[adamjwilson]

I spoke to TooHighPSI... great guys. No mod to the hood if you go with their plates, reflex+ controller with the Whipple 3.0. There was some talk about the port injection bungs on the whipple, but that is not stock on the 3.0, so I think you/they would have to weld/drill those bungs on (if you wanted to omit the plates). You can run E85 with the port injection with no need for the meth... that is what was told to me
I would stick with the Maggie 2650 if you have it! You can surely reach the HP gains you are looking for with the Maggie. Laynlo15 and KingLT1 can provide additional input to put you on the right path

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

-LT4 fueling high to low. If planning on running E85 then I wouldn't go with this unless you want to limit yourself to around 750-760whp of fuel support on E50. If you add Meth for supplemental fueling it will go a bit further. Only way I would do this is with forged pistons.

+30 Injectors, LPE HPFP, Aux low side. This will get to around 850-900whp on E60 with no meth.

+65 Injectors, LPE HPFP, triple pump low side. Need 43% lobe cam to maximize HPFP flow. Will Support 950-1000whp on full E with no Meth.

-ToohighPSI port injection. Will support 1000whp on full E with stock LT1 fueling. Need at least an Aux low side. (Most cost effective solution)


Meth is ok for forged piston stuff, but I wouldn't run it with stock pistons and pump gas. The LT1 engines break left and right from that combo. I am guessing distribution issues...the heat from being leaner will cause the rings to butt and break the piston. Also some LT1 engines have tighter clearances then others. These are great engines but the build quality consistency from one to the next is China.

Either way it looks like you are doing forged pistons so really all you need to do is figure out where you plan to end up power wise and select your fuel system.

OP: My advice after having done the fuel system multiple times, is spring for the biggest and best fuel system you can afford. Run a good blend of E50 or higher and enjoy the blower.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

I spoke to TooHighPSI... great guys. No mod to the hood if you go with their plates, reflex+ controller with the Whipple 3.0. There was some talk about the port injection bungs on the whipple, but that is not stock on the 3.0, so I think you/they would have to weld/drill those bungs on (if you wanted to omit the plates). You can run E85 with the port injection with no need for the meth... that is what was told to me
I would stick with the Maggie 2650 if you have it! You can surely reach the HP gains you are looking for with the Maggie. Laynlo15 and KingLT1 can provide additional input to put you on the right path

Be glad to help on the toohighpsi plates and controller. Just let me know.

[ZL14ever]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

No mod to the hood if you go with their plates, reflex+ controller with the Whipple 3.0

I don't think anyone verified such fitment & IMO I can't see how this is even possible given the size of the 3.0 Whipple. Maybe they were talking about LT4 blower or the Mag 2650

[adamjwilson]

The guys at TooHighPSI verified that with me when I discussed their plates under the whipple that no hood mod was necessary. i eventually went a different direction with my build so I cannot verify filament with the Whipple 3.0

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

The guys at TooHighPSI verified that with me when I discussed their plates under the whipple that no hood mod was necessary. i eventually went a different direction with my build so I cannot verify filament with the Whipple 3.0

I'm guessing that they have the dimensions of the 3.0 so that's how they verified fitment. I'd bet the rotor housing is very close if not the same as the 2.9.
We will be attending the PRI show on the 8th and 9th of December, so I hope we see a 3.0 Whipple in person at one of their dealers since I didn't see Whipple on the list of exhibitors.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

I guess I have not ever looked closely enough at your positngs. I did not know that you are running the OEM LT1 pistons, and doing so at 10-11 psi. I did not know that you could do that, but I guess the ethanol and methmake a big difference?

Jim G

Not meth injection...Ethanol. Meth injection cools the intake charge, but that temp drop is miniscule once we start talking about Cylinder temps and EGT's. Big difference between injecting meth through a fertilizer pump vs Ethanol through 8 injectors at 2000+ psi. The Ethanol literally pulls a ton of heat out of the cylinder by hundreds of degrees. Cooling the intake charge 50 degrees might keep the ECU happy so you get all of your timing but that 50 degrees in the cylinder isn't nothing when the flash point of Meth creates a lot more heat vs E85. Keeping the heat out of the cylinder keeps the piston rings from expanding.

Don't get me wrong meth works. It's proven on the ZL1 but it is 1.5 point lower compression with properly gapped piston rings. The meth will act as high octane race fuel but it's something you have to understand because it will allow a lot more timing without KR. On a forged piston with proper ring gaps, it's a non-issue. On a stock piston LT1 with 10-12 thou ring gap it's no bueno. Hence why 90% of the SBE LT1 boost failures always are pump gas and/or meth. E85 also allows a lot more timing but it starches the heat from the timing increase, so the engine is making more power with lower cylinder temps and egt's.

Now if you used water injection as cooling then it would help a ton with cylinder cooling, but you don't get the power gain. Everybody wants to inject 100% meth for max power gains and that is where the trouble starts on the stock piston stuff. Then you have the distribution issues and there is already very little room for error on a stock LT1 as is.

Mike Sitar aka ToohighPSI has explained this in much better detail in the past and if you wish to know more contact him.

[arpad_m]

^^^ this should be a sticky

[Kerry]

Once again I fail to comprehend how a piston ring can expand 10 thousands or more to close the ring gap but not expand the width 10 thousands and lock up in the ring land. I know everyone says that. Even engineer's at Wesco recommended 35 thou to me on the last build.

How can it grow length wise but no other way. Clearance on a ring land s like 2 thou maybe at most. Last I checked when u heat metal it grows all directions not just one.

I think its an excuse from manufacture's when someone has a piston fail to avoid responsibility.

Stock ring gap on the lt4 is same as lt1 at around 11 thou and is considered wore out at 15

I have put over 60000 miles on stock lt1 pistons with meth at 11 thou and never ever had a ring butt. Ever. had a rod size on crank. so have a lot of people with out meth. Bent and broke stock rod at around 1000 plus crank running e85. But never had a ring butt, Period that's experience. and facts. 1000s of hits as well. Short ones but thousands like mainly 50 to 120 or so. I go to old mexico a lot lol

And also on the broke rod. I noticed that one side of the piston pin was pulled out broke. So if the Wesco piston failed then that would break the rod for sure. then debris could have bent the other rod. but not likely, most likely the rod bent from so much pressure broke one side of the pin boss and catastrophe ensued lol.


Car was making about 800 wheel. 13% drive train loss and about 100 to spin the blower. I say 700 is about the limit on stock lt1 rods. pistons break ring land on random. Even stock motors have broke ring lands. rack proven motor sports quote from Fran

Further more if a ring does close the gap, especially enough to break a ring land then u are going to have a streaked up cylinder period again. O i did break a ring land once btw no damage to the cylinder. Had a sever mutable back fires on a dyno pull and i think thats what did it in my case. No fresh air coming into the dyno room and it will not run on exhaust fumes.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Not meth injection...Ethanol. Meth injection cools the intake charge, but that temp drop is miniscule once we start talking about Cylinder temps and EGT's. Big difference between injecting meth through a fertilizer pump vs Ethanol through 8 injectors at 2000+ psi. The Ethanol literally pulls a ton of heat out of the cylinder by hundreds of degrees. Cooling the intake charge 50 degrees might keep the ECU happy so you get all of your timing but that 50 degrees in the cylinder isn't nothing when the flash point of Meth creates a lot more heat vs E85. Keeping the heat out of the cylinder keeps the piston rings from expanding.

Don't get me wrong meth works. It's proven on the ZL1 but it is 1.5 point lower compression with properly gapped piston rings. The meth will act as high octane race fuel but it's something you have to understand because it will allow a lot more timing without KR. On a forged piston with proper ring gaps, it's a non-issue. On a stock piston LT1 with 10-12 thou ring gap it's no bueno. Hence why 90% of the SBE LT1 boost failures always are pump gas and/or meth. E85 also allows a lot more timing but it starches the heat from the timing increase, so the engine is making more power with lower cylinder temps and egt's.

Now if you used water injection as cooling then it would help a ton with cylinder cooling, but you don't get the power gain. Everybody wants to inject 100% meth for max power gains and that is where the trouble starts on the stock piston stuff. Then you have the distribution issues and there is already very little room for error on a stock LT1 as is.

Mike Sitar aka ToohighPSI has explained this in much better detail in the past and if you wish to know more contact him.

Thanks KingLT1 for that explanation. The best pump fuel we can get anywhere in my geographic area is 91 octane Shell. And the pump labels say that the gas "may contain up to 10% Ethanol". I find that rather a useless a label, since (a) it does not specify which of the 3 available grades of fuel from the pump have the Ethanoi, and (b) what the specific Ethanol content is in the 91 octane, and (c) does the percent Ethanol change from one fuel truckload delivery to the next?

I don't want to mix fuel in my garage or driveway.

Even if I did, I would not want to create a problem for myself when going on a long road trip where the availability of specific types of fuel is unknown.

So, I am kind of stuck. Shell Canada has said that they are rolling out 93 octane gas across the province where I live, but so far it is only available in an area at least 175 km away from where I live.

I'm not worried about it though. The car runs fine with my very limited usage - street only, no track or drag strip, with the longest sustained time at WOT being maybe 8 seconds at a time.

Our climate also helps. It is very rarely above 30C = 86F even on the hottest summer days.

For the short term, I have no plans to alter the engine physically or to alter the Magnuson tune. In the future, I may consider doing things like the fuel system upgrades, and forged pistons with lower CR, but I have no idea what that would cost, all labour included as I am not set up with either skills or equipment to do them. Also, since I have OEM LT1 width wheels, I would have to change all 4 wheels and tires (I would not tolerate different rear wheels versus front wheels).And I would have to ask myself if doing all that would actually make any sense at all, given my modest usage (the local law enforcement punishments for going more than 20 mph over the speed limit are pretty draconian).

The car as it sits now with the unaltered Magnuson kit is a LOT of fun.

Jim G

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Kerry

Once again I fail to comprehend how a piston ring can expand 10 thousands or more to close the ring gap but not expand the width 10 thousands and lock up in the ring land. I know everyone says that. Even engineer's at Wesco recommended 35 thou to me on the last build.

How can it grow length wise but no other way. Clearance on a ring land s like 2 thou maybe at most. Last I checked when u heat metal it grows all directions not just one.

I think its an excuse from manufacture's when someone has a piston fail to avoid responsibility.

Stock ring gap on the lt4 is same as lt1 at around 11 thou and is considered wore out at 15

I have put over 60000 miles on stock lt1 pistons with meth at 11 thou and never ever had a ring butt. Ever. had a rod size on crank. so have a lot of people with out meth. Bent and broke stock rod at around 1000 plus crank running e85. But never had a ring butt, Period that's experience. and facts. 1000s of hits as well. Short ones but thousands like mainly 50 to 120 or so. I go to old mexico a lot lol

And also on the broke rod. I noticed that one side of the piston pin was pulled out broke. So if the Wesco piston failed then that would break the rod for sure. then debris could have bent the other rod. but not likely, most likely the rod bent from so much pressure broke one side of the pin boss and catastrophe ensued lol.


Car was making about 800 wheel. 13% drive train loss and about 100 to spin the blower. I say 700 is about the limit on stock lt1 rods. pistons break ring land on random. Even stock motors have broke ring lands. rack proven motor sports quote from Fran

Further more if a ring does close the gap, especially enough to break a ring land then u are going to have a streaked up cylinder period again. O i did break a ring land once btw no damage to the cylinder. Had a sever mutable back fires on a dyno pull and i think thats what did it in my case. No fresh air coming into the dyno room and it will not run on exhaust fumes.

The ring expansion takes the path of least resistance and that is the gap. It's been proven and documented that the rings will butt and break the piston with too much heat.

The bottom line is: If you want longevity and good results boosting a SBE LT1, then upgrade the fuel system and run Ethanol. That's not to say you can't run pump gas and low boost. That is ok up to 7psi but if you want more then you need to switch to E for 10-11psi. Above that it's wise to just go with forged rods/pistons.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Not meth injection...Ethanol. Meth injection cools the intake charge, but that temp drop is miniscule once we start talking about Cylinder temps and EGT's. Big difference between injecting meth through a fertilizer pump vs Ethanol through 8 injectors at 2000+ psi. The Ethanol literally pulls a ton of heat out of the cylinder by hundreds of degrees. Cooling the intake charge 50 degrees might keep the ECU happy so you get all of your timing but that 50 degrees in the cylinder isn't nothing when the flash point of Meth creates a lot more heat vs E85. Keeping the heat out of the cylinder keeps the piston rings from expanding.

Don't get me wrong meth works. It's proven on the ZL1 but it is 1.5 point lower compression with properly gapped piston rings. The meth will act as high octane race fuel but it's something you have to understand because it will allow a lot more timing without KR. On a forged piston with proper ring gaps, it's a non-issue. On a stock piston LT1 with 10-12 thou ring gap it's no bueno. Hence why 90% of the SBE LT1 boost failures always are pump gas and/or meth. E85 also allows a lot more timing but it starches the heat from the timing increase, so the engine is making more power with lower cylinder temps and egt's.

Now if you used water injection as cooling then it would help a ton with cylinder cooling, but you don't get the power gain. Everybody wants to inject 100% meth for max power gains and that is where the trouble starts on the stock piston stuff. Then you have the distribution issues and there is already very little room for error on a stock LT1 as is.

Mike Sitar aka ToohighPSI has explained this in much better detail in the past and if you wish to know more contact him.

I ran 50/50 Meth/Water and made well over 150 passes on my 16ss with this combo and VP Ms109. I never ran straight M1 as others have done. We were trying to help with some fueling but mainly cooling since we were pushing the motor with a lot of boost for an LT1. I did have one of the early big bore pumps, lt4 injector and lt4 in tank. We never had a pump failure as some have had so that part worked put pretty well. I'll never run it again, just stick with lower boost and E65. Happy with that for sure.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The ring expansion takes the path of least resistance and that is the gap. It's been proven and documented that the rings will butt and break the piston with too much heat.


I disagree but thats ok


The bottom line is: If you want longevity and good results boosting a SBE LT1, then upgrade the fuel system and run Ethanol. That's not to say you can't run pump gas and low boost. That is ok up to 7psi but if you want more then you need to switch to E for 10-11psi. Above that it's wise to just go with forged rods/pistons.

I agree completely and u should forge an lt1 if u want to make any more power. Can u do it sure but, and get rid of 0w oil.

[WiggyB]

I'm liking the general conversation taking place here. I have honestly spoken to a few of the guys chiming in here and they have all given good advice. Big thanks to Laynlo15 for the input on the toohipsi kit but without knowing the fitment of the LT2 intake I'm going to have to go LT4. Besides since I already have meth and after talking with the guys at toohighpsi all that fueling would really be overkill if I'm not looking to build the engine (which I'm not).

Another thanks goes out to Kerry for pointing me in the direction of the plates to make the fitment not be an issues on the highside pump. Like Kerry having the option to run either or is a good deal mainly for the savings. Where I'm at there's plenty of e85 around but when I travel to my pops I'd be lucky to find 1. The added power is always nice but I don't run her hard just a weekend roller and have a lil fun from time to time.

Big thanks to everyone though you make a person really do their research and make the proper decisions on which route would be best for them.

Knowledge is power.......................