Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Technical Camaro Topics > Road Course/Track and Autocross


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-22-2017, 12:40 PM   #15
glamcem

 
glamcem's Avatar
 
Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
"I'm aware that many say to run them at 30 psi hot but that's not my experience nor is it recommended by the Pirelli reps here in Canada. I had 2 rear tires fail and Pirelli would not warranty as they said I was running the pressures too low, particularly cold. For a 911 they said not to run them below 32 psi cold! I begin at 32 front and 34 rear cold then come into the hot pits after 4 or 5 laps and bleed down to hot pressures of 34 front and 36 rear and run at that pressure for the day. "

As reported on Rennsport. Pirelli recommends "about 2.2bar which is 32psi "to be adjusted based on a car". They had a chart posted for this but I can't find it anymore. Might have been their Euro site. Anyway, even for slicks, they recommend 2.5bar for "touring cars", which means: "heavy".
F toe out is not a "band aid solution" by any means Good luck with the Nittos - looking fwd to your review!
I read the same exact thing and many other reviews as well
I read mixed reviews about the cold/hot pressures on them. On Camaro forums someone mentioned "
On the Trofeos, w/negative camber maxed out, I find the optimal hot tire pressure to be 32 psi. 33 is tolerable, and once I get past that the tires start to feel a touch greasy at the limit. This has been verified at track events by a tire professional, measuring temps across the tread and correlating that to tire pressures."
My close friend (X25) who had a Gen 5 1LE with Z28 conversion also mentioned that when he was running these tires.
In order to see 32-33 psi hot, I need to be able to do 25-26 psi COLD which I am trying to avoid at the moment. It is impossible to see 32-33 hot PSI with my car as I pass those pressures without even finishing the first lap

Car certainly begs for more camber, and the camber is a must IMO since we don't have double wishbones to maintain the negative camber and Pirelli advises -3.0 (just like the Hoosiers) it may be because of the sidewall design. Although, toe out upfront will affect the steering wheel for a sharper turn in, it won't have the similar effects with the camber. Aggressive toe out will also reduce the tirelife more than the camber since I am driving to events not towing at the moment

It sounds like Trofeo R would be a better match for a stiffer suspension (like Multimatics on the Z28) and/or wider wheels to stretch them.
Taken directly from Pirelli's website:

Quote:
P Zero™ Trofeo R does not usually require higher pressures for racetrack use. It is designed for use at a pressure of approximately 2,2 bar, to be adjusted according to the type of car.

The figures indicated refer to the “operating pressure”: the pressure of the tyre when it is fully warmed up to working temperature. For accurate calibration, it is essential to consider that the difference in temperature between a “cold” tyre and a “hot” one is quite significant, normally 0.5 bar.
Running 32psi hot with 7 psi gap (25 psi cold) is not possible in my case

Enough of high jacking I guess lol, we can talk about it in more detail in PMs
glamcem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 12:48 PM   #16
TrackClub


 
TrackClub's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 5,091
Agree with your last 2 statements
But staying on the subject of "alignment", nobody is calling for "an aggressive toe out". Just a slight out vs zero that's all. Ya know you'll wear out those tires much faster on a track vs driving to/from no matter the rest
TrackClub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 12:50 PM   #17
glamcem

 
glamcem's Avatar
 
Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
Agree with your last 2 statements
But staying on the subject of "alignment", nobody is calling for "an aggressive toe out". Just a slight out vs zero that's all. Ya know you'll wear out those tires much faster on a track vs driving to/from no matter the rest
true but using small amount of toe will have smaller effects also, anyhow I just added the Pirelli's comments on Trofeo Rs
glamcem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 12:59 PM   #18
TrackClub


 
TrackClub's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 5,091
Good stuff! But toe (in/out) is supposed to be SMALL, very SMALL "More" doesn't mean "better" - to the contrary - it can affect the handling to a very unpredictable level. So "little" is GOOD Ok I am running away now lol
TrackClub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 01:16 PM   #19
TrackClub


 
TrackClub's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 5,091
"On the track, I like to bleed to 38 all round hot. The Trofeo R sidewall feels much softer than other cup tires, hence the cushier ride, but this also leads to faster heating on the track when they are under-inflated. At 34 hot, they can get greasy with 12 minutes of very hard driving. 38 keeps them a bit cooler for a longer period of time.

And ditto Moggy about the thicker inner and outer shoulders. This design makes them last much longer for both DD and on the track.
2014 R8 5.2 Coupe S-Tronic VF750 supercharged Ceramic brakes, Ibis White , Carbon fiber, O.Z. Ultraleggera racing wheels
2014 Tesla Model S P85D(L+), Silver, Black leather, 21" wheels, Autopilot, Ludicrous+ is an understatement with 0-60 @ 2.28s
2012 Tesla Model S Signature Performance #905, Pearl White, 19" wheels (gone)
2011 R8 5.2 FSI, R-Tronic, Coupe, Ibis White, Carbon fiber sideblade, APR 93 tune (gone)
Hidden Content " border="0" />"

From an R8 forum.
Keep in mind, if you start soft sidewall tires too soft they will overheat very quickly because of flexing. It is counter intuitive, but they will perform better if you start them too high then bleed down.
But that requires pitting after 3-4 laps and can be a PITA. Obviously no such issues with NT01 as their sidewalls are hard as rock
PS Ok really running away now lol!
TrackClub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 01:25 PM   #20
glamcem

 
glamcem's Avatar
 
Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
"On the track, I like to bleed to 38 all round hot. The Trofeo R sidewall feels much softer than other cup tires, hence the cushier ride, but this also leads to faster heating on the track when they are under-inflated. At 34 hot, they can get greasy with 12 minutes of very hard driving. 38 keeps them a bit cooler for a longer period of time.

And ditto Moggy about the thicker inner and outer shoulders. This design makes them last much longer for both DD and on the track.
2014 R8 5.2 Coupe S-Tronic VF750 supercharged Ceramic brakes, Ibis White , Carbon fiber, O.Z. Ultraleggera racing wheels
2014 Tesla Model S P85D(L+), Silver, Black leather, 21" wheels, Autopilot, Ludicrous+ is an understatement with 0-60 @ 2.28s
2012 Tesla Model S Signature Performance #905, Pearl White, 19" wheels (gone)
2011 R8 5.2 FSI, R-Tronic, Coupe, Ibis White, Carbon fiber sideblade, APR 93 tune (gone)
Hidden Content " border="0" />"

From an R8 forum.
Keep in mind, if you start soft sidewall tires too soft they will overheat very quickly because of flexing. It is counter intuitive, but they will perform better if you start them too high then bleed down.
But that requires pitting after 3-4 laps and can be a PITA. Obviously no such issues with NT01 as their sidewalls are hard as rock
PS Ok really running away now lol!
That's what I did, I started at around 28 psi( even though, ideally it would be at around 25-26 psi) and I also know the fact that; if the starting pressures are too low it is easier to overheat them since it takes longer to heat the more air AFAIK this applies to all types of tires not just the tires with the softer sidewalls
glamcem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #21
TrackClub


 
TrackClub's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 5,091
The R8 guy starts them above his target 38 hot, comes in after 2-3 laps and bleeds down to 38 hot.
Seems to work for him. No first hand exerience here. But might be worth trying. One thing is for certain: a soft sidewall with insufficient pressure on a heavy car will always overheat the tire. And once it does, they'll be gone for a while. It is possible that starting them at 28 is way too low. NB I used to start NT01s at 28 on my 3100lb car. But interestingly enough, I had to start R1s higher (31) to arrive at and then stay at a sweet spot. Even though they too have very stiff sidewall.
TrackClub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 02:55 PM   #22
glamcem

 
glamcem's Avatar
 
Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
The R8 guy starts them above his target 38 hot, comes in after 2-3 laps and bleeds down to 38 hot.
Seems to work for him. No first hand exerience here. But might be worth trying. One thing is for certain: a soft sidewall with insufficient pressure on a heavy car will always overheat the tire. And once it does, they'll be gone for a while. It is possible that starting them at 28 is way too low. NB I used to start NT01s at 28 on my 3100lb car. But interestingly enough, I had to start R1s higher (31) to arrive at and then stay at a sweet spot. Even though they too have very stiff sidewall.
Then again it's still about 6-7 psi more than what the manufacturer recommends and It's very possible that R8 guy doesn't know much
glamcem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 03:53 PM   #23
TrackClub


 
TrackClub's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 5,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
Then again it's still about 6-7 psi more than what the manufacturer recommends and It's very possible that R8 guy doesn't know much
It is very unlikely that one pressure recommendation would work for all cars.
Even for their slicks, Pirelli recommends higher pressures for heavier cars.
Don't know how much the R8 knows or not. He specifically said running them higher made them last longer stints. But that's often a challenge with faceless Internet opinions. Unless they match our own of course, in which case they are "expert" opinions lol
TrackClub is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.