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Old 01-24-2021, 06:31 PM   #57
JSH


 
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Originally Posted by Msquared View Post
If the only reason you want to run a 5w oil is to save money, then I can't argue with that because one choice isn't "better" than another when it comes to a cost:benefit decision. Earlier in this thread I noted that Rockauto sells M1 0W40 ESP for $6.72/qt. What other Dexos 2 5w30 or 5w40 can you get for half that price? The cheapest I've seen is the Amalie stuff at about $5.50/qt, so these days M1 is nowhere near twice the price. For $1.22/qt difference, to me it makes sense to run the specified oil. But that's just me.
I can't believe many here give a second thought to the cost difference between 0W and 5W. If you change oil 3 times/year you'll save enough for a cup of coffee.

I mean everyone is driving a $60-80k Camaro and discussing mods as high as $50k, so... really?
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4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.

Last edited by JSH; 01-24-2021 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:32 PM   #58
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Imagine using the M1 0w40 fs euro in the 12qt box for $35 and getting approved for the $20 rebate lol

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Old 01-24-2021, 07:04 PM   #59
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Hey Msquared,

Your logic is scientific, rational, and on-point regarding the oil weight options and implications. It would be great if you could take a look at the M6 trans thread I started recently in the Maintenance section and offer your views on the questions I posed as to whether the OEM fluid (and the new Tremec fluid) are more viscous than they should be for the TR6060 trans.
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:08 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue View Post
Imagine using the M1 0w40 fs euro in the 12qt box for $35 and getting approved for the $20 rebate lol
Enticing, but it's not Dexos 2, it has 1100ppm zinc (nearly as much as the 15w50). So probably not worth the risk to your cats IMO. But it's your car.

BTW, in that link it has an update with the zinc level for the 0w40 ESP, and I understated it. It's really 990ppm. I'll correct the post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N Camarolina
Your logic is scientific, rational, and on-point regarding the oil weight options and implications. It would be great if you could take a look at the M6 trans thread I started recently in the Maintenance section and offer your views on the questions I posed as to whether the OEM fluid (and the new Tremec fluid) are more viscous than they should be for the TR6060 trans.
Thanks. The thing is I don't think I know enough about manual trans lubrication to give an well informed opinion! I'll take a look at it, though.
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Old 01-24-2021, 10:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
I can't believe many here give a second thought to the cost difference between 0W and 5W. If you change oil 3 times/year you'll save enough for a cup of coffee.

I mean everyone is driving a $60-80k Camaro and discussing mods as high as $50k, so... really?
I drive a $47k CAD Camaro with zero mods. My track budget is $20k per season. If i can save 50% on a maintenance item without cutting down on quality i will surely do it. Cheers!
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:15 PM   #62
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Up to a point. But even 0w40 at 40C has almost four times higher viscosity of 15w50 at 100C. All oils have really high viscosity at ambient summer temps (30-40C). Going from 69mm2/s to 79mm2/s doesn't provide better protection.


Well, the 15w50 only has 31% higher zinc than 0w40 ESP.* OTOH, I didn't say there was a "huge" difference in cold-start flow. I just said 5w leaves your lubricated parts unlubricated 14% longer than 0w when you start up cool or cold, with no downside in other aspects of lubrication. It does one thing better and nothing worse - that's all.


At least from 2020 forward (maybe earlier?) the use of 5w30 Dexos 2 is only approved if 0w40 Dexos 2 is not available. The manual is clear that 0w40 is the recommended oil. Using your own logic, if 0w were really worse at protecting your car during a cold start in warm temps, then GM wouldn't approve it, and they certainly wouldn't use it as factory fill!


Your point earlier was that 0w40 provides worse startup protection unless it's -35C outside; or in other posts that they protect the same at startup. Those are the only points to which I've been replying. My point is that this is incorrect. I agree that running a 5w30 or 5w40 isn't going to cause your car to suddenly self-destruct. But not only is 0w40 not worse than 5w40 for an engine like you said, it's actually better. That's my point.

If the only reason you want to run a 5w oil is to save money, then I can't argue with that because one choice isn't "better" than another when it comes to a cost:benefit decision. Earlier in this thread I noted that Rockauto sells M1 0W40 ESP for $6.72/qt. What other Dexos 2 5w30 or 5w40 can you get for half that price? The cheapest I've seen is the Amalie stuff at about $5.50/qt, so these days M1 is nowhere near twice the price. For $1.22/qt difference, to me it makes sense to run the specified oil. But that's just me.

*I screwed up the amount of zinc in both! 15w50 has 1300ppm zinc, but 0w40ESP has 990.
No probs. I have spec sheets for all and believe i have quoted them in my sticky, but was too lazy to double check

Now that you have narrowed it down:

I will concede, that 5w40 won't give better cold start protection per se. But i will rephrase it: both will provide fantastic level of cold start protection. With an edge going to 0w40 if the temp is -40 vs -30C. So as i had said earlier, we are splitting hairs. For me anyway as i only drive mine in summer time. And because GM themselves give 4 oils to pick from if one looks at a broader official documentation vs just the 2020 owners manual. Including advice from Chief Engineers.

However, i must admit, that given Rockauto sells Mobil1 ESP Formula Dexos2 for $8 CAD per L, that sure changes a lot and you are correct, i cannot find another suitable oil at 50% off given that price. But, as recently as last year, the pricing was very different and effectively Motul 5w40 Dexos2 was indeed 50% cheaper. That's $400+ bucks for the season for me...I also need to check how much delivery and customs would cost for me. Hopefully this is a permanent market pricing change vs one off.

Anyhow, always good to learn something and exchange info, even if we do not see exactly eye to eye on all details.

Cheers!

PS I could indeed save 50% if i decided to run 5w30 (which is not Dexos2, but Dexos1.2 btw). But, this oil is not authorized for track, since i will not. Even though, it was oil of choice for my modded C5Z for a decade of track duty. But, different motor and different times...
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:27 PM   #63
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It blows me away everyone here has a roughly $40k-$80k car and you all are worried about a a hundred or so dollars per year on oil... REALLY???

I'll say it yet again... "Fluids are CHEAP, components are NOT!... Choose wisely..." This ain't rocket science!!!
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Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

Left: My "fun" ride. Right: My "work" ride: a Gulfstream G600. One's top speed is 180 Mph, the other, 620 Mph...
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:46 PM   #64
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It blows me away everyone here has a roughly $40k-$80k car and you all are worried about a a hundred or so dollars per year on oil... REALLY???

I'll say it yet again... "Fluids are CHEAP, components are NOT!... Choose wisely..." This ain't rocket science!!!
Some of us change oil more often than once a year and i would advise you: so should you.

This is not about going "cheap" on quality. Both 0w40 and 5w40 Dexos2 are officially approved by GM as top drawer choices.
Read the spec sheets! Those oils are practically identical and hence both get Dexos2 certifications. Of i can spend $8 per L vs $20 per quart for the same quality, why the heck not?

Other than that, i fully agree with your statement: maintenance is cheap in comparison to tearing up the car for component replacements. BUT, none of the oils certified and recommended by GM will ever lead to this. That's my point.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:53 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
Some of us change oil more often than once a year and i would advise you: so should you.

This is not about going "cheap" on quality. Both 0w40 and 5w40 Dexos2 are officially approved by GM as top drawer choices.
Read the spec sheets! Those oils are practically identical and hence both get Dexos2 certifications. Of i can spend $8 per L vs $20 per quart for the same quality, why the heck not?

Other than that, i fully agree with your statement: maintenance is cheap in comparison to tearing up the car for component replacements. BUT, none of the oils certified and recommended by GM will ever lead to this. That's my point.
I changed my oil at 505 miles, 1,500 miles and will again at 3,500-4,000 miles (using Mobil 1 0W-40 ESP Formula at roughly $100 per oil change) and I do NOT track my car (I also changed my differential fluid at 500 mile AND 1500 miles as well! Cheap insurance)...

My point wasn't $100 per year to change oil, it was the $100 per year DIFFERENCE from going with some unapproved, cheap oil to going with the approved oil (the delta on say 3 changes per year is maybe $100)...

I have ALWAYS gone by the philosophy that "fluids are cheap, components are not!"... I ALWAYS error on the side of caution when changing the fluids in my vehicles...

Even ALL of my family "Daily Driver" cars get full synthetic oil changes every 3,000 miles (Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 and a new OEM filter at every change)... Even my youngest daughter's 2007 (bought new in July 2006) Hyundai Santa Fe which now has 140,000+ miles still looks like new in the valve covers... Money well spent... The thing still doesn't burn any oil between changes... Runs like a top!!!
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Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

Left: My "fun" ride. Right: My "work" ride: a Gulfstream G600. One's top speed is 180 Mph, the other, 620 Mph...
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:58 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SS Capt View Post
I changed my oil at 505 miles, 1,500 miles and will again at 3,500-4,000 miles (using Mobil 1 0W-40 ESP Formula at roughly $100 per oil change) and I do NOT track my car (I also changed my differential fluid at 500 mile AND 1500 miles as well! Cheap insurance)...

My point wasn't $100 per year to change oil, it was the $100 per year DIFFERENCE from going with some unapproved, cheap oil to going with the approved oil (the delta on say 3 changes per year is maybe $100)...

I have ALWAYS gone by the philosophy that "fluids are cheap, components are not!"... I ALWAYS error on the side of caution when changing the fluids in my vehicles...
Excellent and i absolutely applaud you. Seriously!

Too many folks wait till the computer says 0 life left on oil...
You gave me this impression by mentioning $100 per year.
My difference is much more than that per single fill between Mobil1 and Motul.

Also agree, i would NEVER use any unapproved fluid in any of my vehicles. Period. Full stop. And i always change oil at 50% life in all my vehicles. And there is a good reason for that.

Cheers!
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:11 AM   #67
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Excellent and i absolutely applaud you. Seriously!

Too many folks wait till the computer says 0 life left on oil...
You gave me this impression by mentioning $100 per year.
My difference is much more than that per single fill between Mobil1 and Motul.

Also agree, i would NEVER use any unapproved fluid in any of my vehicles. Period. Full stop. And i always change oil at 50% life in all my vehicles. And there is a good reason for that.

Cheers!
EXACTLY!!! "Fluids are cheap, components are NOT!!!"

Change your damn fluids, it is cheap insurance!!!

"If you can't afford the proper maintenance on a Camaro, you can't afford the Camaro!!!"

If you are wringing your hands over a $100 oil change, go buy something else, you bought the WRONG car...
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Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

Left: My "fun" ride. Right: My "work" ride: a Gulfstream G600. One's top speed is 180 Mph, the other, 620 Mph...
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:30 AM   #68
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Well, being in engineering, efficiency is something that I care about.

If I can get pretty much the same thing for less money, why not?
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:59 AM   #69
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Anyhow, always good to learn something and exchange info, even if we do not see exactly eye to eye on all details.
Absolutely!
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Old 01-25-2021, 08:06 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 2SS Capt View Post
I'll say it yet again... "Fluids are CHEAP, components are NOT!... Choose wisely..." This ain't rocket science!!!
As I said at the start of this thread, I use the recommended 0W40 Dexos 2. Most of the other posts involve an argument about whether or not 5W will suffice.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650.
100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O.
2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel.
4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.
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