[Val Walkinshaw]

'18 2SS
Problem I'm encountering I suspect is tire related and thus exxagerated due to a some friendly mustang competition.
I need some advice before I purchase new tires and rims.

Mustang GT auto with the track package outperformed me in the corners this weekend. However my manual shifting in the straight aways surprisingly outperformed him.

Replaced the stock GY's with MPS4S which now have 1200 miles on them. Since day 1 I feel like the performance just isn't there. Seems like the car is always pushing in the corners. Did 250 miles of some very technical fast driving this weekend. Full of oh shit moments and way too many hills but plenty of curves. I ran 50 miles at 32/33 psi and then tried 30 psi. Temps staying in the 80's for the most part. I've asked questions like this on FB and many folks have said they are happy with the MPS4S and to not write them off yet. I do have an aggressive driving style. That being said I feel like the rear end rarely broke loose with the GYs under heavy acceleration but commonly does with the MPS4S.

My understanding based on what I've read in these groups regarding the MPS4S sweet spot is 28-30 cold to achieve 30-32 warm.

My possibly skewed perception is that folks with more experience that are superior drivers have had better experience with the MPS4S. So what am I missing?

Any suggestions welcome.

[glamcem]

You're not missing anything, you answered your own question. GY (assuming stock 1LE tires) are much better. PS4S and PSS are two lap tires .. magazines use them two laps in their tests so their numbers/performance are misleading in real world conditions.

I would stick to Goodyear SC tires (OEM ss 1le/zl1) and call it a day . It sounds like you just need a predictable and consistent tires. Not everyone's skill and experience level is the same so I would take those PS4S comments by a grain of salt..it sounds like they're holding you back (which may not ve the case foe many)

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by glamcem

You're not missing anything, you answered your own question. GY (assuming stock 1LE tires) are much better. PS4S and PSS are two lap tires .. magazines use them two laps in their tests so their numbers/performance are misleading in real world conditions.

I would stick to Goodyear SC tires (OEM ss 1le/zl1) and call it a day . It sounds like you just need a predictable and consistent tires. Not everyone's skill and experience level is the same so I would take those PS4S comments by a grain of salt..it sounds like they're holding you back (which may not ve the case foe many)

Agreed.
The tires underperforms for my everyday driving and it's been disappointing to me. I'm not an asshole but when I want grip and enjoy spirited driving (Tail of the Dragon or back country roads) I expect the tire to be there.
These tires are a no go for autoX and as a DD for me.
Surprising as I read so many good things about them.

Sigh.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by glamcem

You're not missing anything, you answered your own question. GY (assuming stock 1LE tires) are much better. PS4S and PSS are two lap tires .. magazines use them two laps in their tests so their numbers/performance are misleading in real world conditions.

I would stick to Goodyear SC tires (OEM ss 1le/zl1) and call it a day . It sounds like you just need a predictable and consistent tires. Not everyone's skill and experience level is the same so I would take those PS4S comments by a grain of salt..it sounds like they're holding you back (which may not ve the case foe many)

^This. Not only are the GYSC3 better they are cheaper than MPS4S... at least on TireRack.

MPS4S - ~1587.00
GYSC3 - ~1179.00

[Stephen12ZL1]

pushing the limits the GYs are better...everyday driving or in rain the MP4 wins

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

'18 2SS
Problem I'm encountering I suspect is tire related and thus exxagerated due to a some friendly mustang competition.

I do have an aggressive driving style.

Chances are that the Michelins reward a smoother driving style.

Out of curiosity, what tires was the Mustang running?


Norm

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Chances are that the Michelins reward a smoother driving style.

Out of curiosity, what tires was the Mustang running?


Norm

A smoother driving style. That's the most polite way of saying what I've been explaining. I like it.

The tires couldn't meet the demands of the driver. They seemed to underperform for me in many corners that the mustang had no problem handling.
He was running two psi higher on the exact same tires. The MPS4S come stock on that vehicle.. Weight wise he's 153 pounds more than me including difference in driver weight.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by glamcem

You're not missing anything, you answered your own question. GY (assuming stock 1LE tires) are much better. PS4S and PSS are two lap tires .. magazines use them two laps in their tests so their numbers/performance are misleading in real world conditions.

I would stick to Goodyear SC tires (OEM ss 1le/zl1) and call it a day . It sounds like you just need a predictable and consistent tires. Not everyone's skill and experience level is the same so I would take those PS4S comments by a grain of salt..it sounds like they're holding you back (which may not ve the case foe many)

When you say the magazines refer to the mentioned tires as 2 lap tires.....would you include Tire Rack and TR reviews into that group?

[Alpha1BC]

Track alignment will also help a lot if you haven't done that yet. Will make the car much more neutral instead of plowing. Can probably target the SS 1LE track alignment spec instead of the SS track spec as well.

Aside from that, I also agree with what others are saying. The Michelin's are great as a DD tire to push on the street every now and then, but they won't stand up to the GY on the track.

And, as a last resort, like Norm said can try to adopt a smoother driving style. Can always post some video up for free and (usually) useful critiquing if you have anything to share!

[Redlinez]

I won't go into my experiences with tires, but have you been on track like HPDE with an instructor?

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Alpha1BC

Track alignment will also help a lot if you haven't done that yet. Will make the car much more neutral instead of plowing. Can probably target the SS 1LE track alignment spec instead of the SS track spec as well.

Aside from that, I also agree with what others are saying. The Michelin's are great as a DD tire to push on the street every now and then, but they won't stand up to the GY on the track.

And, as a last resort, like Norm said can try to adopt a smoother driving style. Can always post some video up for free and (usually) useful critiquing if you have anything to share!

Oh I can drive smooth....
I can even be normal!

But I don't want to:-)

When a more reserved, cautious driving style is warranted I feel confident in adjusting my throttle response/feathering to achieve such. However when it's optional and safe to do so I will unleash my inner beast aka lead foot. I enjoy spirited driving. The Camaro is never driven in inclement weather nor is she a DD. Her and I escape reality together whether it's Sunday driving off into the sunset or looking to improve 0-60 times.

I realize now that if she was a DD the MPS4S would be the perfect choice for me.

With as much research as I did I realize the opinions from those who are track focused vs autoX focused differ widely. My intent was to purchase quality tires that would be versatile as well as last longer than the 10k GYs did for me.

I believe my focus has shifted a bit since I bought them, which is no fault of Michelin. At this point I need to adjust my search accordingly.

In talking with pkautodesign earlier today I've come to understand that wheels and tires will require some 2+ weeks wait time on my behalf. Sigh:-(

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by glamcem

You're not missing anything, you answered your own question. GY (assuming stock 1LE tires) are much better. PS4S and PSS are two lap tires .. magazines use them two laps in their tests so their numbers/performance are misleading in real world conditions.

I would stick to Goodyear SC tires (OEM ss 1le/zl1) and call it a day . It sounds like you just need a predictable and consistent tires. Not everyone's skill and experience level is the same so I would take those PS4S comments by a grain of salt..it sounds like they're holding you back (which may not ve the case foe many)

Cem, i think you are confusing your Michelins here. The PS4S and PSS are great street tires that are OK on track. The 2 lap hero magazine tires are the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s (MPSC2).

[Mountain]

Wait, your car is a 2SS, not a 2SS 1LE? I think some here are thinking you are in a 1LE...

20X8.5/20X9.5, 245/275 tires?

Any significant amount of camber up front?

[Val Walkinshaw]

Embarrassingly true. I do only have an SS.

Alignment is factory specs
I have not found anyone yet to do a track alignment. I suspect a more negative camber will help my car immensely.