Upgrading Fuel System

adamjwilson · 11-23-2022, 07:25 AM

Upgrading my fuel system while the speed shop installs the Whipple 3.0 and some internal upgrades. I see Windhammer sells a Stage 1 and 2 GM fuel upgrade kit. Looks like a ZL low side in tank fuel pump and new injectors. Anything better out there on the market? Thanks-

Kerry · 11-23-2022, 08:34 AM

You might not need the in tank on a 22. There's some thinking out their that the later models already have the lt4 in tank. According to my vin I do not have the lt4 low side but

The jms booster works great on my 19. Im running the lt4 hp and injectors all the way to 5.2 with no drop at all in low side.

I think its because the in tank dead heads into the high pressure pump. Not like the old rising rate regulators of the past that was always returning fuel to the tank. I never saw much out of boosting the voltage with that set up.

Of course I dont know what kind of power u plan to mank just something to think on.

KingLT1 · 11-23-2022, 08:42 AM

-LT4 fueling high to low. If planning on running E85 then I wouldn't go with this unless you want to limit yourself to around 750-760whp of fuel support on E50. If you add Meth for supplemental fueling it will go a bit further. Only way I would do this is with forged pistons.

+30 Injectors, LPE HPFP, Aux low side. This will get to around 850-900whp on E60 with no meth.

+65 Injectors, LPE HPFP, triple pump low side. Need 43% lobe cam to maximize HPFP flow. Will Support 950-1000whp on full E with no Meth.

-ToohighPSI port injection. Will support 1000whp on full E with stock LT1 fueling. Need at least an Aux low side. (Most cost effective solution)

Meth is ok for forged piston stuff, but I wouldn't run it with stock pistons and pump gas. The LT1 engines break left and right from that combo. I am guessing distribution issues...the heat from being leaner will cause the rings to butt and break the piston. Also some LT1 engines have tighter clearances then others. These are great engines but the build quality consistency from one to the next is China.

Either way it looks like you are doing forged pistons so really all you need to do is figure out where you plan to end up power wise and select your fuel system.

laynlo15 · 11-23-2022, 08:42 AM

I think you should have the same in tank that I do and I believe we have the Zl1 pump in that tank already. My pressures were much higher on logging then my C7 or my 16ss when stock. There are some other posts on this from a few months back. Some others had thought the same as it appears to have changed in 2019 or 2020. I have logs for all three cars and went back and looked at when they were stock and that's how I made my determination. I have the JMS it it really does help on the voltage plus I have the TooHighPsi port injection with the stock fuel system.

laynlo15 · 11-23-2022, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

-LT4 fueling high to low. If planning on running E85 then I wouldn't go with this unless you want to limit yourself to around 750-760whp of fuel support on E50. If you add Meth for supplemental fueling it will go a bit further. Only way I would do this is with forged pistons.

+30 Injectors, LPE HPFP, Aux low side. This will get to around 850-900whp on E60 with no meth.

+65 Injectors, LPE HPFP, triple pump low side. Need 43% lobe cam to maximize HPFP flow. Will Support 950-1000whp on full E with no Meth.

-ToohighPSI port injection. Will support 1000whp on full E with stock LT1 fueling. Need at least an Aux low side. (Most cost effective solution)

Meth is ok for forged piston stuff, but I wouldn't run it with stock pistons and pump gas. The LT1 engines break left and right from that combo. I am guessing distribution issues...the heat from being leaner will cause the rings to butt and break the piston. Also some LT1 engines have tighter clearances then others. These are great engines but the build quality consistency from one to the next is China.

Haha, I like the China example, but King is right can't push these too far as many of us have found out. It ain't cheap to build a new Lt1 after you've made the wrong choices. I did that and wifey wasn't happy, neither was my checking account.

adamjwilson · 11-23-2022, 08:46 AM

I see Windhammer has the Stage 2 fuel kit- high and low side pumps and injectors (not sure size) Anything wrong with this kit? (I should note that my initial plans are not to exceed the 8-900 rwhp realm and not to track the car. More of a reliable fun weekend car- not the daily driver. I will sit in the stands on track/drag days and watch those guys/gals burn that $$$, as I know that is an addiction for speed - been there with boats and bikes)

KingLT1 · 11-23-2022, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

I see Windhammer has the Stage 2 fuel kit- high and low side pumps and injectors (not sure size) Anything wrong with this kit? (I should note that my initial plans are not to exceed the 8-900 rwhp realm and not to track the car. More of a reliable fun weekend car- not the daily driver. I will sit in the stands on track/drag days and watch those guys/gals burn that $$$, as I know that is an addiction for speed - been there with boats and bikes)

Wild Hammer stage 2 is the LT4 fuel system. It's not going to keep up with 800-900whp on E85 unless you plan to use meth for additional fueling. And you will need the meth to cover 150whp worth of fuel on E85. If you blend to E50 then will only need a small amount of meth.

If you want fun and reliable then don't rely on meth to fuel the engine. So that means you need more fuel system then the Wildhammer stage 2.

adamjwilson · 11-23-2022, 10:33 AM

Thanks for the info KingLT1- so I spoke to DSX Tuning- they recommend the aux pump kit, injectors, and H/S pump (on backorder). Matt did not recommend replacing the in tank l/s pump in the car. I do not have plans on running E85 initially, just pump gas 93 and meth. (the backwards logic to that is that I do not drive the car enough, so a tank of E85 may sit for months before I use it which is not a good thing)
Any comments on what DSX is recommending?

KingLT1 · 11-23-2022, 11:50 AM

E85 can sit in your tank all winter and it's fine. Been doing it for years. Pour a little Lucas Ethanol stabilizer in the tank and you are good.

My 2016 only has 17k miles...1/2 of that mileage is wot, 1/8, 1/4mi street pulls. It's my fun car and has been well tested. Stock long block, upgraded fuel system, 10-11psi, E50-60.

JimGnitecki · 11-23-2022, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

E85 can sit in your tank all winter and it's fine. Been doing it for years. Pour a little Lucas Ethanol stabilizer in the tank and you are good.

My 2016 only has 17k miles...1/2 of that mileage is wot, 1/8, 1/4mi street pulls. It's my fun car and has been well tested. Stock long block, upgraded fuel system, 10-11psi, E50-60.

I guess I have not ever looked closely enough at your positngs. I did not know that you are running the OEM LT1 pistons, and doing so at 10-11 psi. I did not know that you could do that, but I guess the ethanol and methmake a big difference?

Jim G

laynlo15 · 11-23-2022, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

E85 can sit in your tank all winter and it's fine. Been doing it for years. Pour a little Lucas Ethanol stabilizer in the tank and you are good.

My 2016 only has 17k miles...1/2 of that mileage is wot, 1/8, 1/4mi street pulls. It's my fun car and has been well tested. Stock long block, upgraded fuel system, 10-11psi, E50-60.

You are such a rebel.

laynlo15 · 11-23-2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

I guess I have not ever looked closely enough at your positngs. I did not know that you are running the OEM LT1 pistons, and doing so at 10-11 psi. I did not know that you could do that, but I guess the ethanol and methmake a big difference?

Jim G

I am running the Lt1 on about the same boost as well, Kings been running the E for a good long while now although I ran it for 2 seasons in my 16 Lt1 C7. Its the real deal and I haven't heard anyone say they hated or didn't like it after they converted to it. Love it.

adamjwilson · 11-23-2022, 01:10 PM

Plus the speed shop does not recommend running E85 until I get a 1000 miles on the car. Car only has about 500 miles on the car so far
DSX fuel system ordered... now the waiting game. I appreciate all the comments above

Future1LE · 11-23-2022, 02:08 PM

I am also in the process of doing some fueling upgrades. Mine is a ZL1 with a Magnuson 2650 and I plan to do the toohighpsi port injection set up. It seems to be the most budget friendly and is still capable of reach my HP goal of 850-900whp. I didn't want to rely on meth for fueling and also did not feel like mixing E so I think with the port injection I can pump straight E85 from gas station without worrying. Our gas station E85 is more E67 tested. I guess one concern would be to see if you would need to modify the hood if you go with port plates and the Whipple 3.0.

11-23-2022, 07:25 AM	#1
adamjwilson Drives: 2022 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: FL Posts: 524	Upgrading Fuel System Upgrading my fuel system while the speed shop installs the Whipple 3.0 and some internal upgrades. I see Windhammer sells a Stage 1 and 2 GM fuel upgrade kit. Looks like a ZL low side in tank fuel pump and new injectors. Anything better out there on the market? Thanks- __________________ 2022 Camaro 2SS/ Whipple 3.0 / 2"Headers/ PRC LTX Heads/ Forged Internals/LT4 fueling/ DSX Aux/ DSX Flex Fuel/ Meth Injection/ Katech 112 TB/ RotoFab Big Gulp/ Corsa NPP/ Various exterior mods

11-23-2022, 08:42 AM	#3
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	-LT4 fueling high to low. If planning on running E85 then I wouldn't go with this unless you want to limit yourself to around 750-760whp of fuel support on E50. If you add Meth for supplemental fueling it will go a bit further. Only way I would do this is with forged pistons. +30 Injectors, LPE HPFP, Aux low side. This will get to around 850-900whp on E60 with no meth. +65 Injectors, LPE HPFP, triple pump low side. Need 43% lobe cam to maximize HPFP flow. Will Support 950-1000whp on full E with no Meth. -ToohighPSI port injection. Will support 1000whp on full E with stock LT1 fueling. Need at least an Aux low side. (Most cost effective solution) Meth is ok for forged piston stuff, but I wouldn't run it with stock pistons and pump gas. The LT1 engines break left and right from that combo. I am guessing distribution issues...the heat from being leaner will cause the rings to butt and break the piston. Also some LT1 engines have tighter clearances then others. These are great engines but the build quality consistency from one to the next is China. Either way it looks like you are doing forged pistons so really all you need to do is figure out where you plan to end up power wise and select your fuel system. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA Last edited by KingLT1; 11-23-2022 at 08:59 AM.

11-23-2022, 08:42 AM	#4
laynlo15 Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: clark, mo Posts: 8,860	I think you should have the same in tank that I do and I believe we have the Zl1 pump in that tank already. My pressures were much higher on logging then my C7 or my 16ss when stock. There are some other posts on this from a few months back. Some others had thought the same as it appears to have changed in 2019 or 2020. I have logs for all three cars and went back and looked at when they were stock and that's how I made my determination. I have the JMS it it really does help on the voltage plus I have the TooHighPsi port injection with the stock fuel system. __________________ 2022 Lt1 6.2 A10, Maggie 2300, THPSI Port Inj/10 rib, Rotofab, E, Nickey, SCOL, Griptech, RC Bandits, Hoosiers/MT 9.80@142.96 1.44 60ft, 6.34@112 707/669 RWHP/TRQ. 16SS Maggie 2650 9.41@147 1.35 60ft, 5.99@119. 16 C7 A8 10.90@128 Bolt on stuff

11-23-2022, 08:46 AM	#6
adamjwilson Drives: 2022 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: FL Posts: 524	I see Windhammer has the Stage 2 fuel kit- high and low side pumps and injectors (not sure size) Anything wrong with this kit? (I should note that my initial plans are not to exceed the 8-900 rwhp realm and not to track the car. More of a reliable fun weekend car- not the daily driver. I will sit in the stands on track/drag days and watch those guys/gals burn that $$$, as I know that is an addiction for speed - been there with boats and bikes) __________________ 2022 Camaro 2SS/ Whipple 3.0 / 2"Headers/ PRC LTX Heads/ Forged Internals/LT4 fueling/ DSX Aux/ DSX Flex Fuel/ Meth Injection/ Katech 112 TB/ RotoFab Big Gulp/ Corsa NPP/ Various exterior mods Last edited by adamjwilson; 11-23-2022 at 09:10 AM.

11-23-2022, 10:33 AM	#8
adamjwilson Drives: 2022 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: FL Posts: 524	Thanks for the info KingLT1- so I spoke to DSX Tuning- they recommend the aux pump kit, injectors, and H/S pump (on backorder). Matt did not recommend replacing the in tank l/s pump in the car. I do not have plans on running E85 initially, just pump gas 93 and meth. (the backwards logic to that is that I do not drive the car enough, so a tank of E85 may sit for months before I use it which is not a good thing) Any comments on what DSX is recommending? __________________ 2022 Camaro 2SS/ Whipple 3.0 / 2"Headers/ PRC LTX Heads/ Forged Internals/LT4 fueling/ DSX Aux/ DSX Flex Fuel/ Meth Injection/ Katech 112 TB/ RotoFab Big Gulp/ Corsa NPP/ Various exterior mods

11-23-2022, 08:34 AM	#2
Kerry Drives: 2019 2SS Camaro Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Al Posts: 828	You might not need the in tank on a 22. There's some thinking out their that the later models already have the lt4 in tank. According to my vin I do not have the lt4 low side but The jms booster works great on my 19. Im running the lt4 hp and injectors all the way to 5.2 with no drop at all in low side. I think its because the in tank dead heads into the high pressure pump. Not like the old rising rate regulators of the past that was always returning fuel to the tank. I never saw much out of boosting the voltage with that set up. Of course I dont know what kind of power u plan to mank just something to think on.

11-23-2022, 11:50 AM	#9
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	E85 can sit in your tank all winter and it's fine. Been doing it for years. Pour a little Lucas Ethanol stabilizer in the tank and you are good. My 2016 only has 17k miles...1/2 of that mileage is wot, 1/8, 1/4mi street pulls. It's my fun car and has been well tested. Stock long block, upgraded fuel system, 10-11psi, E50-60. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

11-23-2022, 01:10 PM	#13
adamjwilson Drives: 2022 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: FL Posts: 524	Plus the speed shop does not recommend running E85 until I get a 1000 miles on the car. Car only has about 500 miles on the car so far DSX fuel system ordered... now the waiting game. I appreciate all the comments above __________________ 2022 Camaro 2SS/ Whipple 3.0 / 2"Headers/ PRC LTX Heads/ Forged Internals/LT4 fueling/ DSX Aux/ DSX Flex Fuel/ Meth Injection/ Katech 112 TB/ RotoFab Big Gulp/ Corsa NPP/ Various exterior mods Last edited by adamjwilson; 11-23-2022 at 01:30 PM.

11-23-2022, 02:08 PM	#14
Future1LE Drives: 2020 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Earth Posts: 108	I am also in the process of doing some fueling upgrades. Mine is a ZL1 with a Magnuson 2650 and I plan to do the toohighpsi port injection set up. It seems to be the most budget friendly and is still capable of reach my HP goal of 850-900whp. I didn't want to rely on meth for fueling and also did not feel like mixing E so I think with the port injection I can pump straight E85 from gas station without worrying. Our gas station E85 is more E67 tested. I guess one concern would be to see if you would need to modify the hood if you go with port plates and the Whipple 3.0.

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