[OminouSS]

Believe it or not the law is on the consumers side. Magnussen/Moss virtually guarantees you victory if the dealer denies you a seat stiching warranty just because they see you fooled with the programming of the CPU. However, where the process fails the consumer is when some dumbass service manager sends you away claiming warranty infraction and won't fix you seats, leaving you to seek adjudication in court.

I have to agree that if you're going to mod your car significantly then you need to be able to afford a remedy on your own while the process plays out. Now if you added 100hp to the rear wheels and your eLSD goes out, then you best not be screaming foul when the service monkey says 'nope' on a warranty repair. Gotta pay to play.

[flatrockguy]

And remember if you have to go to court and fight it you are going against GM, that has a large highly paid staff that will keep it in court system until you run out of many or give up.

I just accept the fact that if it isn't covered I pay for it.

[NB2017ZL1]

Great Vid from Lethalhammer!

https://youtu.be/hUAEQEJ2PXo

[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by NB2017ZL1

Great Vid from Lethalhammer!

https://youtu.be/hUAEQEJ2PXo

Good content to get the conversation going. A bit diatribe-ish but that happens in this world of keyboard bashing.

Something not discussed though is the specific language in the million page warranty... Accessories. Most factory warranties have pages of exclusions when it comes to failures potentially caused by accessories. The video eludes to a very general safety net if you modify your car with a certified GM accessory. While I agree that the likelihood of GM to honor your warranty if you mod your car with their kits is very likely, I also think I is a bit presumptuous to say it is black n white. Usually, the warranty language is intentionally vague to suggest that all accessories, regardless of the brand sticker on it, could be cause for warranty denial. I'm not saying I know and I'm not saying it is likely to happen but I'd bet a steak dinner that GM car division could refuse to honor the warranty from the GM accessory division if their product caused a catastrophic failure.

It happens in the sport bike and off-road industries occasionally.

At least it's something to talk about as we pass time awaiting the greatest production track car under $100k in history of mankind.

[crabman]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

Believe it or not the law is on the consumers side. Magnussen/Moss virtually guarantees you victory if the dealer denies you a seat stiching warranty just because they see you fooled with the programming of the CPU. However, where the process fails the consumer is when some dumbass service manager sends you away claiming warranty infraction and won't fix you seats, leaving you to seek adjudication in court.

I have to agree that if you're going to mod your car significantly then you need to be able to afford a remedy on your own while the process plays out. Now if you added 100hp to the rear wheels and your eLSD goes out, then you best not be screaming foul when the service monkey says 'nope' on a warranty repair. Gotta pay to play.

There is so much wrong in this thread I'm not quite sure where to start but I'm going to begin here. I have pursued an M&M action to its conclusion, keep that in mind when you read the following comments.

First of all the dealer is not in possession of your warranty, GM would have that distinction. As GMs agent the dealer is authorized to do some warranty work without oversight, other warranty work must be ok'ed by a regional rep. To my knowledge all OEM car makers use a similar system. For certain I know that GM, Ford, Chrysler, BMW, Merc, Porsche, have such a system in place.

When will that regional rep come in? When the repair is expensive. As an example the dealer can fix a broken power mirror on their own. They cannot get parts or reimbursed for labor on an engine, trans, etc. until that regional rep comes in and approves the work.

Who is this rep and what does he do? He works for Corporate, his job is to guard the gate. He is well trained and has no mercy, he does not sell cars, does not care how good a customer you are, you can't negotiate with him.

So how does it work where the rubber meets the road? Lets say you installed a shiny new set of headers. You're out having a little fun and you pop your trans after which the car gets towed to a dealership. They cant order a new trans or get reimbursed for the labor working on it till a regional rep comes in to approve it. When he comes in he declines your coverage based on the fact that you have installed long tubes. The reasoning will be that you have altered the power level of the engine thereby changing the car from what they sold you into a configuration they did not sell you and they are not obligated to provide warranty for something that they did not sell you. This is a common scenario, my attorney told me in this case they will show a range of power for that engine stock and if your cars modifications exceeds the max of that range you're sunk. This will hold up.

So about that M&M act. It does have language which says that the OEM cannot deny warranty unless a modification causes or contributes to the issue. The way it works in the real world is however quite different. Lets say again that your long tubes have led to a loss of coverage for some part in the driveline, it doesn't matter what. They way you will know this is when the service adviser calls up and tells you that the mean old rep has denied you. He is such a jerk. They are very sorry but they cant do anything unless he approves the work and he has refused it. You might think you're a good customer so surely the dealer will buy it on their dime and provide the labor gratis. If so you are probably wrong, very few of us are a good enough customers for the dealer to what to come out of pocket for 5, 10, 20k. So, having reached that point you drive yourself down to the dealership in your other car and you jump up and down screaming M&M act at the top of your lungs. Means nothing. The dealership was never in possession of your warranty and nothing you can say or do will get the work done at that time. You can come out of pocket or have the car towed home and begin what can be a very long process.

About that process... It varies by state so I don't want to be too specific here but you can end up in court, arbitration, it could be settled before that in the near term. You really need to get in front of an attorney (which I am not) to get an accurate picture of what you are up against. If you go the distance it will not be cheap, the M&M act does provide provisions for you to ask for fees but does not guarantee them even if you win. I won and did not get my fees. People also think they have to prove something based on its language but the way as it plays out in the real world is quite the opposite. Your warranty has already been denied and to get it back you are going to be going up against a whole stack of graphs, charts, and other information which you must refute with your own or you lose. In other words you must prove your are innocent because you walk in the door guilty, when you think about it you warrant has already been denied up to that point based on your guilt and you are trying to get it back by proving you're innocent. That is the real world of it.

A couple other tidbits, they cant void your warranty in total outside of a few specific cases that don't apply to modifications such as we do. Odo tampering, salvage title, a few others I don't remember. They can deny it case by case or with power adders void the drivetrain warranty. All other coverage stays in effect, they will fix the power mirrors and so on despite your headers, blower, etc.

I would like to add here that I'm a modder, I'm not preaching at anyone. The rule on corvetteforum (and many other forums) is if you want to mod you should be financially capable of and prepared to be your own warranty station if things go wrong. Chances are they wont, it isn't a matter of getting lucky, for most people the mods will be modest and they probably wont have an issue. Its more a matter of being able to step up to the plate if you're the poor sucker that gets unlucky.

I've met one of these GM reps with my first C6. It was early in ownership and I was getting one of my free oil changes when they noticed there was an o-ring leaking off a sender toward the bottom of the oil pan. They brought me into the bay to show me and that was when the regional rep who was there on another matter walked over and looked at it. Didn't say anything about the long tubes just inches away and clearly showing as we all chatted about what appeared to be an obvious factory defect, they fixed it without a word said about warranty. The car was never flagged as people talk about if a rep sees your headers or other mods but I suspect the outcome would have been quite different if the trans was explodified. It appears to me that these guys aren't necessarily evil and employee at least some judgement.

[flatrockguy]

I agree with Crabman, as I do not think Regional reps are evil, they are doing their jobs. They are there to protect GM from spending money on warranty that is not warranted. I can't blame them. I know if it was my business and money, I would want someone to protect my interests.

[KLR ZL1]

The only way the vehicle manufacturer will warranty a manufactured part from their parts department, is if it is installed by a tech at the dealership. I have asked in the past about this. Even if it is a part installed under an extended warranty. My wife's Saturn had a tranny replaced under the extended warranty and since we brought it to a dealership for the repairs GM gave a 36/36 warranty on the tranny. So any aftermarket part installed will void the warranty on any coonected part on that system ie catch cans. We have already seen that a catch can has voided a engine failure warranty claim. So I would go talk to the service manager at your prefered dealer. There are some dealers that are mod friendly. Most are not.

[crabman]

No such thing as a mod friendly dealership when it comes to expensive parts because they can't order them without permission from a rep. You did not read the thread.

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by KLR ZL1

The only way the vehicle manufacturer will warranty a manufactured part from their parts department, is if it is installed by a tech at the dealership.

Right, and it has to be an authorized GM product a well.

[OminouSS]

I don't think I suggested anything counter to your point Crabman, but maybe you're speaking generically. I do have a question for you as it seems you have first hand experience on the litigation side. Can a service manager deny a warranty repair based on evidence s/he observes or must a GM rep make that call?

[crabman]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

I don't think I suggested anything counter to your point Crabman, but maybe you're speaking generically. I do have a question for you as it seems you have first hand experience on the litigation side. Can a service manager deny a warranty repair based on evidence s/he observes or must a GM rep make that call?

I don't know. I am not an attorney and I have only the one experience which gives me the general information I shared above but leaves me far from expert. A service manager denied and then later a Chrysler rep came in and looked at my truck. Whether the latter step was required I cant say and I'm not sure if it would apply across differing brands. You cant know what you're up against without getting legal advice from an attorney experienced in this type of litigation. If previous cases closely addresses your situation you have some hope of derailing the train early before things get rolling or will know that you have little hope and should let it go. If not you have no choice but to choose between the paths available in your state to make your argument.

What I was referring to is that a mod friendly dealer is good in many respects but they do not have any say when it comes to the pricey stuff. The dealership cant order parts or get paid for labor without an OK from one of these reps which leaves their mod friendliness or lack of the same, moot. You cannot rely on them to cover you no matter how mod friendly.

My purpose in posting was to try and get people to understand that in the real world the M&M act isn't so helpful as many think and to dispel the misconception that the dealership can take care of you when things get ugly which isn't true. If you browse these car forums as I do you occasionally see some folks who took a big hit. On the M3 forums for instance one fellow blew a motor, if I recall correctly the replacement was 25k. He didn't have it and the car sat two years during which he had to make his car payment on it trying to save up the money to pay for the motor because he couldn't sell the car. With what he owed and the cost of the motor the car was worth less than the payoff. Not a good place to be. It's the most extreme case I have come across and I think its very unlikely. Move the concept here, imagine the cost of a motor, if a person couldn't afford to fix his car with that blown motor should he/she perhaps not make that mod? That's for that person to decide but they should go into with their eyes open and without any misconceptions about the situation if things go bad.

[mlee]

Thank you Crabman for the post of the year!!!.... you are dead on.

And for the Camaro guys... Straight from Al O. If you mod your engine in any way your powertrain warranty is void. This includes CAIs and catch cans. Track your car all day long and the warranty applies as long as nothing is done to it.

And he really means nothing. What the dealer does is a different story, but that's the line from the top and always has been. We've just been sort of immune to it and lucky in some cases.

[Artos]

Does GM / Camaro have any history of offering certified / covered performance parts??

I know when I was researching parts for the Hemi, several posted they went with the Dodge CAI simply due to the concerns listed.

I appreciate the replies...the thread has been informative & helpful.

[HyperBlue]

Originally Posted by mlee

Track your car all day long and the warranty applies as long as nothing is done to it.

And he really means nothing.

Racing brake fluid and track pads too? I want a 1LE mainly because I don't need to modify it at all to be a capable track car, with the exception of brake cooling, fluid and pads. Hopefully that wouldn't cause a warranty void situation for a factory "track" car.