[TMR]

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

2:30 +/-

Best lap 2:28:84

Lap time limitation now is the driver

Shooting for something in the 2:27s this season. I know where it is. I just need to trust the Force.

Oh yea, that car can go 2:27 no question.

[2010REDSS]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

So really then, you are in essence spending more money over time. $500 for pads, $1k for rings, each needed twice a year on average. That's about $3k more than I spend now ha. Gotta love stock pads and rotors... They just don't cut it w/ the added aero and tires. Wasn't happy with DTC70's either.

Sean,

Like the old racing saying goes....

"How fast can you make it go?"
"It depends, how fast you wanna spend?"



Do you have full stainless lines on your oem Brembo setup?

It was another big plus from the AP upgrade. Feels like you're stepping on a brick. No more give in the pedal.

I think you'd be okay just buying AP fronts....they indicate that you can use the Brembo rears....

You won't be disappointed.

[kramard]

I'm really interested in this thread - would love to look at deceleration data from your events if you have it.

With APs I've seen two separate ZLEs (but the same brake kit moved from one car to another) not outperform a stock car (stock pads, brakes, 3rs). Some observations raising for discussion:

• Case 1 (APs, A7s, Aero): A7s and APs had no detectable increase in braking performance over stock; unclear if it was driver or brake system but Kyle and I matched braking performance at 1.42 - 1.39g through VIR's main straight brake zone (similar observations in other brake zones as well).
• Case 2 (Same AP kit referenced above but on a different ZLE with a different driver, A7s): The AP kit actually extended the brake zone on Summit Main's front stretch by 50ft - 75ft; braking performance was down to 1.2g however the driver had enhanced grip, acceleration etc throughout other phases of the corner and ran PBs

In both cases, APs just upfront I believe and stock brakes outperformed APs. Important to note: my brakes are cooked after 15 minutes (so if the requirement is to go longer, no way stockers can do that if you're pushing hard). I do TT work, so, I have 3 - 4 laps to set a laptime and then wrap up more or less and head in because the tires are nuked.

I spoke with a few shops/race teams and they believe the braking system could be g limited e.g., throwing tires and brakes at it may not enhance the overall performance of the system. Short of me driving an AP car and looking at the data not sure how to validate that hypothesis. Curious if anyone has run into this. Unfortunately, after looking at the data I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on APs atm.

[Akirasoft]

Originally Posted by kramard

I spoke with a few shops/race teams and they believe the braking system could be g limited e.g., throwing tires and brakes at it may not enhance the overall performance of the system. Short of me driving an AP car and looking at the data not sure how to validate that hypothesis. Curious if anyone has run into this. Unfortunately, after looking at the data I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on APs atm.

curious what you mean by this? 1.42G decel no matter the level of grip and heat shedding ability of the system?

[kramard]

Originally Posted by Akirasoft

curious what you mean by this? 1.42G decel no matter the level of grip and heat shedding ability of the system?

That's what the data may imply. I don't have evidence in any data that I've been able to review that a higher sustained deceleration amount is achievable. I'm looking to run Hoosiers or slicks at UTCC in July so I'll have first-hand data then.

[breakskeet]

Just ordered my 390 kit for the front and 365 kit for the rears.
MSRP $5499 for the fronts and $4099 for the rears.

Rear calipers are out of stock at the moment and should be in next week. Front kits will probably take another week or two. Call Clark at AP.

[breakskeet]

Originally Posted by kramard

I'm really interested in this thread - would love to look at deceleration data from your events if you have it.

With APs I've seen two separate ZLEs (but the same brake kit moved from one car to another) not outperform a stock car (stock pads, brakes, 3rs). Some observations raising for discussion:

• Case 1 (APs, A7s, Aero): A7s and APs had no detectable increase in braking performance over stock; unclear if it was driver or brake system but Kyle and I matched braking performance at 1.42 - 1.39g through VIR's main straight brake zone (similar observations in other brake zones as well).
• Case 2 (Same AP kit referenced above but on a different ZLE with a different driver, A7s): The AP kit actually extended the brake zone on Summit Main's front stretch by 50ft - 75ft; braking performance was down to 1.2g however the driver had enhanced grip, acceleration etc throughout other phases of the corner and ran PBs

In both cases, APs just upfront I believe and stock brakes outperformed APs. Important to note: my brakes are cooked after 15 minutes (so if the requirement is to go longer, no way stockers can do that if you're pushing hard). I do TT work, so, I have 3 - 4 laps to set a laptime and then wrap up more or less and head in because the tires are nuked.

I spoke with a few shops/race teams and they believe the braking system could be g limited e.g., throwing tires and brakes at it may not enhance the overall performance of the system. Short of me driving an AP car and looking at the data not sure how to validate that hypothesis. Curious if anyone has run into this. Unfortunately, after looking at the data I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on APs atm.

I wouldn't expect the AP brakes or any other brake set for that matter to significantly shorten braking distance. Brakes don't stop your car, tires do. Want to stop in a shorter distance? Then buy stickier tires.

The real reason why one should upgrade to AP brakes is seen in your important note. The stock brakes won't stand up to high heat lap after lap.

From AP's website:

Q: Will your brake kit significantly shorten my stopping distances with all else held equal?

A: No!Tires stop your car.Brakes turn the energy of the spinning brake discs into heat.The primary function of a properly designed big brake kit to withstand the heat encountered during the repetitive and heavy use of the brakes.Anyone who sells you a brake kit specifically to shorten your stopping distances is lying to you.If you want shorter stopping distances, buy stickier tires. If you want your brakes to feel exactly the same on the last lap of the day as they did on the first lap, buy our brake kit.

[2010REDSS]

Originally Posted by breakskeet

I wouldn't expect the AP brakes or any other brake set for that matter to significantly shorten braking distance. Brakes don't stop your car, tires do. Want to stop in a shorter distance? Then buy stickier tires.

The real reason why one should upgrade to AP brakes is seen in your important note. The stock brakes won't stand up to high heat lap after lap.

From AP's website:

Q: Will your brake kit significantly shorten my stopping distances with all else held equal?

A: No!Tires stop your car.Brakes turn the energy of the spinning brake discs into heat.The primary function of a properly designed big brake kit to withstand the heat encountered during the repetitive and heavy use of the brakes.Anyone who sells you a brake kit specifically to shorten your stopping distances is lying to you.If you want shorter stopping distances, buy stickier tires. If you want your brakes to feel exactly the same on the last lap of the day as they did on the first lap, buy our brake kit.

+1 Spot on.

I run 25 to 30 minute sessions (Chin at Road Atlanta this weekend are 30min sessions) and the OEM Brembos just can't put away that much heat over that long a period. The last 10mins of the session is where you are really building some pace, getting sorted through traffic, starting to chase down the GT2's and the brakes start to go away.

The last sentence of the paragraph from Essex/AP is why I bought them. The tires limit stopping distance on these 3,800lb cars.

[breakskeet]

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

+1 Spot on.

I run 25 to 30 minute sessions (Chin at Road Atlanta this weekend are 30min sessions) and the OEM Brembos just can't put away that much heat over that long a period. The last 10mins of the session is where you are really building some pace, getting sorted through traffic, starting to chase down the GT2's and the brakes start to go away.

The last sentence of the paragraph from Essex/AP is why I bought them. The tires limit stopping distance on these 3,800lb cars.

I feel your pain. I run at Sebring and I get about 15 min in on a 30 min session and I am really starting to stretch things out after getting through traffic and running some good times. After that I'm starting to skate around on hot brakes and hot tires because I am asking for what the brakes were capable of two laps ago.

When your brakes get too hot the tires get too hot. Hot brakes transfer a tremendous amount of heat to the tire.

[seanblurr]

Break,

Do you have 18's by any chance? Real curious to try fitment with the 390 kit. Wade @ Essex is unsure/doesnt think they will clear.

[breakskeet]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

Break,

Do you have 18's by any chance? Real curious to try fitment with the 390 kit. Wade @ Essex is unsure/doesnt think they will clear.

I don't. I'm running the stock size wheels. I have the OE set and a set of the Apex ARC-8 (ET11 and ET41). I am as curious as you. Its gonna be close. My gut feeling is that they won't. Maybe when I get them installed I can take some pics and measurements for you.

[TMR]

I agree with the above, I upgraded to essex kit because the last 10-15 minutes of my 30 min sessions are my favorite and on stock brakes the pedal goes to the floor.
Now I run as hard a I want for 30 minutes and the essex brakes feel the same the entire time. Very impressive.

I also will note too. My stock 3R tires are the limiting factor for how fast I can slowdown, not the brakes.

[Repman]

Originally Posted by TMR

I agree with the above, I upgraded to essex kit because the last 10-15 minutes of my 30 min sessions are my favorite and on stock brakes the pedal goes to the floor.
Now I run as hard a I want for 30 minutes and the essex brakes feel the same the entire time. Very impressive.

I also will note too. My stock 3R tires are the limiting factor for how fast I can slowdown, not the brakes.

Racing brake makes stainless pots and high temp seals and dust covers for the stock calipers has anyone tried those? if so has that helped with the heat ?I also saw that KNS brakes has titanium shields not sure if they help also ? Garage therapy had a venting kit but discontinued because they could not source one of the parts long term but getting some cold air on the rotor would be a plus

[waterman]

Great thread, continuing to follow for info/opinions on Essex upgrade and fittment of larger diameter rotors.

For those who are having fading issues with OEM Brembos; it would be helpful to know what type of stop juice that you are using, frequency of bleed and change out. As well as if there are/were any upgrades to SS or CF brake lines. I have observed that the OEM lines are prone to soften up and expand when brakes are hot.

Consequently, I have seen a significant reduction in fading after upgrading to CF lines and I'm thoroughly impressed with RS683 (stock Brembos, pads and 3Rs). FWIW.

Thanks again in advance for your feedback and opinions.