[SpeedIsLife]

Cost was absolutely a concern with the S550.

In "A Faster Horse" they have multiple discussions about overall cost and such. One point was made about a bolt or something like that...

When a change was asked for, they looked at the price difference of the part..."oh it's only $1 more...but if every car needs it, and you project that you're going to build 500,000 cars...suddenly you're spending $500,000 more of Fords money..that's not insignificant"

GM went for "make it as great as we can"...Ford went for "make it good enough for the money"

So while yes, GM did catch Ford with their pants down...Ford did go cheap with the S550 in some areas to keep the price of entry very low.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I don't think they went cheap with the S550, I think GM just caught them and just about everyone else with their pants down on how good the Alpha is. So if anything I would say it was shortsightedness on Ford's part. They didn't do a good enough job projecting how good the competition would be.

I do agree that they were caught. But cost was definitely a factor in the Mustang's production. In fact, there were lots of people who went to buy Camaros, couldn't afford it, and subsequently went and got approved for the Mustang GT. People were getting them way below MSRP which even at MSRP was still much cheaper than the Camaro. The only way they could sell THAT cheaply is if they were cheaper by a large margin to begin with.

[cbr1100xx]

I've yet to test drive an 1LE Camaro SS. I'm torn between that (if I want a manual) and the Mustang GT A10 (if I want an automatic). I test drove a base '18 Mustang GT A10 last night. Had no options except 301a package (toggles for modes, Sync 3..etc).

All I can is if I get an automatic it WILL be the Mustang GT. I was driving the thing in Normal mode and what a BEAST. Best automatic I've driven (better than ZF 8 in the Scat Pack or the A8 Camaro). And the stock exhaust sounds awesome.

But....I haven't driven a 1LE yet either. Also the Mustang prices are not great. Base cloth auto like mine with 301A, msrp of $40K. Discounts gets maybe to $36K. Still pricey for a base. But base is all I need in that car. The 3.15 gears were plenty good.

Going to test drive a 1LE too which I can get for $40K also. Both are great cars I'm sure. But the A10 in the GT is sublime. As I'm sure it is in the ZL1 (although never driven one).

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

I've yet to test drive an 1LE Camaro SS. I'm torn between that (if I want a manual) and the Mustang GT A10 (if I want an automatic). I test drove a base '18 Mustang GT A10 last night. Had no options except 301a package (toggles for modes, Sync 3..etc).

All I can is if I get an automatic it WILL be the Mustang GT. I was driving the thing in Normal mode and what a BEAST. Best automatic I've driven (better than ZF 8 in the Scat Pack or the A8 Camaro). And the stock exhaust sounds awesome.

But....I haven't driven a 1LE yet either. Also the Mustang prices are not great. Base cloth auto like mine with 301A, msrp of $40K. Discounts gets maybe to $36K. Still pricey for a base. But base is all I need in that car. The 3.15 gears were plenty good.

Going to test drive a 1LE too which I can get for $40K also. Both are great cars I'm sure. But the A10 in the GT is sublime. As I'm sure it is in the ZL1 (although never driven one).

Depending on what type of car and what level of performance you're coming from I can understand what you're saying. I test drove one several weeks ago and it was pretty quick. But it is still on par with the SS. One thing I did not like about the one I test drove is that it seemed a bit confused or unsure of what gear it should be in. I noted about 4 incidences where the trans was not in sync with me in a 20 minute drive. I've never had that issue at all in the year and a half that I've had my ZL1...completely different cars but I'm just saying. I would probably be more willing to get a GT over the SS but only if I planned to do some heavy mods (boost, suspension, etc).

[cbr1100xx]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Depending on what type of car and what level of performance you're coming from I can understand what you're saying. I test drove one several weeks ago and it was pretty quick. But it is still on par with the SS. One thing I did not like about the one I test drove is that it seemed a bit confused or unsure of what gear it should be in. I noted about 4 incidences where the trans was not in sync with me in a 20 minute drive. I've never had that issue at all in the year and a half that I've had my ZL1...completely different cars but I'm just saying. I would probably be more willing to get a GT over the SS but only if I planned to do some heavy mods (boost, suspension, etc).

Yes I heard some say the A10 in the mustang gets confused sometimes. I didn't experience that. But maybe a longer drive I'd notice. I know if you drive the PP A10 w/the 3.55 gears, it may have more of tendency to get confused since it will be shifting more often.

If I get the GT auto, it will be a base with maybe the black accent package for bigger wheels and tires and black roof. For $995 it's a no brainer really go get 255/19 vs 235/18, which are kind of a joke on this car. Just buy it and drive it and don't really care where I park it.

I'd keep it totally stock as I would a 1LE. But the 1LE is almost too pretty. That car I would care where I parked it and want clean those awesome wheels all the time. I'll be honest, I'm kind of sick that stuff, LOL.


I had a Whipple S2 '15 GT PP that made around 700hp at the crank. I bought it used. It came with the Whipple.
Yeah it was insane power but pretty much unusable on the street and I don't track cars. Always driving in "containment" mode. No interest in going that route again. The GT and SS 1LE have PLENTY of power for the street for me...more than enough. I'm usually a manual guy too but the A10 on the Mustang was so good, I got out of it thinking, "I don't know if I want a manual anymore, LOL".

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Cost was absolutely a concern with the S550.

In "A Faster Horse" they have multiple discussions about overall cost and such. One point was made about a bolt or something like that...

When a change was asked for, they looked at the price difference of the part..."oh it's only $1 more...but if every car needs it, and you project that you're going to build 500,000 cars...suddenly you're spending $500,000 more of Fords money..that's not insignificant"

GM went for "make it as great as we can"...Ford went for "make it good enough for the money"

So while yes, GM did catch Ford with their pants down...Ford did go cheap with the S550 in some areas to keep the price of entry very low.

Good post. This isn't to say the Camaro doesn't have it's issue, but when you talk about the overall mindset of the car...

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I do agree that they were caught. But cost was definitely a factor in the Mustang's production. In fact, there were lots of people who went to buy Camaros, couldn't afford it, and subsequently went and got approved for the Mustang GT. People were getting them way below MSRP which even at MSRP was still much cheaper than the Camaro. The only way they could sell THAT cheaply is if they were cheaper by a large margin to begin with.

I've spoken to a fair share of people outside of my "group" (track/autocross guys). I can say that beyond trunk size, the next factor for no buying the Camaro is the price - I've been stopped by a number of people in the near-by lower income neighborhoods (where I see a lot of Dodge Chargers) to talk about my car and people say they didn't buy the Camaro because they couldn't afford it.

Mustang is that far off in price, in respect to MSRP, but I see deals for them all the time. There may be better finance/lease deals on them too. For sure lease deals, as the lease deals are not that great for Camaro.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I've spoken to a fair share of people outside of my "group" (track/autocross guys). I can say that beyond trunk size, the next factor for no buying the Camaro is the price - I've been stopped by a number of people in the near-by lower income neighborhoods (where I see a lot of Dodge Chargers) to talk about my car and people say they didn't buy the Camaro because they couldn't afford it.

Mustang is that far off in price, in respect to MSRP, but I see deals for them all the time. There may be better finance/lease deals on them too. For sure lease deals, as the lease deals are not that great for Camaro.

During the small amount of time that I was on M6G forums that was one thing they talked about excessively. Pricing. A LOT of them complained about how Chevy dealerships would not give them a break on a Camaro SS but they could get a base GT for mid to high $20Ks. And even then they were trying to talk the dealerships down. Or I'd see posts about how it didn't matter how much faster the SS was because they could get a GT and use the leftover money (that they didn't even have in the first place since most of them couldn't afford a SS anyway) to mod the GT and make it faster.

My experiences was that a GT with every option available including nav, PP, performance package, 401a, and convertible could be had for approx $43K-$46K. A similarly optioned SS was in the low to mid $50K range. But again, the performance was that much ahead. Now we see the pricing is similar and the performance of the GT has taken a major turn so that it is finally a match for the SS. Well, minus the coolers. And they still can't match the ZL1. But performance costs money. And they're now seeing that the Camaro carried that price for a reason.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

During the small amount of time that I was on M6G forums that was one thing they talked about excessively. Pricing. A LOT of them complained about how Chevy dealerships would not give them a break on a Camaro SS but they could get a base GT for mid to high $20Ks. And even then they were trying to talk the dealerships down. Or I'd see posts about how it didn't matter how much faster the SS was because they could get a GT and use the leftover money (that they didn't even have in the first place since most of them couldn't afford a SS anyway) to mod the GT and make it faster.

My experiences was that a GT with every option available including nav, PP, performance package, 401a, and convertible could be had for approx $43K-$46K. A similarly optioned SS was in the low to mid $50K range. But again, the performance was that much ahead. Now we see the pricing is similar and the performance of the GT has taken a major turn so that it is finally a match for the SS. Well, minus the coolers. And they still can't match the ZL1. But performance costs money. And they're now seeing that the Camaro carried that price for a reason.

That's because many people barely budget for these types of cars, alone. Then, after they buy the car and save some money, they put money into it. Many Mustang owners, mostly the 20-30 year olders, are like that. I can say this because I've done that with a car before and from being involved with Mustang clubs.

The Gen 6 Camaro came out as an upper-level car from the Mustang. Really cool, but they (Chevy) didn't leave much for the "budget" crowd.

But when you get into the aftermarket, you start to see where who has the better chassis... (and it's not the one with MORE parts out there; think about that one).

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I do agree that they were caught. But cost was definitely a factor in the Mustang's production. In fact, there were lots of people who went to buy Camaros, couldn't afford it, and subsequently went and got approved for the Mustang GT. People were getting them way below MSRP which even at MSRP was still much cheaper than the Camaro. The only way they could sell THAT cheaply is if they were cheaper by a large margin to begin with.

Fair enough point taken

[FastCarFanBoy]

Any Camaro faster on drag pack only?

[ULTRAZLS1]

I ran 11.6 @118 with drag pack and cai. He has an h pipe resonator delete as well. Pretty comparable. So did at least two other guys I know of. Why no time slip ?

No doubt I could have went 11.5. Especially because I was running a tire over 28 tall at the time didn’t know better.

I have seen an 11.5@121 from a stock SS a8 with just rear wheels/dr on YouTube. Mineshaft air

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I ran 11.6 @118 with drag pack and cai. He has an h pipe resonator delete as well. Pretty comparable. So did at least two other guys I know of. Why no time slip ?

No doubt I could have went 11.5. Especially because I was running a tire over 28 tall at the time didn’t know better.

I have seen an 11.5@121 from a stock SS a8 with just rear wheels/dr on YouTube. Mineshaft air

It’s 2016 for the Mustang crowd.

Camaro SS A8... Running 11s since November 2015.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

It’s 2016 for the Mustang crowd.

Camaro SS A8... Running 11s* since November 2015.

*unless owned by "hotlap"

fixed.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Any Camaro faster on drag pack only?

My Camaro trapped 122 MPH. And I did a best of 11.8 my third time out in it and after not being to the track for 2 years prior to that. And I was stock on stock "street" settings with no launch and on the stock tires with 34 psi. Oh, and it was about 80 degrees out. Oh, and I didn't have a "drag pack", lol!!

So is this another one of those Mustangs that are "stock" with only a drag pack, intake, cai, exhaust, weight removed, DRs...?? LOL!!