[minn19]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Why the quotes?

Why no answer?

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I see nothing wrong with that line of thinking. That probably works for the majority of the people out there.

I stopped that line of thinking when I raced in a series for a few years, competitively. not just test n tune but a 10 race series, that's when I started to not care about what happened on the street but only on the strip(that + the one time I almost got busted lol)

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah I used to go to T&T all the time, the dragstrip was only hour away tops if there was no traffic and back then it was only like 25 or 30 bucks to get in and make as many passes as you wanted. Once I got into that series I was hooked on the competitive part.

I agree that Blaq's example is most accurate as per percentage of owners who actually track their cars.

I have taken 4 different vehicles I have owned to a strip. Next on list is a road course for the GS. I realize that people who go to the track are the vast minority of owners, but probably make up a large percentage of enthusiasts (note: owner does not equal enthusiast in my opinion).

This why it is so difficult for a manufacturer to build a performance car - most owners want the image and the bragging rights, fewer yet want the street performance, and even fewer still want as much performance as they can use at a track (strip or road course or whatever the word of the day is...insert here). If they build a highly capable road course car (ZL1 1LE), then it's too rough, or not comfy enough - which is ludicrous because you can buy a base ZL1 if you want those things.

Anyway, long rant - but enthusiasts cars we love, but don't sell well because we are willing to have compromises for performance - the other 95% of owners complain about those compromises because their latest phone takes 0.05 seconds too long to link to the bloody infotainment system.

[ZRacerLE]

Damn we need another mag/youtube review quick!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Damn we need another mag/youtube review quick!!

I don't think we're gonna see too many good reviews with the Mustang up against any legit competition. It's clear that someone somewhere doesn't want this car being compared. Which is a shame. Because there tons of cars out there that would make a good match...and ultimately win. But I don't think the Shelbys can get by anymore on excuses and subjective wins against under powered cheaper cars. So we're probably seeing just about all we're gonna see.

When you think about it, I think a lot of cars out there are have been in hiding from the Zs and will be in hiding when the higher trim C8s come out. The Z boys have been making performance and price for several years now. And it looks like it's just gonna get worse. Ford is not going to be able to answer the C8 Z06 no matter how much HP and CF they throw at the GT500. And I'm betting the lowest trim Z06 will be priced right around the GT500 anyway. So that is a battle they're gonna avoid. If GM does tweak the ZL1 to 700 HP then I'm sure Ford is definitely gonna avoid that too. I don't think we'll be seeing any good comparisons.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The complete Camaro performance package begins with the SS and the intensity ramps up from there.

A warrantied, fully track capable, 1SS has a starting msrp of $37,995.

$36,745 after the $1,250 cash back incentive available right now.
The gen5 1LE was faster than the (special) Boss 302 LS.

A gen6 SS is more of a track car than the (special) 2016 GT350 technology package.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml

The 2016 Technology Package was a joke. That is what I had and Ford was a ****up for making it without coolers. When I contacted Ford Racing about upgrading to new transmission and coolers, they said it would void my warranty. Ford sucks.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I have taken 4 different vehicles I have owned to a strip. Next on list is a road course for the GS. I realize that people who go to the track are the vast minority of owners, but probably make up a large percentage of enthusiasts (note: owner does not equal enthusiast in my opinion).

Fully agree. Owners who take their car to the track (HPDE or 1/4) are in the minority. Which is also why it's silly to argue over track times for these things. Yet here we are

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Fully agree. Owners who take their car to the track (HPDE or 1/4) are in the minority. Which is also why it's silly to argue over track times for these things. Yet here we are

Hahaha, true! But if you build a capable lap machine, it must be tested against it's rivals for supremacy - this is the law of Motorsports

[Hops]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So I'm not sure why Ford even builds Mustangs like the PP2 then. Track tires, no extra coolers, if you put coolers on it you burn your warranty, if you race it on a track you burn your warranty, makes no sense.

For the magazine racing community, I think they made the mustang PP2 to get a better lap time than the ss 1le.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Hops

For the magazine racing community, I think they made the mustang PP2 to get a better lap time than the ss 1le.

From my recollection, this hasn't happened on the same day, same track, same driver?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't think we're gonna see too many good reviews with the Mustang up against any legit competition. It's clear that someone somewhere doesn't want this car being compared. Which is a shame. Because there tons of cars out there that would make a good match...and ultimately win. But I don't think the Shelbys can get by anymore on excuses and subjective wins against under powered cheaper cars. So we're probably seeing just about all we're gonna see.

MT still hasn't done an official comparison with the GT500 yet. the test against the C8 was a mash up of two separate reviews. So I think we will still see one from them.

Plus I would bet it will be at performance car of the year, best drivers car and LL

[Hops]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

From my recollection, this hasn't happened on the same day, same track, same driver?

not sure about that, but in the lightning lap, the pp2 beats the ss 1le. The do mention the overheating:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them...

That disqualifies the pp2 for me.

[DaveC113]

PP2 is ridiculous imo, it's seriously compromised for street driving due to it's tire choice, both size and type, so it tramlines and is a PITA to drive. Yet it's also seriously compromised for track and according to Ford, isn't designed for it. Further, the tire choice costs far too much to maintain for the car it's on, I can't believe any PP2 owners are going to keep on buying Cup2 tires for ANY use. If they could afford that, they could afford a far better car in the first place.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Hops

not sure about that, but in the lightning lap, the pp2 beats the ss 1le. The do mention the overheating:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them...

That disqualifies the pp2 for me.

Those laps were on two separate occasions, 1 year apart - a 1 second difference on a nearly 3 minute lap time is easily manipulated by track conditions. I will happily concede the PP2 can beat the SS 1LE for 1 lap, if they ever put them Head 2 Head at the same place and time and if it does in fact, best the 1LE...then I want to see it stay ahead for more than 3 laps.

Being that I am getting into road course, my closes track runs 20 min sessions (Track Junkies @ Castrol Raceway, Edmonton, AB). I would rather not have to worry about cooling at any point during a single session.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

PP2 is ridiculous imo, it's seriously compromised for street driving due to it's tire choice, both size and type, so it tramlines and is a PITA to drive. Yet it's also seriously compromised for track and according to Ford, isn't designed for it. Further, the tire choice costs far too much to maintain for the car it's on, I can't believe any PP2 owners are going to keep on buying Cup2 tires for ANY use. If they could afford that, they could afford a far better car in the first place.

But it has cool wheels.....LOL. I agree with you here 100%