[ZarusSS]

Originally Posted by Ruebernard

Apples to oranges comparison. Nissan is a foreign company doing business here. They chose the south to do business in because of taxation and absence of labor unions. Nissan treats it’s employees as many Japanese companies do which includes health care and other benefits.

Unions were formed here because of corporate American practices. So, what did GM do with the hundreds of millions in tax breaks given to corporate America by mr. trump? Probably didn’t reinvest it in employee benefits.

You’re fortunate that you have all those benefits, but trust me, it wasn’t because of your god given talents. If that were the case, many more Americans would have benefits. It’s the call of the employer on how it chooses to treat it’s front line workers. GM is one of those companies where a union is necessary to make sure people are treated fairly.

The system is screwed up when multi billion dollar companies based here are directing their employees on how to get federal/state assistance to provide basic Heath care and financial assistance.

Flame away!

[detltu]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Striking is part of the process. If you don't like unions at least try not to be dicks about the individual members. As others have stated they are mostly hard working people just trying to make a living.

They will work it out some how because the alternative is not acceptable to either party.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

You'd be amazed if you worked in a refinery and saw all the things we fixed from engineers who told us it would work better like this or that.


Or how many times they say this will work better, yet never bother to ask those who actually do the work(when the last "engineer" did the same thing).

No, I wouldn't, really. Often times, those who are on the front lines are the ones who see issues nobody thought of and are likely to have a good idea of how to fix them. I've seen it happen. However, this is the case regardless of whether there is a union or not. But, there are engineers and there are engineers. Some of them have little or no real-world experience and that fact shows up in whatever they design, as you have seen. There needs to be a feedback loop in order for quality to improve, and front line people can offer real value this way that should never be underestimated.

In the case of the engineer in my story, he was a guy who spent years getting his hands dirty, so he was one of the good ones. He also had detailed firsthand knowledge about how the union crew had performed on various types of tasks before, so his caution was warranted. None of this stuff was "normal" or "run of the mill" - each and every thing was a unique "one off" design, so there was never an opportunity for repetition to improve training.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Expunge

My only direct experience with unions was when I was on an I.T. job in NYC back around '99. First I was not allowed to even touch any IT equipment or they would file a grievance. Second they made a 2 day job into a 3 day job and almost a 4 day job. Third they went behind my back after I told them no to a question and they asked someone else who was not informed of situation who said yes and proceeded to do the additional work.

Yeah, you can put me in the 'not a fan of unions' category.

Oh yeah.. and when you go through airports, remember you have unionized security idiots manning the x-ray machines.

Same situation.

On deadline, needed IT work on some computers, IT guy is in sight, had to call an 800 number and it was handled the next day. By that time I simply handled it so my subordinate was able to meet the deadline.

Another:

This is now live news TV, ABC News.

Guy is paid to push a button for the graphics to go up. Guy falls asleep, assistant Director goes to them after multiple calls to the PA who babysits the button guy. So she reaches over and presses the button to ensure the graphic goes up while this union guy is asleep. Seamless.

Guy wakes up after, files a complaint and the PA is fired.

Unions have no business in the private sector (government), but the few private companies who still endure this, are at their mercy, unable to innovate, unable to compete.

When was the last time Toyota had to be bailed out by a government?

$100K per year plus a huge pension to screw in a light bulb.

So, check me off on the whole union thing, as they are corrupt, they provide zero in the way of any benefits to the companies mission and they could care less if the company can survive.

So all the best on your 1920's style "strike"

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Emoto

No, I wouldn't, really. Often times, those who are on the front lines are the ones who see issues nobody thought of and are likely to have a good idea of how to fix them. I've seen it happen. However, this is the case regardless of whether there is a union or not. But, there are engineers and there are engineers. Some of them have little or no real-world experience and that fact shows up in whatever they design, as you have seen. There needs to be a feedback loop in order for quality to improve, and front line people can offer real value this way that should never be underestimated.

Sounds like the same can be said about architects lol.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Sounds like the same can be said about architects lol.

Absolutely!!! Ask any carpenter who has tried to follow a blueprint.

[Petrol Head]

What's really stopping GM from simply hiring anyone who wants to work back as non-union? You want a job stamping door skins all day? Here's $16.50/hr, non- union, whether you worked for GM for 25 years or 1 year. Your pay will now be commensurate with your job performance, attendance, and skill level. So the UAW files a lawsuit...... they don't have that kind of muscle anymore.

[ZarusSS]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

What's really stopping GM from simply hiring anyone who wants to work back as non-union? You want a job stamping door skins all day? Here's $16.50/hr, non- union, whether you worked for GM for 25 years or 1 year. Your pay will now be commensurate with your job performance, attendance, and skill level. So the UAW files a lawsuit...... they don't have that kind of muscle anymore.

You're part of the problem. God forbid people want to raise a family with good benefits when a corporation makes 10.8 billion dollars in profit in 2018. Yes billion!!! I hope you're a 1%'er because if not you're on the wrong side buddy

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

You're part of the problem. God forbid people want to raise a family with good benefits when a corporation makes 10.8 billion dollars in profit in 2018. Yes billion!!! I hope you're a 1%'er because if not you're on the wrong side buddy

People post this then complain about the price of new vehicles.

[DC5]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

You're part of the problem. God forbid people want to raise a family with good benefits when a corporation makes 10.8 billion dollars in profit in 2018. Yes billion!!! I hope you're a 1%'er because if not you're on the wrong side buddy

How much a company earns in profit is largely irrelevant to how much its employees should earn. How much an employee earns should be a function of his/her education, experience, and skill. Many factory jobs involve repetitive labor that requires only a low to moderate skill set. One should not demand or expect to earn $35+ per hour (plus benefits) for a position that should reasonably pay $15 to $20 per hour depending on its location.

[DC5]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

People post this then complain about the price of new vehicles.

Precisely.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

You're part of the problem. God forbid people want to raise a family with good benefits when a corporation makes 10.8 billion dollars in profit in 2018. Yes billion!!! I hope you're a 1%'er because if not you're on the wrong side buddy

On a 147 billion of revenue... 10.8 pre tax profits is not that impressive. Maybe they need to save for a rainy day..

[ZarusSS]

Originally Posted by DC5

How much a company earns in profit is largely irrelevant to how much its employees should earn. How much an employee earns should be a function of his/her education, experience, and skill. Many factory jobs involve repetitive labor that requires only a low to moderate skill set. One should not demand or expect to earn $35+ per hour (plus benefits) for a position that should reasonably pay $15 to $20 per hour depending on its location.

Sorry I didn't realize you were the expert in what employees should earn per hour according to their job. Why not just have the mexicans work for GM at $10 an hour. After all who wouldn't want to drive a car built by low skilled or moderate workers.

[orange devil]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

Sorry I didn't realize you were the expert in what employees should earn per hour according to their job. Why not just have the mexicans work for GM at $10 an hour. After all who wouldn't want to drive a car built by low skilled or moderate workers.

Hey there's a lot of good Toyota's out there that are pretty reliable made in Mexico.. Why you getting all racist and s*** now?