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Old 04-18-2021, 06:50 PM   #1
seanblurr

 
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Is there a viable, tested upgrade to the DSSV's on the market today?

I know there have been numerous threads over the years about track-focused suspension upgrades for the ZLE's DSSV's. However, they are just full of "options" and opinions without any real-world data. It also appears as if some of the mentioned options never actually came to fruition (Ohlins, and Penske no longer list a 6th gen option).


The only complete coilover systems I can find that are readily available appear to be DSC Sports DDA active suspension and Motion Control Suspension (MCS) 2,3, and 4-way dampers.


Is there anyone out there in the vast depth of the internet who actually has either of these systems on their ZLE? Anyone with data showing a comparison?


I see DSC posted one ZLE with their system on it, but there has been no follow-up info, and no details on why this owner switched. Any chance you are a member here?

If I remember correctly, someone on here has MSC 4-ways on their auto-x focused 6th gen, you still around? What top hats did you go with? What spring rates?

Looking for any real-world info.
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:46 PM   #2
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Robert Weathers has his ZLE on the DSC setup. He is sponsored by them. He is a member here, MadMotorMagazine is his screen name.

I believe it was Rotis that had the MCS on his ZLE.
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:54 AM   #3
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ive looked into the coilover issues so much with these cars afe power aka pfadt was suppose to use my car for testing but never made a kit


mcs or jrz seems to be the way if your going to remove stock mrc or dssv but most are starting at like 4k


ohlins and kw dont make shit neither does moton or any other big guys


penske has options for us but alot tons of $$$$
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16 1SS NIGHTFALL GRAY METALLIC WITH NPP / YYZ SPRINGS/ AFE POWERSWAYBARS/ AFE POWER RACE INTAKE/EXHAUST AND HEADERS HRE FLOWFORM FF11 WHEELS /GOODYEAR SUPERCAR3S / BLACK BOWTIES/OEM SMOKED TAILS/GM FRONT LIP/DIODE DYNAMICS SMOKED SIDE MARKERS/LED LICENSE PLATE LIGHTS/OEM GM STRUT BAR/BODY MATCHES SS EMBLEMS/ CMS TUNE ON 91 OCTANE / ZZP BIG BRAKE KIT / MSD WIRES / SPL TOERODS WITH LOCKOUT
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Old 04-19-2021, 12:10 PM   #4
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I've run MCS 3-way on my 2016 SS, and now I'm running MCS 2-way non-remotes on my ZL1 1LE. I like the non-remotes for simplicity, but I kinda liked the damping better with the 3-way, compression wasn't quite so digressive with those. I may get these revalved at some point.

I went from the DSSV to the MCS for the primary purpose of fitting more wheel and tire up front. I'm 18x12 in front now, and there is plenty of room. I'm considering 18x13, once some wider (fast) tires come out. Not for the faint of heart.

The damping on the MCS, as I have them set right now, is very similar to the DSSV. The DSSV have tons of low speed compression, and with 2wnr they feel very similar with the compression turned up.

I primarily autox, so it's tough to create any sort of direct comparison. So far I have been taking top PAX at local events by a bit more than I generally did last year on DSSVs against the same competition. I think any difference in time is primarily attributable to gaining an extra inch of front wheel/tire.

I'll be at the Ridge again later this year, but it's been repaved so my lap times would not be comparable.
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Old 04-19-2021, 02:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotis View Post
I've run MCS 3-way on my 2016 SS, and now I'm running MCS 2-way non-remotes on my ZL1 1LE. I like the non-remotes for simplicity, but I kinda liked the damping better with the 3-way, compression wasn't quite so digressive with those. I may get these revalved at some point.

I went from the DSSV to the MCS for the primary purpose of fitting more wheel and tire up front. I'm 18x12 in front now, and there is plenty of room. I'm considering 18x13, once some wider (fast) tires come out. Not for the faint of heart.

The damping on the MCS, as I have them set right now, is very similar to the DSSV. The DSSV have tons of low speed compression, and with 2wnr they feel very similar with the compression turned up.

I think any difference in time is primarily attributable to gaining an extra inch of front wheel/tire.

I'll be at the Ridge again later this year, but it's been repaved so my lap times would not be comparable.
So the MSC dampers allow 1" more additional width which means you could you fit a 13" wide 19" diameter wheel up front?

Looks like the only sticky tires wide enough would be 345/30/19 A7 or R7 Hoosiers, still I'm interested... Might go to slicks next year anyways


Camaro Gen 6
1WNR $2,900
2WNR $3,700
2 Way $4,700
3 Way $6,250
4 Way $9,150

I have no idea how to judge whether or not the pricier 3 and 4 way options are worth it, as I don't know very much about dampers... thoughts and opinions?
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Old 04-19-2021, 06:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotis View Post
I've run MCS 3-way on my 2016 SS, and now I'm running MCS 2-way non-remotes on my ZL1 1LE. I like the non-remotes for simplicity, but I kinda liked the damping better with the 3-way, compression wasn't quite so digressive with those. I may get these revalved at some point.

I went from the DSSV to the MCS for the primary purpose of fitting more wheel and tire up front. I'm 18x12 in front now, and there is plenty of room. I'm considering 18x13, once some wider (fast) tires come out. Not for the faint of heart.

The damping on the MCS, as I have them set right now, is very similar to the DSSV. The DSSV have tons of low speed compression, and with 2wnr they feel very similar with the compression turned up.

I primarily autox, so it's tough to create any sort of direct comparison. So far I have been taking top PAX at local events by a bit more than I generally did last year on DSSVs against the same competition. I think any difference in time is primarily attributable to gaining an extra inch of front wheel/tire.

I'll be at the Ridge again later this year, but it's been repaved so my lap times would not be comparable.

What tophats and spring rates are you using? Obviously Auto-x vs. road course will be different, but curious where you started. Did you do the testing/set up on the dampers? How long did it take to finally get them dialed?


I could see a front tire helping more on auto-x than a road course. Unless I could increase the rear width proportionally, I'm not sure id increase the front width. No data to back this, just my opinion after testing various tire sizes. Maybe a 325/345 combo, but I don't see much available.
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblurr View Post
I could see a front tire helping more on auto-x than a road course. Unless I could increase the rear width proportionally, I'm not sure id increase the front width. No data to back this, just my opinion after testing various tire sizes. Maybe a 325/345 combo, but I don't see much available.
Was thinking of just changing sway bars rates/settings to compensate.

I’d think going from a 305 to a 345 would be a noticeable difference on the track.
Not sure if it would be worth all the money for the dampers though...
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Old 04-20-2021, 01:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblurr View Post
What tophats and spring rates are you using? Obviously Auto-x vs. road course will be different, but curious where you started. Did you do the testing/set up on the dampers? How long did it take to finally get them dialed?


I could see a front tire helping more on auto-x than a road course. Unless I could increase the rear width proportionally, I'm not sure id increase the front width. No data to back this, just my opinion after testing various tire sizes. Maybe a 325/345 combo, but I don't see much available.
I'm running Moreno camber plates. I set the dampers to reach my critical damping % targets based on the raw data files that MCS provided. This almost always gets me within 1 click of what I want in terms of feel.

I've run between 550 and 700lb front springs, and 1100-1300 rear springs across my two MCS setups. Right now I'm at 550/1200, which is pretty soft up front compared to some serious business autox setups.

More tire is always better, especially with a car this heavy. Add front tire, add front spring/bar to achieve desired balance. You get the faster response of more roll stiffness, and still have grip from the extra tire, which is a win/win in the autox world.
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:07 PM   #9
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seanblurr - What is the reason(s) behind wanting something different? Adjustability in ride height (beyond +/-10mm up front), rebound / compression, etc.?
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblurr View Post
What tophats and spring rates are you using? Obviously Auto-x vs. road course will be different, but curious where you started. Did you do the testing/set up on the dampers? How long did it take to finally get them dialed?


I could see a front tire helping more on auto-x than a road course. Unless I could increase the rear width proportionally, I'm not sure id increase the front width. No data to back this, just my opinion after testing various tire sizes. Maybe a 325/345 combo, but I don't see much available.
There is a shop in So Cal with a lot of experience with MCS, WRTeknica https://wrteknica.com/

They do a lot of very advanced track car builds for GT3, GT3RS, GT350, and I've seen 6th Gen Camaro customers as well but not clear about specs for those. They often have a big presence now at So Cal HPDE events, with a lot of customers all gathering under tents, and they provide pit service for them. Must be nice.

I think the owner is a former racer and has a GT3RS and a GT2RS and runs 1:50 flat all day at Buttonwillow, and gets into the 1:40s in the GT2. And their customers are very fast. I add this to point out that their cars seem to be very dialed in, and I bet the MCS suspensions are a big part of that. Given the results I've seen firsthand running in packs with their cars, if I was getting MCS I would call them first.

They do look like a shop on the higher end of the spectrum for pricing.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFV1LE View Post
There is a shop in So Cal with a lot of experience with MCS, WRTeknica https://wrteknica.com/

They do a lot of very advanced track car builds for GT3, GT3RS, GT350, and I've seen 6th Gen Camaro customers as well but not clear about specs for those. They often have a big presence now at So Cal HPDE events, with a lot of customers all gathering under tents, and they provide pit service for them. Must be nice.

I think the owner is a former racer and has a GT3RS and a GT2RS and runs 1:50 flat all day at Buttonwillow, and gets into the 1:40s in the GT2. And their customers are very fast. I add this to point out that their cars seem to be very dialed in, and I bet the MCS suspensions are a big part of that. Given the results I've seen firsthand running in packs with their cars, if I was getting MCS I would call them first.

They do look like a shop on the higher end of the spectrum for pricing.

yea will is a good guy and does alot of high end builds and cars he just did some mcs 2 ways and swaybars and full spl parts kit for my buddys camaro ss and was about $7000-8000 or so


i got a price on some 1 way mcs and camber plates from vorshlag for around $4000 or so a few months ago so they nice but definately not cheap
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotis View Post
I've run MCS 3-way on my 2016 SS, and now I'm running MCS 2-way non-remotes on my ZL1 1LE. I like the non-remotes for simplicity, but I kinda liked the damping better with the 3-way, compression wasn't quite so digressive with those. I may get these revalved at some point.

I went from the DSSV to the MCS for the primary purpose of fitting more wheel and tire up front. I'm 18x12 in front now, and there is plenty of room. I'm considering 18x13, once some wider (fast) tires come out. Not for the faint of heart.

The damping on the MCS, as I have them set right now, is very similar to the DSSV. The DSSV have tons of low speed compression, and with 2wnr they feel very similar with the compression turned up.

I primarily autox, so it's tough to create any sort of direct comparison. So far I have been taking top PAX at local events by a bit more than I generally did last year on DSSVs against the same competition. I think any difference in time is primarily attributable to gaining an extra inch of front wheel/tire.

I'll be at the Ridge again later this year, but it's been repaved so my lap times would not be comparable.
What days are you coming to The Ridge? The new pavement is amazing and 1-2 sec faster.

Ken
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:24 PM   #13
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I’d be very interested to hear more higher level track experiences with the DSC system. There doesn’t seem to be very many real world track experiences with it, from what I could find. If I could map and adjust my own settings, it would have a ton of value for setup.

Edit - Re MCS differences, I have driven multiple cars with the 2 and 3 way and both work really well. The 2 way does seem to have a large window between clicks and it is nice having something finer...That said, we were able to get where we needed to go with the 2 way, but relied more on spring changes rather than slowing down low speed.

Ken

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Old 04-22-2021, 12:37 PM   #14
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What days are you coming to The Ridge? The new pavement is amazing and 1-2 sec faster.

Ken
Right now I have it penciled into my schedule for the SCCA TT in July. I did a 1:49 pre-repave, on old Rival-S 1.0's with wrecked shoulders from over-driving the out lap on low pressures.

With good 200tw tires on the new surface it seems like a 1:46 is well within the realm of possibility.
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