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Old 03-31-2021, 02:05 PM   #43
Z OH 6

 
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Originally Posted by ZX-10R View Post
You truly are a hyper sensitive, annoying little dickhead. I mentioned Elite and you completely lose your shit, who cares? CLEARLY you are extremely defensive about anything *you* are not using



Huh? I'm just commenting on how well it performs, how is that shoving anything down your throat? No one is forcing you to click this thread. Sail off a cliff.
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:05 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
Yes 800, no meth or aux pump. Just 32% cam lobe and 93.
Well, 32% cam lobe is added fuel. Just clarifying.
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Evansa22 View Post
Z OH 6 makes a good point, my goal is 700 whp. I shouldn't need a bigger blower to get close. Along with running some ethanol, and the ported blower, Temps should be lower and like has been said its $1200-1400 for the porting. To each their own and spend your money how you want but for me and my power goal it makes sense. Every situation is different and if you want to run a bigger blower and have the cash then more power to you.
Exactly, some people get caught up in bigger is better mentality. The 2650R is a fine blower don't get me wrong, the best available at the moment for these cars. If I was driving an LT1 powered vehicle and I was looking to add a blower, I would probably buy a 2650R since I'm starting from scratch with no blower, however since these cars already have a blower and for the cost of porting it and the HP gains you get from it, its a no brainer for most builds. If a ported OEM blower was closer to $2500-3000, then it might be a very difficult decision and might be worth it to splurge for a 2650R.For those people looking to add a cam and additional fueling, its also worth going to a 2650R in the long run. Most people are happy with these cars in stock trim and those that do upgrade them typically don't go all out. You can achieve 700whp easily with the OEM ported blower without going into the engine and that's MORE than enough for most people without having to spend $7k for a 2650R blower.
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:24 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Z OH 6 View Post
You can achieve 700whp easily with the OEM ported blower without going into the engine and that's MORE than enough for most people without having to spend $7k for a 2650R blower.
Having been here numerous times before, I chose to come at it from the other direction by first doing a Phase I custom valve train and leaving the SC and TB stock, and enjoying the car for a year; and then doing a phase II as shown in my sig. My primary thought being by doing the valve train first only the short block (block and rotating assembly) would limit me in the future. I have zero intention of going to a custom short block, unless I break this one.
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Kong ported blower/snout, NW 103mm ported TB, - FII blower spacer plates & thermal reduction blanket, - Griptec snout pulley 2.4", MMS Mild catch can - ADM ultra large intercooler coolant reservoir, - DSX low side pump - 91 and 100 octane tunes
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Old 03-31-2021, 05:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Z OH 6 View Post
since these cars already have a blower and for the cost of porting it and the HP gains you get from it, its a no brainer for most builds.
The stock blower spins too fast to make decent boost and generates a ton of heat.

Chevy messed up, plain and simple. I know they were going after throttle response but they should have known the ZL1 would be going up against musclecars like the Hellcat (or even an M5) and 550 rwhp doesn't do it. A ZR1 blower (or similar) was the right choice.

Quote:
You can achieve 700whp easily with the OEM ported blower without going into the engine and that's MORE than enough for most people without having to spend $7k for a 2650R blower.
Yeah but how much do you have in your ported blower and all supporting mods - and then the stock blower is pretty much tapped out

If you're going to spend this kind of money, why not do it right
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Old 03-31-2021, 05:30 PM   #48
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I’m doing full bolt ons for 700whp on stock pulley’s. I road course track the car so I don’t want to spin it faster and I’m doing some cooling mods. When I get tired of that I’ll do the 2650 and all of my current mods except the ported blower will be used in conjunction with the 2650, so very little “wasted” money. The 2650 will still benefit from the headers, catback, CAI, flex fuel and throttle body.
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Old 03-31-2021, 06:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ZX-10R View Post
The stock blower spins too fast to make decent boost and generates a ton of heat.

Chevy messed up, plain and simple. I know they were going after throttle response but they should have known the ZL1 would be going up against musclecars like the Hellcat (or even an M5) and 550 rwhp doesn't do it. A ZR1 blower (or similar) was the right choice.



Yeah but how much do you have in your ported blower and all supporting mods - and then the stock blower is pretty much tapped out

If you're going to spend this kind of money, why not do it right
They really didn’t mess up. They had to fit the engine in the C7, so they used a smalller blower that fit. They are also not going to redesign and change the engine just for the Camaro, hence using the same motor.
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Old 03-31-2021, 06:32 PM   #50
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So this discussion is just going back and forward. Let's just say some guys have enough power with the ported blower and some like lower IAT MORE power MORE $$$. Moral of the thread is it cost money to make big power reliably.

My route in the beginning was going to be port blower and be done, but then I thought and spoke to a reliable tuner which is big on this forum and he doesn't like spinning are little blower no faster then it is already.

So my path changed I'm doing a JRE 125 package then a year later I will sell my OEM blower and get the 2650R.

Again I believe you have to pick your poison, if your road racing don't spin blower faster and wait a get a 2650 if your on the strip and have a little more forgiveness as you can cool your car a little longer. Obviously not good if your doing back to back pulls.

My opinion not saying either way is a wrong decision.
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Old 03-31-2021, 06:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1 View Post
My opinion not saying either way is a wrong decision.
Right. Every owner has a different vision of where he/she wants to go or might go with the car. Resale is an issue too. More buyers will want the Eaton than the Maggie.
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HPE Phase I Mods (7/20)
10% pulley - Custom valve train/PP heads - Kooks Long tubes, green cats - Custom heat exchangers, RotoFab

Phase II Mods (5/21)
Kong ported blower/snout, NW 103mm ported TB, - FII blower spacer plates & thermal reduction blanket, - Griptec snout pulley 2.4", MMS Mild catch can - ADM ultra large intercooler coolant reservoir, - DSX low side pump - 91 and 100 octane tunes
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1 View Post
So this discussion is just going back and forward. Let's just say some guys have enough power with the ported blower and some like lower IAT MORE power MORE $$$. Moral of the thread is it cost money to make big power reliably.

My route in the beginning was going to be port blower and be done, but then I thought and spoke to a reliable tuner which is big on this forum and he doesn't like spinning are little blower no faster then it is already.

So my path changed I'm doing a JRE 125 package then a year later I will sell my OEM blower and get the 2650R.

Again I believe you have to pick your poison, if your road racing don't spin blower faster and wait a get a 2650 if your on the strip and have a little more forgiveness as you can cool your car a little longer. Obviously not good if your doing back to back pulls.

My opinion not saying either way is a wrong decision.
You can make gains by porting the blower and re-tune without changing the pulley and still spinning it at OEM speed. Should see lower IATs with a ported blower and stock pulley’s IMO.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by CW3SF View Post
You can make gains by porting the blower and re-tune without changing the pulley and still spinning it at OEM speed. Should see lower IATs with a ported blower and stock pulley’s IMO.
What would be the gain for just porting the blower. Yes IAT might be lower but it would be interesting to see.what gains just from porting.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1 View Post
What would be the gain for just porting the blower. Yes IAT might be lower but it would be interesting to see.what gains just from porting.
In a few months I’ll let know know exactly how many rwhp that’s worth LOL. It’ll be moving more air, so with proper tuning there WILL be gains.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1 View Post
What would be the gain for just porting the blower. Yes IAT might be lower but it would be interesting to see.what gains just from porting.
The guys doing the porting say 40whp, which is probably a bit low, depending
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HPE Phase I Mods (7/20)
10% pulley - Custom valve train/PP heads - Kooks Long tubes, green cats - Custom heat exchangers, RotoFab

Phase II Mods (5/21)
Kong ported blower/snout, NW 103mm ported TB, - FII blower spacer plates & thermal reduction blanket, - Griptec snout pulley 2.4", MMS Mild catch can - ADM ultra large intercooler coolant reservoir, - DSX low side pump - 91 and 100 octane tunes
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Old 04-01-2021, 06:50 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-10R View Post
The stock blower spins too fast to make decent boost and generates a ton of heat.

Chevy messed up, plain and simple. I know they were going after throttle response but they should have known the ZL1 would be going up against musclecars like the Hellcat (or even an M5) and 550 rwhp doesn't do it. A ZR1 blower (or similar) was the right choice.



Yeah but how much do you have in your ported blower and all supporting mods - and then the stock blower is pretty much tapped out

If you're going to spend this kind of money, why not do it right
Chevy didn't mess up anything, they did exactly what they set out to do. Auto manufacturers don't make mistakes like this. They have an engineering design team that is given a set of parameters and they design to those parameters. Chevy wasn't going after throttle response, they had a power target of 650hp most likely and achieved it with a relatively smaller blower, same could be said with the tiny throttle body. Chevy was not the least bit concerned about having consumers try to extract 1000hp out of the LT4 design to compete with anyone. Arguably, going with DI instead of multiport injection is more prohibitive to maximum power development than the 1.7L blower. The Hellcat has a 2.4L blower and the Hellcat Redeye has a 2.7L blower and neither of those cars lack throttle response so it isn't the blower size that's determining that.

Blowers do have an efficiency range where they operate optimally. When you're below or above that efficiency range the blower performance suffers. A good example is the 4.5L Whipple available for the Hellcat, its a massive blower and unless you're really spinning it fast, it suffers from being inefficient at lower boost and thus doesn't generate enough power for its size. The OEM 1.7L blower doesn't have a lot of overhead left in it but it does have some.

I try not to push Vengeance Racing all the time on this forum, but I do trust their opinions due to the fact that they have built some of the quickest cars in the country and currently have the quickest 6th Gen ZL1 in the country. I've had extensive conversations with them about upgrade paths. If you look at their upgrades for these cars, they don't even have a package with the 2650R without going with a cam and additional fueling. The reason for this is that you can still get quite a bit of out of the OEM blower when ported with a lower crank pulley and heat exchanger upgrades before needing to go with a 2650R and most people are fine with that level of performance. if you desire more, then you're pretty much forced to upgrade the cam for fueling which is why their 2650R package includes a cam. Don't get me wrong, if you go in and request for them to install a 2650R, they will do it but there's little point in it without fueling upgrades. My point is that they have packages intelligently laid out so that your upgrade path makes sense for the power level you're trying to achieve at a reasonable cost. They've told me the 2650R is the way to go in the end, no question about it, but they will also push their stage 3 cam which isn't for everyone.

I have $1275 in the stock ported blower, there are no supporting mods other than NW 103MM TB which you're going to want for a 2650R, and a Rotofab Big Gulp which you're going to want for a 2650R. I suppose you could add the AFCO heat exchangers for $1200 but they aren't really necessary unless you're going really aggressive on the lower pulley which I did as part of their stage 3 package, and even if I decided down the road to upgrade to a 2650R, the upgraded heat exchangers would still be of benefit so no loss there.
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Last edited by Z OH 6; 04-01-2021 at 09:49 AM.
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