[TrackClub]

C8 Z51 (on inferior tires) beats a ZL1 at the Ring, so i suspect it is a faster car than an SS 1LE.
I believe a C8 Z51 beat a C7 GS during a head to head that one mag published early on. Which makes sense re expected progression wise.

C8 doesn't seem to understeer IF properly set up alignment wise per GM spec incl TONS of camber. Randy Pobst actually complained about mid corner over steer and made a suggestion GM tightents up a diff a bit of i recall it correctly.

PS Note all mid engine cars have much narrower F rubber. No real difference between C8 vs other platforms here.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

C8 Z51 (on inferior tires) beats a ZL1 at the Ring, so i suspect it is a faster car than an SS 1LE.
I believe a C8 Z51 beat a C7 GS during a head to head that one mag published early on. Which makes sense re expected progression wise.

C8 doesn't seem to understeer IF properly set up alignment wise per GM spec incl TONS of camber. Randy Pobst actually complained about mid corner over steer and made a suggestion GM tightents up a diff a bit of i recall it correctly.

PS Note all mid engine cars have much narrower F rubber. No real difference between C8 vs other platforms here.

I know there was a mag that ran the c7 z51 vs the c8 z51 head to head and the c8 won, but I never saw a c7 gs vs c8 article. Going off of the c8's ring time vs the gs segmented ring time, the gs is faster.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I doubt it. At the track, C8 Z51 is only slightly faster than the C7 Z51 (which is much slower than a C7 GS). The problem is the front tire size, they're just small and cause tons of understeer so in other words they're limited with front end grip (no wonder almost everyone tested them complained about the understeer). C8 GS will be a whole another story of course.. Btw, they recently dynoed the C8 Z51 on dynojet and it did 440whp and 408 wtq (vs 420whp and 413wtq SS 1LE dynojet numbers). I think the DCT causes some drive train loss

I'm sure those dyno numbers are mostly on but remember that the corvette used on that dyno run had 20 miles on it and not yet completed the necessary 500 mile break in, so it was still limiting torque to a fairly significant percentage from what I've read.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I know there was a mag that ran the c7 z51 vs the c8 z51 head to head and the c8 won, but I never saw a c7 gs vs c8 article. Going off of the c8's ring time vs the gs segmented ring time, the gs is faster.

Motor Trend ran them and Randy drove them. I cant find it right now, as there were a couple of various editions of the same article, but the C8 was faster. Cant recall laptimes, or tires, etc.

[Bosse'sBoss]

I have that MT edition mag. The GS wasn't tested only both C7 & C8 Z51s. The C8 Z51 was faster. Apparently no one has tested the C8 Z51 VS the C7 GS yet.

[TrackClub]

Strange, as the online version of one of the MT tests clearly mentions a C7 GS. No idea, if these were 2 different tests, or they confused the cars? From the online pix it looked like a base GS to me (not a Z07 car). No idea what actually appeared in print version vs online.
So, i might be wrong here. Whatever the delta is, we will likely learn based on official tests. Cheers!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Strange, as the online version of one of the MT tests clearly mentions a C7 GS. No idea, if these were 2 different tests, or they confused the cars? From the online pix it looked like a base GS to me (not a Z07 car). No idea what actually appeared in print version vs online.
So, i might be wrong here. Whatever the delta is, we will likely learn based on official tests. Cheers!

From the videos and article I read it was a c7 z51 vs the c8 z51, and I know Randy was the driver. Going just off of how the c7 GS compares to the c7 z51, I assume the GS will still be faster than the c8 atleast on tracks that don't favor horsepower.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

From the videos and article I read it was a c7 z51 vs the c8 z51, and I know Randy was the driver. Going just off of how the c7 GS compares to the c7 z51, I assume the GS will still be faster than the c8 atleast on tracks that don't favor horsepower.

Yes they did TWO tests. The second one being a base C7 GS and Randy drove it as well. Anyway, a moot point as i cant find the laptimes (but i recall seeing them).

[Bosse'sBoss]

I just saw the MT video of Randy Pobst and they mentioned that the C8 Z51 track alignment of Camber 3 is a very radical alignment camber for a street car.
I agreed that GM went to that extreme to reduce the heavy understeer of the C8. The Camaro's Alpha platform is a more well balanced chassis that doesn't need to go to those extremes on alignment tunning. Is ready to play on the track without wearing your tires on DD.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I'm sure those dyno numbers are mostly on but remember that the corvette used on that dyno run had 20 miles on it and not yet completed the necessary 500 mile break in, so it was still limiting torque to a fairly significant percentage from what I've read.

That should be it I just remember the dyno figures don't recall the details.
It looks like Hennessey dynoed much higher numbers. https://www.motor1.com/news/404919/2...yno-hennessey/

Well that's even more interesting to me..because one could easily say it should be much quicker than a C7 GS with much more power, DCT and mid engine layout, it doesn't seem like the case here. It's only slightly faster than a C7 Z51 and it's probably because it's limited with front grip. 245s up front should be the limiting factor just like the C7 Z51. Crazy understeer with the test vehicle should be an indicator of that

FYI, my friend who had a C7 Z51 started running 285/325 NT01 (OEM was 245/285 I believe) with T1 performance suspension (I think T1 was the name ) . Anyhow the body roll was awful and it still had understeer. On the first day, after switching to 315s up front and sway bars and coilovers, his lap times dropped 6 seconds (1:58 to 1:52 I think).

Of course this is not to say, it would be the same for the C8 since it already comes with more advanced MRC system and more power ..etc but at the track, front grip (size of the wheel and compensating spring/sway rate) makes the most difference. At this point C8 Z51 is only about a couple seconds faster than a notorious stock C7 Z51 with its stock tires. I

If I had to guess I'd say the from fastest to slowest C8 GS (when it comes out)> C7 GS > Camaro SS 1LE >C8 Z51 > C7 Z51 would be the result in a tight, short track like magazines use,. In a faster track I think C8 Z51 would be faster than an SS 1LE. I might be wrong of course let's wait and see

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I just saw the MT video of Randy Pobst and they mentioned that the C8 Z51 track alignment of Camber 3 is a very radical alignment camber for a street car.
I agreed that GM went to that extreme to reduce the heavy understeer of the C8. The Camaro's Alpha Alpha platform is a more well balanced chassis that doesn't need to go to the extremes on alignment tunning. Is ready to play on the track without wearing your tires on DD.

I'm sure the moment they add a wider wheels/tires with a GrandSport version it will change dramatically as it did in the C7 example (see above). I wouldn't be surprised, if with better suspension and tire choice C8 GS surpassed the C7 Z06's track performance. Performance margins are very tight, say on a track like Laguna Seca, ~1 sec plus or minus IMO

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I just saw the MT video of Randy Pobst and they mentioned that the C8 Z51 track alignment of Camber 3 is a very radical alignment camber for a street car.
I agreed that GM went to that extreme to reduce the heavy understeer of the C8. The Camaro's Alpha Alpha platform is a more well balanced chassis that doesn't need to go to the extremes on alignment tunning. Is ready to play on the track without wearing your tires on DD.

I think that you have a misunderstanding about track alignment. The Chevy spec in the track preparation manual for a ZL1/1LE on the front is -2.7º camber, pretty close to what you said the C8 spec is. For the SS/1LE the track spec is -2.0º, but many do -2.5º or more if they can get it, and I have talked to guys using -3.0º or more on an Alpha. This is simply a case of preparing the car for a certain use, which applies to both cars.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I'm sure the moment they add a wider wheels/tires with a GrandSport version it will change dramatically as it did in the C7 example (see above). I wouldn't be surprised, if with better suspension and tire choice C8 GS surpassed the C7 Z06's track performance. Performance margins are very tight, say on a track like Laguna Seca, ~1 sec plus or minus IMO

Cem, i dont think it is the tire sizes at all. The fastest production car at the Ring has 255 fronts and the second fastest has 245 fronts. It is the car balance, which Randy Pobst suggested has to do with elsd. Given he's won Daytona 24 twice and is an accomplished pro otherwise, I'd take his musings over any amateur . Besides, with proper track alignment the C8 surprised him with too much oversteer not understeer. Noteworthy is also a fact that a C8 was only 1+ seconds slower vs GT500 on same tires at VIR. And while the Stang achieved it due to higher straght speeds, the C8 beat it in cornering.
To put it into perspective, the C8 would place 2nd on our fastest lap list, on measly 4S rubber against ZLE...
To your point, the C8 GS or Z06 may have slightly more rubber, but i dont think it will be much beyond 255 size. Because it is mid engine and any comparisons with C7 tire size wise are apples and oranges. Imo.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I just saw the MT video of Randy Pobst and they mentioned that the C8 Z51 track alignment of Camber 3 is a very radical alignment camber for a street car.
I agreed that GM went to that extreme to reduce the heavy understeer of the C8. The Camaro's Alpha Alpha platform is a more well balanced chassis that doesn't need to go to the extremes on alignment tunning. Is ready to play on the track without wearing your tires on DD.

Completely agree! 1le doesnt need a track alignment to gain 2-3 secs per lap, like the c8 does. I think that was your point here. Obviously i wouldnt run a 1le with street alignment on a track, as the tire wear would be brutal. But most certainly lap times would not drop off by a huge margin. Ciao!