[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The fact of the matter is that you're comparing a Base C8 Vette with Z51 package to the second highest trim C7 Vette available. If you're talking about ONLY the performance metrics and nothing else then the C8 Z51 is a $65K car while the C7 Z06 is an $80K car. Because if performance is the only metric then that is just the Base 1LT ($59,995) plus the Z51 package ($5,000). I am not sure if MRC was added onto the car that was tested. And the C8 beats the C7 Z06 in something while matching it somewhere else. That speaks volumes.

Anyway I would prefer the C8. Actually I'd buy both. But if I had to pick one or the other I'd go with the C8 for sure. Heck I could go out a buy a used 18 C7 Z06 3LZ for less than what my C8 will come to. But I'll take the C8.

It looks like you're trying to find fault somewhere for some reason. So the C8 Z51 doesn't stop as well as the C7 Z51 yet it does everything else better and you're disappointed? Let me ask, does it absolutely HAVE to stop better than the C7 Z51? Obviously it doesn't since it went around a track almost a full second faster. Perhaps the C7s just had some phenomenal brake ability. Does that make the C8 less than great?

So far the C8 has not disappointed. Overall it is a killer performer. And it will get better. There may be some tweaks that need to be done. But hey, afterall, didn't the 2018 Mustang GT do only a 12.5 and 12.6 in the first couple outings? Didn't they snap axles and driveshafts the first few times they were on tracks? I remember we discussed that last year as it was happening. Didn't the GT350 have overheating issues and fire safety issues thus needing a major recall after 1-2 years of production? Didn't the 2015 GTs have NVH issues, hood shaking issues at highway speeds, etc for the first couple years? Are you disappointed in Ford???

So not being able to stop as fast as the previous Gen is not that big a deal and certainly not enough to be disappointed considering what Ford has had to deal with.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the expectation for some here was that the C8 Z51 would outperform the C7 Z06 in every (or most?) measure based on what GM has said. Maybe I misinterpreted or am mis-remembering. Some of us were skeptical of that claim (me included). Based on the track time (admittedly only 1 time so far), the C8 Z51 will likely not be faster than a C7 Z06 around a track. For me, I am not surprised, the C7 Z06 is a beast. The only performance metric the C8 Z51 will beat the Z06 in is 0-30 mph. Grip, brakes, track times, acceleration beyond 30 mph, the Z06 rules over the C8 Z51.

I'm not trying to find fault. I'm not disappointed in Chevy/GM/or the C8 overall. It's an amazing car. But to say that it is a little disappointing (not the overall car, but these specific measures) that it has significantly worse brakes and less grip than the C7 Z51 I think is fair, considering it was supposed to exceed the C7 Z51 in every performance category and match or beat the Z06 in most. It's faster around a track than the C7 Z51, but with equal brakes and grip, it would be even quicker.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Lol.. you say that while loading your question and subsequent post with stipulations.

For me personally a discounted 19 m7 1lz z06 would be a tough choice vs a 2020 z51.

C7 Z comes with a manual, last model year so it has been sorted out, tons of aftermarket options, probably more usable space, and better looking imo.

C8 is the new hotness, NA power, way better performance per dollar, still very ergonomic, auto is dct instead of slushbox, it's the more exotic looking car imo.

I only said at similar price points in my original post. Nothing wrong w/ that. At ~$89k for each, you get a highly optioned C8 Z51 and medium optioned C7 Z06. The Z06 will outperform the C8 Z51 in everything but 0-30 mph (and thus 0-60 from a stand still), but the C8 will be nicer, more luxurious and have more features. So it's a fair question. Personally, it would be a tough choice. I love the C7 Z06...but no doubt about the allure of the ME C8 is there!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is hard to say. I don't know if disappointed would be the right word. Straight line acceleration if anyone says they are not impressed I don't believe them. The braking thing shocks me a little bit, and some of the other things reviews have picked up do shock me a bit. But like you said, and I said earlier it might not show up in the stat sheet- but it showed up in the track where it matters.

Hey blaq, and its way early to ask this as we only have 1 lap time. You were pretty sure a few pages ago that the C8 Z51 would be able to put up better lap times than the ZLE. Are you a little disappointed?


Me personally, I am blown away by the straight line speed. I am kind of in shock at how fast it is. and at the same time I am kind of shocked that it's braking and other metrics aren't better than the C7 Z51 - especially after one of the engineers said it would be better than the C7 Z06 in most ways. Also it's only 1 lap time, so we will need to wait and see but I thought it would be a bit faster than a second faster than the C7-Z51. Again this is probably mostly due to the hype that came with the car. The comments from engineers, the comments here, the fact that GM has gone so far performance wise from generation to generation that maybe I expected more.

And absolutely none of that would stop me from buying one though lol. If I was in the market and could spend around 70K on a toy the C8 would be it with 0 questions asked. The C8 is a huge win in my book. I might have set my expectations high or fell in the hype train but the car to me is still a total game changer and a total win.

Agreed. That Z06 comment tipped the expectations significantly, IMO.

But yes, the C8 Z51 is awesome, despite not bettering the C7 in all categories. 0-60 in 2.8 seconds is insane. 122-123 mph trap speed is very good - right on the heels of the ZL1 trap (125 mph) with a lot less power.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Correct me if I'm wrong but the expectation for some here was that the C8 Z51 would outperform the C7 Z06 in every (or most?) measure based on what GM has said. Maybe I misinterpreted or am mis-remembering. Some of us were skeptical of that claim (me included). Based on the track time (admittedly only 1 time so far), the C8 Z51 will likely not be faster than a C7 Z06 around a track. For me, I am not surprised, the C7 Z06 is a beast. The only performance metric the C8 Z51 will beat the Z06 in is 0-30 mph. Grip, brakes, track times, acceleration beyond 30 mph, the Z06 rules over the C8 Z51.

I'm not trying to find fault. I'm not disappointed in Chevy/GM/or the C8 overall. It's an amazing car. But to say that it is a little disappointing (not the overall car, but these specific measures) that it has significantly worse brakes and less grip than the C7 Z51 I think is fair, considering it was supposed to exceed the C7 Z51 in every performance category and match or beat the Z06 in most. It's faster around a track than the C7 Z51, but with equal brakes and grip, it would be even quicker.

That was based on a post on Corvetteblogger that quoted Ed Piatek as having stated that the C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in every way. I stated here that if Ed Piatek said it I believe it and the discussion took off from there. I soon after had the opportunity to ask Ed directly (I know Ed very well. I supported his team and sat about 30 yards from his office when I was at GM). Ed CLARIFIED his statement and also told me he had asked (TOLD is more likely) Corvetteblogger to fix the statement.

What Ed told me was that C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in acceleration up until the horsepower difference overcame the advantage in traction that C8 has....somewhere over 100 mph. I am intentionally inserting the word “Stingray” because it is clearly what Ed is talking about, since he famously “does not discuss future product” such as the C8 Z06.

Ed also told me, because I asked, that the C8 Stingray would not outperform the C7 Z06 on the track, but would deliver surprising results nonetheless.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That was based on a post on Corvetteblogger that quoted Ed Piatek as having stated that the C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in every way. I stated here that if Ed Piatek said it I believe it and the discussion took off from there. I soon after had the opportunity to ask Ed directly (I know Ed very well. I supported his team and sat about 30 yards from his office when I was at GM). Ed CLARIFIED his statement and also told me he had asked (TOLD is more likely) Corvetteblogger to fix the statement.

What Ed told me was that C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in acceleration up until the horsepower difference overcame the advantage in traction that C8 has....somewhere over 100 mph. I am intentionally inserting the word “Stingray” because it is clearly what Ed is talking about, since he famously “does not discuss future product” such as the C8 Z06.

Ed also told me, because I asked, that the C8 Stingray would not outperform the C7 Z06 on the track, but would deliver surprising results nonetheless.

Ah yes, I remember that now. Thanks for the clarification. False info. Is hard to put down once it’s out there.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That was based on a post on Corvetteblogger that quoted Ed Piatek as having stated that the C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in every way. I stated here that if Ed Piatek said it I believe it and the discussion took off from there. I soon after had the opportunity to ask Ed directly (I know Ed very well. I supported his team and sat about 30 yards from his office when I was at GM). Ed CLARIFIED his statement and also told me he had asked (TOLD is more likely) Corvetteblogger to fix the statement.

What Ed told me was that C8 Stingray would outperform the C7 Z06 in acceleration up until the horsepower difference overcame the advantage in traction that C8 has....somewhere over 100 mph. I am intentionally inserting the word “Stingray” because it is clearly what Ed is talking about, since he famously “does not discuss future product” such as the C8 Z06.

Ed also told me, because I asked, that the C8 Stingray would not outperform the C7 Z06 on the track, but would deliver surprising results nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ah yes, I remember that now. Thanks for the clarification. False info. Is hard to put down once it’s out there.

Yep false info is very hard to get rid of once it's out there.

This is what I remember after Martin got it cleared up that the corvetteblogger put out the wrong information

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I spoke to Ed a few minutes before the event started and asked him the question. He said that the Corvette blogger had gotten a little ambitious with his recollection of what Ed had said and that they sent him a correction, which he posted. What he actually said was that C8 Z51 outperforms C7 Z06 in a number of measures. In my conversation with him he confirmed that 0-60 is one such measure but pretty much deflected discussion on quarter mile and track times. That information is apparently still being worked.

And that is still where some of my slight disappointment comes in, that's still not the right word but I guess I'll go with it. It's better than the Z06 to 60 but not better than the Z51 in skidpad, figure eight or braking but faster on the track lol so I guess it all works out

[bobby35ny]

Are these test C8's pre production cars? I ask because maybe they need more calibration work done? The braking comments could be because its brake by wire, might be a learning curve or needs a software update.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Are these test C8's pre production cars? I ask because maybe they need more calibration work done? The braking comments could be because its brake by wire, might be a learning curve or needs a software update.

Yes they are preproduction cars.

R&T they mentioned it had a ton of preproduction bugs

[FNxR3DNECK]

I fully expected the C8 Z51 would land between the C7 GS & Z06 as far as race track performance is concerned. Based on that 1 second faster than C7 Z51 I have a feeling I may be disappointed and it will fall closer to even with the C7 GS. BUT as it seems the biggest complaints with the C8 Z51 on track is the brakes there is hope that this could be down to the tuning on the new "brake by wire" system and they may still be able to improve it a bit for the final production version (since these test cars are VERY early builds). That said I don't expect the C8 Z51 to match the braking power of a Z07 package equipped C7 GS/Z06, that's just not reasonable, but it does sound like the brakes are hurting the overall track potential of the C8 so far, which will of course be improved on the higher models.

[NW-99SS]

It's great to get pre-production reviews like this to help GM with some calibrations before final production.

I like that the reviews are coming back after the initial high with some quality critiques that GM can take and learn from.

Nothing worse than everyone claiming it's the best thing ever, then the owner group has a different experience that is underwhelming. Like over-hyping a movie, only to be disappointed when you see it. There is much more to be said for running your PR to say it's a good car with some flaws and room for improvement, then have your owner group on the more satisfied end of the scale.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Nothing worse than everyone claiming it's the best thing ever, then the owner group has a different experience that is underwhelming. Like over-hyping a movie, only to be disappointed when you see it. There is much more to be said for running your PR to say it's a good car with some flaws and room for improvement, then have your owner group on the more satisfied end of the scale.

GM has been moving fast enough that all the media hype has stayed fresh. And regardless of some disappointments it's still a hell of a car.

By the time the GT500 reviews are out no one is going to remember what all the hype was about, so it'll probably actually get a boost from that.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

I think the comments made by the GM guy Ed were to be taken with a grain of salt in the first place. Obviously it'd be better than the c7 z in some areas but definitely not all.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes they are preproduction cars.

R&T they mentioned it had a ton of preproduction bugs

They literally said "few bugs" and "the bugs we saw were typical of prototypes" . Where did you get the ton part?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

SO the question is, which would you rather have at a similar price point?

2019 Corvette Z06:
0-60 in 3.0
0-100 in 6.8
1/4 mile in 11.1 @ 127
Superior braking, grip, and most likely also track times to the C8 Z51

2020 Corvette Z51:
0-60 2.8 sec
0-100 in 7.1 sec
1/4 mile in 11.1 @ 123 mph
Braking so-so (149 feet 70-0)
grip so-so: 1.03g
Track handling: better than a C7 Z51 by 0.9 seconds on a ~two mile course.
Most of all: ME design
Nicer interior

Aside from the 0-30 (and thus 0-60 time), the C7 Z06 is faster and higher performing in every metric (1/4 mile trap speed, braking, grip, etc.).

2019 Z06