one would hear their cries for help.

A part of me really wants to see them nailed to the wall for a retroactive QC that really could have been caught by said QC testing.

Anecdotal comparison is an employee of mine who is a snowmobile racer that formerly worked at Polaris. He is very knowledgeable & had a position testing engines as they ran out of engine testing. He told me he experienced a high number of engine issues during a period of time & sent the engines back to be fixed tagging what he identified as an an issue. They labeled each engine with a corresponding tag that noted his complaint. He would re-run them post-repair to see if the issue was rectified & most times it would, but a few weren’t fixed.

If GM did 1/4 of that testing & pre-production analysis we wouldn’t be seeing near the failure rate of current because they would have caught the issue early before these engines made their way into vehicles. It’s not like they didn’t have months due to “OMG COVID” during that time to thoroughly test the engines.

Now they are playing catch-up & deserve to lose money because of it.

Then again, contracts with suppliers being what they are, the contractors for the springs should be liable. That is unless they were using a Chinese supplier, then, in that case let them stew in their juices for being stupid.

There are three very big problems with the correlation you're making using Polaris...

1) A sled today costs $12,000-$15,000 (most models, there are a couple of exceptions). Think about that for a minute. Based purely on the number of parts and what goes into assembling a machine, how do they justify that price tag? And parts of what they use in the powertrain is used in other products as well, so it isn't a lack of volume on the main pieces...

2) The sheer volume of vehicles that GM builds outstrips what Polaris does on any level. The massively higher volume of what GM is building simply couldn't be inspected, repaired, and re-inspected the way you're describing.

3) Polaris motors for their sleds are two-stroke and immensely simpler mechanically than what goes into cars today. Testing is much quicker and easier to do, especially the majority of it is based on compression and leak-down testing.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

Dealerships do not build motors for a living. GM has entire plants (or sections of plants) and staff that do nothing BUT build motors. GM needs to, at a minimum, significantly extend your powertrain warranty due to this issue. I would be pressing them for either a full bumper-to-bumper warranty extension or talking with my State's Attorney General office about forcing GM to buy the car back.

While I completely understand that warranties exist to handle defects like this, they are not expected to kick in as you basically "drive the vehicle off of the lot." The relative instantaneous failure of the car demonstrates that there was a major issue at time of assembly and GM's only remedy in this situation should be to buy the car back from you.

Look into your state's Lemon Law details as well to see if it covers any sort of mileage restriction that could force GM's hand to buy the car back.

[slimjim2525]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

Mass Squared, that’s cute...

Yet potentially hundreds or thousands of engines with faulty valve springs managed to make it through QC?

I know Polaris tests EVERY engine that leaves their production facility prior to installation. Does GM? If no then, yes, that QC is superior regardless of quantity.

The reality is if only a small portion of the heads, supplied by a now known specific batch, affected would have been tested prior to assembly as it would have easily been detected prior to have ever been installed on an engine. Yet here we are.

Or perhaps you are the one that has no concept of how valve spring seat pressure, open pressure @ max lift & subsequent durability can be easily evaluated by nominal test equipment available to manufacturers. You do know there is equipment that does that, right? I mean because aftermarket valve train suppliers do this in batches, & they’re small peanuts compared to GM.

Or maybe you’re a corporate troll?

Sorry man. After being in the off road motorsports arena for 40 plus years, Polaris quality is crap. Their idea of testing is to design, make it, and put it on the market and let the dealers fix them as they break. Total junk, up and down their line up. There's a reason you won't see a Polaris snowmobile in northern Quebec. If you have a break down you're literally 50 to 100 miles from anything. Now you're screwed.


Back on topic. I would be very nervous owning a new 6.2 liter. what if you're at 37k miles and then you have an issue. Now you're on your own dime. This sucks, glad I have a 19. Was gonna upgrade but not now.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by slimjim2525

Sorry man. After being in the off road motorsports arena for 40 plus years, Polaris quality is crap. Their idea of testing is to design, make it, and put it on the market and let the dealers fix them as they break. Total junk, up and down their line up. There's a reason you won't see a Polaris snowmobile in northern Quebec. If you have a break down you're literally 50 to 100 miles from anything. Now you're screwed.


Back on topic. I would be very nervous owning a new 6.2 liter. what if you're at 37k miles and then you have an issue. Now you're on your own dime. This sucks, glad I have a 19. Was gonna upgrade but not now.

What makes you think your car is bulletproof? What makes you believe that this issue isn't rectified in current and future builds?

Problems can arise anywhere, at any time. And sometimes they take a very long time to recognize and correct. It seems that this issue was the result of supplies being used to make the springs, it was caught fairly early, and is being corrected as it is found to be an actual problem "in the wild." GM is not still building this motor with the bad parts (that they are aware of)....

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Excusing this situation like that is not acceptable. I thank God I’m not involved in this issue and totally feel for those who are. They have every right to be upset at GM for how the company is handling this mess and it’s indicative of the complacency and complete lack of quality control and customer support that contributed to their bankruptcy. The bottom line is that it’s General Motors name on the car no matter who is responsible for the defective springs, and knowing the batch of faulty springs were made, the proper way to conduct business and take care of the customers is to replace every spring in every engine built with the batch in question before failure occurs.

GM makes cool cars but their quality and customer service has always sucked. If it wasn’t for the Camaro I’d have never come back to GM after the issues I had with my Beretta that made me buy nothing but Honda’s for the last 23 years. So just because I own and love my Camaro does not mean I’m a blind GM fan boy.

Take off the blinders.

Waiting for a valve to break, thus causing complete engine destruction, is NOT the proper approach. Let’s leave our customer stranded on the highway? Let’s make sure the entire engine is destroyed then take two months for a full replacement? No. Absolutely not.

“It happens” is NOT an excuse.

I couldn't agree more! Our automotive paths are almost identical and for the exact same reasons. The ONLY reason I currently drive a GM product is due to wanting my Camaro SS. If she starts giving me all sorts of problems, I'll dump her and move-on. What some aren't understanding here is it's not that this issue exists, it's the way GM is handling the issue. I've had some minor issues with the imports that I've driven but the way those manufacturers handled those issues was key. GM, and other American auto companies, make you feel important and cared for before and during the purchase. After that, not so much.

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

This is TOTALLY unacceptable! I feel so bad for you!

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Pappy2020

Well....I got my car back from the dealer.They took my brand new camaro lt1 and rebuilt the engine in stead of replacing the motor.after 220 miles on the car #4 cylinder is toast,valve spring broke and valve broke the piston.Not happy with GM decision to rebuild motor vs.replace motor.(only 220 miles).So I filed a complaint.Not good customer relationship.

Well, at least now you'll get a new engine.

Did they replace ALL of the valve springs or just the broken one? It was my understanding that on performance engines like LT1, they were supposed to replace all of them if there was no engine damage. I could be wrong though.