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Old 04-18-2021, 04:18 PM   #29
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Performance of the LT1 is the same on the street as the SS if you add the SS tires. Used SS wheels and tires are cheap to add add then you have winter and summer setups. I'm adding 1LE replica wheels and summer SS 1LE size tires for my summer setup.

Here are all of the LT1 SS differences
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Old 04-18-2021, 04:46 PM   #30
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The LT1 is a great car if you keep the options low or zilch. Once you start adding stuff you might as well just get an SS.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:30 PM   #31
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You don’t have enough data to support your claim. Camaro sales are in the toilet.

If what you are thinking is the 25% is PLUS sales, I doubt it very much.

You need to see how many people that were looking at a V6 and chose a V8 instead. Not plus sale, but at least a better mix for GM.

Which claim? That there aren't many 1SS cars on dealer lots anymore, or that the 1SS isn't as discounted due to the LT1 existing?


I was basing that off of using the various car search engines over the passed 2 years. The 1SS availability dropped significantly, from what I've seen. This was even before Covid. I don't care enough to really study at, but at a glance I very rarely saw 1SS cars being listed anymore. It was all LT1s and 2SSes.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:43 PM   #32
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Gm just put out "data" that Camaro retail sales are up 20% over last year's first quarter.

The LT1 was long overdue and is likely a good shot in the arm that Camaro needed to stay afloat and responsible for the 20% increase claimed by GM.

Too bad it wasn't around in years earlier. If the price is right, customers will choose the V8.

A V6 or I4 for some is not an option at any price. If Camaro sales were in the toilet, they would likely have been much worse without the LT1 model.
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:35 PM   #33
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The LT1 was needed to stay competitive with Mustang/Challenger. I get the tradition of the V8 muscle car, and at one time there was a huge performance difference between V8s compared to smaller engines. Not so much now.

The LT1 still $7K more than the V6 (base model + auto + RS Pkg for both) before tax & freight. Add to that 40% more fuel cost than the V6: 20% less mpg + 20% more for premium every time you fill up. That's quite a price disparity and op cost for 1 second less 0-60.

I'm a traditional muscle car guy...as few options as possible for the desired performance. Once a muscle car gets loaded up with nice to have but non-essential options, a 4 door performance sedan is a better value.

I bought my RS for how it looks and how it sounds (much better now with the Borla Atak axle-back). I'm not drag-racing from every stoplight (just from some :-), have no interest in tracking, (even if I had an SS), so all that extra HP for the V8 is essentially wasted because it's seldom needed, certainly not in urban/suburban driving where 90%+ of driving is done.
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by digitalfutur View Post
The LT1 was needed to stay competitive with Mustang/Challenger. I get the tradition of the V8 muscle car, and at one time there was a huge performance difference between V8s compared to smaller engines. Not so much now.

The LT1 still $7K more than the V6 (base model + auto + RS Pkg for both) before tax & freight. Add to that 40% more fuel cost than the V6: 20% less mpg + 20% more for premium every time you fill up. That's quite a price disparity and op cost for 1 second less 0-60.

I'm a traditional muscle car guy...as few options as possible for the desired performance. Once a muscle car gets loaded up with nice to have but non-essential options, a 4 door performance sedan is a better value.

I bought my RS for how it looks and how it sounds (much better now with the Borla Atak axle-back). I'm not drag-racing from every stoplight (just from some :-), have no interest in tracking, (even if I had an SS), so all that extra HP for the V8 is essentially wasted because it's seldom needed, certainly not in urban/suburban driving where 90%+ of driving is done.

Just be careful which of those Burlington Ontario stoplights and on ramps you use for WOT. I may be beside you and I don't care at all about fuel economy. I am an " old school musclecar guy" too. My LT1 would be happy to demonstrate some of it's wasted horsepower ! LOL
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfutur View Post
The LT1 was needed to stay competitive with Mustang/Challenger. I get the tradition of the V8 muscle car, and at one time there was a huge performance difference between V8s compared to smaller engines. Not so much now.

The LT1 still $7K more than the V6 (base model + auto + RS Pkg for both) before tax & freight. Add to that 40% more fuel cost than the V6: 20% less mpg + 20% more for premium every time you fill up. That's quite a price disparity and op cost for 1 second less 0-60.

I'm a traditional muscle car guy...as few options as possible for the desired performance. Once a muscle car gets loaded up with nice to have but non-essential options, a 4 door performance sedan is a better value.

I bought my RS for how it looks and how it sounds (much better now with the Borla Atak axle-back). I'm not drag-racing from every stoplight (just from some :-), have no interest in tracking, (even if I had an SS), so all that extra HP for the V8 is essentially wasted because it's seldom needed, certainly not in urban/suburban driving where 90%+ of driving is done.
I am suburban and enjoy the V8 power almost every time I take out the LT1. That being said, street racing is for idiots. Take it to the track. If I was urban I would not bother with a car in the city.

I would say my ZL1 was silly on the street. Besides being bored by the automatic you coould only enjoy that car at the track. The LT1 and SS both were fast but more controllably so. The performance is approachable on the street.

I like the RS and the V6 Camaro is a great performance car. Nothing in the RS price rage can compete. Respect.
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfutur View Post
The LT1 was needed to stay competitive with Mustang/Challenger. I get the tradition of the V8 muscle car, and at one time there was a huge performance difference between V8s compared to smaller engines. Not so much now.

The LT1 still $7K more than the V6 (base model + auto + RS Pkg for both) before tax & freight. Add to that 40% more fuel cost than the V6: 20% less mpg + 20% more for premium every time you fill up. That's quite a price disparity and op cost for 1 second less 0-60.

I'm a traditional muscle car guy...as few options as possible for the desired performance. Once a muscle car gets loaded up with nice to have but non-essential options, a 4 door performance sedan is a better value.

I bought my RS for how it looks and how it sounds (much better now with the Borla Atak axle-back). I'm not drag-racing from every stoplight (just from some :-), have no interest in tracking, (even if I had an SS), so all that extra HP for the V8 is essentially wasted because it's seldom needed, certainly not in urban/suburban driving where 90%+ of driving is done.
The V6 purchases and reasons for it you mention above would have been made whether or not there was a LT1 available. The V6 should be less expensive and more economical. But it does not provide a V8 that others would prefer. Its great to have options and choices. Nothing at all wrong with a V6 or non-SS. But an LT1 being a lower cost V8 would be more affordable to those who would not buy a V6 simply because it cost less.
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Old 04-19-2021, 04:44 AM   #37
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I am suburban and enjoy the V8 power almost every time I take out the LT1. That being said, street racing is for idiots. Take it to the track. If I was urban I would not bother with a car in the city.

I would say my ZL1 was silly on the street. Besides being bored by the automatic you coould only enjoy that car at the track. The LT1 and SS both were fast but more controllably so. The performance is approachable on the street.

I like the RS and the V6 Camaro is a great performance car. Nothing in the RS price rage can compete. Respect.
You are right Mark . I do not race on the street, and was just making a joke as I happen to live in the same city as the RS V6 poster. My passion has always been Big Block Chevys with dog dish hubcaps, bench seats and 4 speeds, sleepers, strippers, Biscaynes over Impalas, substance over style . While not exactly a "sleeper" my M6 LT1 is the lightest and simplest V8 Camaro that I could buy. The only improvements that I made were a set of SS Rims( to get the 9.5 " width in the rear), Nitto 2R Drag radials, and
as per your suggestion, a shift light ( works great, thank you ) . There is room in this world for all kinds of automotive enthusiasts, and I respect that. The idea of adding cosmetic improvements instead of performance improvements is just not for me. The LT1 is one of the great musclecar bargains out there, and I could never justify giving up my V8 over gas mileage or price considerations.
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Old 04-19-2021, 06:18 AM   #38
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According to the Chevy website:

LT1 coupe: 3,619 lbs
1SS Coupe: 3,685 lbs
2SS coupe: 3,696 lbs

A mere 77 lb difference for the 2SS and only 66 lb difference to the 1SS, but the SS's have 275s on the rear for a better hook... I'll take 70 lbs and an extra inch of rubber on the rear...
My guess is that the wheels/tires account for a significant percentage of the overall weight difference. Those OEM runflats are anything but light.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:38 AM   #39
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Gm just put out "data" that Camaro retail sales are up 20% over last year's first quarter.

The LT1 was long overdue and is likely a good shot in the arm that Camaro needed to stay afloat and responsible for the 20% increase claimed by GM.

Too bad it wasn't around in years earlier. If the price is right, customers will choose the V8.

A V6 or I4 for some is not an option at any price. If Camaro sales were in the toilet, they would likely have been much worse without the LT1 model.
no the put out a statement that sales went up and the data they provided showed no increase.
besides that chevrolet dealers havn't even had product. dealers around here have had like 2 camaros at a time.
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Old 04-19-2021, 11:55 AM   #40
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I think its a great package.
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:51 PM   #41
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no the put out a statement that sales went up and the data they provided showed no increase.
besides that chevrolet dealers havn't even had product. dealers around here have had like 2 camaros at a time.
No Camaro sales increase?....Their data collection must be all over the place. They claim a 20% increase in retail sales...

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590395

Q1 2021 retail sales and share highlights (vs. Q1 2020)

Cadillac deliveries were up 43 percent and market share up 1.1 percentage points, according to J.D. Power PIN.
Cadillac delivered its best first-quarter ATPs ever at $58,550.
The all-new Escalade saw a 127 percent year-over-year increase in retail deliveries, and its segment share is 8 percentage points higher than the closest competitor (J.D. Power).
Retail sales of Cadillac’s crossovers and all-new luxury sedans were also exceptionally strong with the XT4 up 30 percent, the XT5 up 15 percent, the XT6 up 22 percent and the CT5 up 60 percent.

Buick deliveries were up 43 percent.
The new Encore GX continues to be Buick’s best-selling nameplate.
In January, Buick launched a redesigned 2021 Envision, expanding the brand’s share of the fast-growing compact SUV segment with a 51 percent sales increase. The Envision had its best first-quarter sales ever.
The Enclave increased deliveries by 38 percent. A refreshed 2022 model is slated to go on sale later this year.

GMC deliveries were up 23 percent.
The GMC Sierra delivered its best first-quarter retail sales ever, up 18 percent.
Four other GMC models had double-digit increases, with the Acadia up 33 percent, the Canyon up 66 percent, the Yukon up 79 percent and the Yukon XL up 56 percent.
This Saturday, GMC will reveal the GMC HUMMER EV SUV, the next chapter in its all-electric future. Reservations will open for customers on the same day.

Chevrolet deliveries were up 13 percent.
Tahoe and Suburban sales were up 104 percent and 63 percent, respectively.
The Trailblazer captured more than 10 percent share of the small SUV segment through the first quarter (J.D. Power PIN)
Two models, the Bolt EV and the Traverse, had their best first-quarter retail sales ever. Bolt EV retail sales were up 60 percent and Traverse was up 39 percent.
Five other Chevrolets had double-digit sales increases: the Camaro was up 20 percent, the Malibu was up 46 percent, the Colorado was up 35 percent, the Silverado HD was up 11 percent and the Corvette was up 73 percent.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:37 PM   #42
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you posted a pdf showing a decrease in sales.

I went to GM Authority and the posted first quarter sales in the U.S. of 7,089, and 7,185 last year, a decrease of %1.34

meanwhile Challenger last year was 12k, this year 15.
mustang 18k and 17k
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