[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

The Vette came out with DCT and turned off some. I'm at the age and the stock performance level that if I buy a C8, it will be the base with all season tires and DCT or for what Jane 6 pack calls an "auto". One main reason for the long hold time of the GT500 was the need to incorporate the DCT in order to perform in road races against its benchmarked cars. The decision on the trans (much like the C8) led to what the car is today.

1) 7 speeds and a 7500 rpm leads to large RPM drops between the gears. The ZLX A10 has about 1/3 less HP drop between the gears. This does hamper the 760 HP car.

2) Chevy probably made the right choice and maybe just put a whole lot more engineering into their C8 and it has excellent 0-60 and launch characteristics (yes I know we are front engine vs mid-engine) even on all-season tires. Seems Ford is still working on launch for the GT500, and frankly does not consider the GT500 a drag car. Sure a few will drag it, many will pose with it and some will actually use it on the road race circuit. So as a muscle car drag car the GT500 has to be a heck of an expensive option and the Camaro from SS to ZL1 offers a better transmission or transmissions of choices. The auto being faster and cheaper in just about any application from street pick up a soda at 7-11 to road racing to high speed runs. The manual just being plain fun at a performance penalty that many are willing to pay.

I do see the GT500 meetings several customer needs:
a) many people can't drive a manual (posers) and by buying a GT500 for status
b) the just want a really good road race and street car and ain't ever going to drag or stop light street fight. Say this is about 80% or more of the actual buyer of the car.

Nutshell the GT500 performance parameters were dictated by the DCT and it will meet the usage of 80% or more of the buyers. GM offers two transmissions and either meets the 99% of its market segment, people wanting to go fast for cheap and / or have fun for cheap. The same has been going on for 53 years now. GM is relatively cheap to play and Ford unless you get a Boss or Clevland or CJ, you get a 4 bbl windsor motor and that was still a "high performance" motor from Ford. It is just really expensive to play with a Ford and let's be honest either these GT500 guys have money to burn or they are in it way over their heads as these GT500 have to be the MOST expensive 1/4 mile Muscle cars ever and we know it is all fun and grins till the motor or trans lets go after a whole 60 days of usage.

Maybe it was a foolish endeavor on Ford's part to go to such lengths for that trans...judging by the end product. It is a cool feature but it seems like it did more harm than good. A beefed up A10 would have been the better way to go.

Originally Posted by oldman

I raced at A&M for many many years and their track is setup on an abandon runway form ww2. We setup a "road race" on it. Look road race came about over the last 100 years as a race that happens on a road that is probably blocked off for the event. As more people got more cars and roads in general can't be blocked, "road race" moved to privately owned areas the mimic a "road race" i.e. a track that is not dirt or a banked oval. To say that a "road race" only means this narrow deffinition belies the whole history of "road race". As pointed out there are still "road races" in the US that make use of public roads... not some private land trying to mimic a "road race". To say that these RACES that happen on a ROAD are not "road races" is completely and totally none sensical and should be drop.

You can even go onto the sites and they straight up call it "road racing" or "road courses". And some of these races can see very high (200+ MPH) speeds easily. You're talking about roads that stretch for miles and miles. But there are a bunch of know-it-alls here who, just because they haven't been able to get their cars over 120 MPH, will doubt that anyone else can. I even told them the actual definition of the phrase. But they're just here to bicker and argue for whatever reason. Must be bored at home or something.

Originally Posted by oldman

Since I'm on this history rant, let me address staring line racing. In general, there was a flag girl (always is), as the boys are the "racers", we looked at a little used road in west Texas, and the length of the track (yes sometimes there was a painted end of the 1/4 mile, ask me how I know), LA had something like this in the big drainage ditches, Hawaii had this at Sandy's before the haloes built up Hawaii Kai, I'm sure this was true in EVERY nook and cranny in the US and everywhere else.

As an aside in HS we hosted a Geman soccer team here for a playoff. So of course everynight we would go drinking and drag racing. My 3 bros and I had these three cars: 69 Camaro DZ 302, with I believe was a Pioneer underdash supertuner, Jensen speakers, dual cones in the front (sound system to party with) I'd park in fist open the trunk and "blast that" all night till races were over or the cops came. My bro built 302 windsor Mustang, general family car 440 dart with widen cop rims, my "race car" AMC Gremlin with N50 out back and a 390 that came from my older sister's Scrambler (took the sun tac also). Anyway the German guy said to me one night, is this all you Americans do is drink, girls and race everynight? I said yep, bout it.

Anyway the point is the "drag" was a flag drop. Modern 1/4 miles with these timed trees are supposed to mimic this "flag drop" the problem I see is that in general testing and most of these street nights, the timer does NOT start till the light beam is broken. If the GT500 really has an issue with a DCT launch delay (sure on a timmed full tree you can leave earlier), but in the real world (stop light fight) and as we see on the video, it is going to lead to a serious wooping and yes there is a real world, where real cars drive and owners sometimes engage in real world exceleration when the light turns green. So for the sake of me not being banned, lets just say in "flag drop" racing, a slow DCT will but this GT500 back into the pits on the very first round. aka you should have brung a GT auto.

My New Edge GT had a slight delay in shifting. It had an electronic trans. So I had to time my shifts properly or else I'd end up hitting the rev limiter. Basically I had to shift it at a certain time before I actually wanted it to shift. Once I got good at it I had no problems unless I was distracted. So it seems the GT500 will be that way. Launching will have to be timed properly so as not to red light or not to get left at the light.

Which kinda serves the Ford camp right for all the fuss they made about the M6 trans ZL1 having the bog feature. That was the reason for it doing high 11s but according to the Ford guys, it was slow for a 650 HP car. Now their 760 HP car is having the same results pretty much, lol!! Goes around, comes around.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So it seems the GT500 will be that way. Launching will have to be timed properly so as not to red light or not to get left at the light.

I too think it can be timed launch at a tree, even the stage, all yellow, green, "pro tree". But a flag drop, or the green light, this car will be napping. Literally we are talking about a Muscle car that can't meet the simple requirement of being able to leave when the light turns green. But rather need a time tree before the word "go". May not show up at the drag strip, but as the video shows, it will matter under road conditions. Of course this will be at a closed event "flag drop"

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by oldman

I too think it can be timed launch at a tree, even the stage, all yellow, green, "pro tree". But a flag drop, or the green light, this car will be napping. Literally we are talking about a Muscle car that can't meet the simple requirement of being able to leave when the light turns green. But rather need a time tree before the word "go". May not show up at the drag strip, but as the video shows, it will matter under road conditions. Of course this will be at a closed event "flag drop"

I think every bit of this is true when a GT500 driver chooses to use Launch Control. I have used Camaro’s Launch Control exactly twice on dragstrips, both times with embarrassing results. I do better it a modest tip-in then go for it. I continue to try to improve on my LC use in random moments on deserted roads. Don’t have it down yet. My point is, if a GT500 driver chose to not use LC, I would expect they would get a better launch in “flag drop” events where they cannot appropriately time the tree.

[oldman]

by better = the car will move sooner off the line, I'd expect that Joe average tester or diver will find a 760 hp car under manual aka right foot control near impossible to accelerate with, at that point we are really talking a manual trans manual throttle. My car can't take more than 1/10 throttle first gear. It just not possible to modulate these small amounts of throttle in fractions of seconds.

to my mind if your launch control does not work well on street tires on street traction your hopless and drag times will be all over the place. This may or many show up on a timed tree where you can launch pre-green and have better traction, but it will show up on the street as shown on the video.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

He thinks anything that comes off his keyboard is gospel, when 90% of it is BS. Then he tries to act like he's being "the bigger man" saying he ignores us and wants to keep the thread on track which is more BS. When someone is the common denominator in all the arguements that shows who the problem is.

Agreed, I can’t believe I actually stood for him a couple of times here and on M6G. I definitely won’t do that ever again, especially since he still can’t let it go.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think every bit of this is true when a GT500 driver chooses to use Launch Control. I have used Camaro’s Launch Control exactly twice on dragstrips, both times with embarrassing results. I do better it a modest tip-in then go for it. I continue to try to improve on my LC use in random moments on deserted roads. Don’t have it down yet. My point is, if a GT500 driver chose to not use LC, I would expect they would get a better launch in “flag drop” events where they cannot appropriately time the tree.

I don't like using LC either. I prefer doing it the old fashioned way. My best results have always come from feathering the throttle and then nailing it once the tires catch. Plus I never liked how it takes like 5 different selections to get thru the menu. By the time you actually set LC the tree is green. God forbid you miss a step. It should be one button you press to launch LC and then you're set.

Originally Posted by oldman

by better = the car will move sooner off the line, I'd expect that Joe average tester or diver will find a 760 hp car under manual aka right foot control near impossible to accelerate with, at that point we are really talking a manual trans manual throttle. My car can't take more than 1/10 throttle first gear. It just not possible to modulate these small amounts of throttle in fractions of seconds.

to my mind if your launch control does not work well on street tires on street traction your hopless and drag times will be all over the place. This may or many show up on a timed tree where you can launch pre-green and have better traction, but it will show up on the street as shown on the video.

So really the only place these cars will do well in is track rentals...or against other GT500s. It is gonna get wrecked on the streets. At least until someone figures out a way to tune this nonsense out.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think every bit of this is true when a GT500 driver chooses to use Launch Control. I have used Camaro’s Launch Control exactly twice on dragstrips, both times with embarrassing results. I do better it a modest tip-in then go for it. I continue to try to improve on my LC use in random moments on deserted roads. Don’t have it down yet. My point is, if a GT500 driver chose to not use LC, I would expect they would get a better launch in “flag drop” events where they cannot appropriately time the tree.

Another question about the 500 launch control: Are the clutches "overheating" only when people try using launch control? All the videos I have seen thus far it happens with launch control. And it seems it does it about 50% the time.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by minn19

Agreed, I can’t believe I actually stood for him a couple of times here and on M6G. I definitely won’t do that ever again, especially since he still can’t let it go.

Nobody but you and JA care about this anymore, you guys can take it to PM and save the rest of us.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Nobody but you and JA care about this anymore, you guys can take it to PM and save the rest of us.

Really? I have let it go and some of you guys/him keep taking shots. So follow your own advice or say something to him as well.

[BlaqWhole]

In addition to what chadicus asked I would like to know if this delay is active only in LC or at all times? It doesn't appear that it can be tuned out at this point. So if it is in LC then the best bet would be launching it in regular mode without LC.

I wonder what prompted Frod to do this in the first place.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In addition to what chadicus asked I would like to know if this delay is active only in LC or at all times? It doesn't appear that it can be tuned out at this point. So if it is in LC then the best bet would be launching it in regular mode without LC.

I wonder what prompted Frod to do this in the first place.

Another question: If the clutches are really overheating under hard acceleration what is going to happen in the summer when you try to pass a car or a something? After a day of "canyon carving" (as Ford likes to advertise) you go to pass a semi and your car dies?

If the "overheating" only happens with launch control then the launch control is worthless.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Another question about the 500 launch control: Are the clutches "overheating" only when people try using launch control? All the videos I have seen thus far it happens with launch control. And it seems it does it about 50% the time.

I would assume it is the twin packs of clutches, one pack per 4 speed trans. The DCT is basically two 4 speeds glued together. We all know you can only heat a clutch for so long before it just "cooked". Then the $3500 bill from the local Ford dealer to get u a new clutch pack. I'm sure the ECU collects data like max torque delivered and flags it, so while their at it might as well void the powertrain warranty. Not what is your 100K collectible worth?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/what...gt500-mustang/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by oldman

I would assume it is the twin packs of clutches, one pack per 4 speed trans. The DCT is basically two 4 speeds glued together. We all know you can only heat a clutch for so long before it just "cooked". Then the $3500 bill from the local Ford dealer to get u a new clutch pack. I'm sure the ECU collects data like max torque delivered and flags it, so while their at it might as well void the powertrain warranty. Not what is your 100K collectible worth?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/what...gt500-mustang/

I’m going to assume that Ford extends warranty to track use for the GT500. If not, then there’s a whole other thread to needs to be discussed.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m going to assume that Ford extends warranty to track use for the GT500. If not, then there’s a whole other thread to needs to be discussed.

The info I've seen posted online is that the warranty is good for HPDE and test/tune drags. If you enter any kind of timed competetive category (TT, bracket racing, etc.) you're on your own.