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Old 09-14-2016, 07:13 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
Here Mustang Fanboy!!! Pretty much destroys the different driver different day crap.
Damn guys, read my posts. No where did I mention or complain of a lightning lap done with the same drivers on the same days.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:13 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy View Post
I have no problems with laps posted by the same driver on the same day.

People keep on bringing up comparisons to cars that were tested a year or more apart with God knows who driving...it just has to stop. At that point, it's as good as a guesstimate.
You want good data and the LL has giventh that to you. It has takenth away the holy automotive performance spirit of thy S550.

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Old 09-14-2016, 07:17 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
You want good data and the LL has giventh that to you. It has takenth away the holy automotive performance spirit of thy S550.

It was good data in regards to the GT350R and the 1le, yes. It's all of the other BS comparisons that I have a problem with. Does anyone know how the base GT350 would do against the 1le? We have an idea, but we don't really know how close they would be in some of these comparisons.

Do we really know that the 1le V6 would be quicker around this track than a GTPP? Nope, we have a guess...but that's it.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings either way, but the data cannot support any conclusion on such comparisons.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:22 AM   #228
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WTF are you talking about? Asking for good data is an excuse?

I am saying I don't care which one is quicker...I just want good data.

I also didn't see the camaro SS1lE tested against the GT350, only the GT350R...and it the GT350R ran quicker with an amateur driver. How is that being slapped?
Don't worry you will get your wish soon. I am sure there is a H2H coming soon with the 17 1LE and the 17 GT350TP. With the GT350 having a 70+hp advantage it better beat the SS.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:28 AM   #229
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Don't worry you will get your wish soon. I am sure there is a H2H coming soon with the 17 1LE and the 17 GT350TP. With the GT350 having a 70+hp advantage it better beat the SS.
It may be a pipe dream, but it would be nice too if they tested each vehicle twice. Once with the stock shoes, and once with the same high performance tires. This would really showcase each vehicles capabilities rather than showcasing which tires each manufacturer decided to include. This will give people a better idea of what a consumer can expect if they decide to track their vehicles, as most will upgrade the rubber the first chance they get.

This would also likely shrink the gap between many vehicles...but would provide much better data.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:32 AM   #230
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It may be a pipe dream, but it would be nice too if they tested each vehicle twice. Once with the stock shoes, and once with the same high performance tires. This would really showcase each vehicles capabilities rather than showcasing which tires each manufacturer decided to include. This will give people a better idea of what a consumer can expect if they decide to track their vehicles, as most will upgrade the rubber the first chance they get.

This would likely shrink the gap between many vehicles...but would provide much better data.
The vehicle is tested as configured to the public. If Ford decides to skimp on the tires its Fords fault. If we are going to give the GT350 better tires to even up the matchup, maybe we should give the 1LE 70hp in mods to even up the power?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:38 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy View Post
It may be a pipe dream, but it would be nice too if they tested each vehicle twice. Once with the stock shoes, and once with the same high performance tires. This would really showcase each vehicles capabilities rather than showcasing which tires each manufacturer decided to include. This will give people a better idea of what a consumer can expect if they decide to track their vehicles, as most will upgrade the rubber the first chance they get.

This would also likely shrink the gap between many vehicles...but would provide much better data.
How about pad materials? MRC tuning? Wheel or rotor material? Should all those be equalized also?

Each manufactuer makes decisions to tune a package. The GT350R and TP are both track specific models that where heavily tested. This is the combination that Ford engineers went to provide the best.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:39 AM   #232
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The vehicle is tested as configured to the public. If Ford decides to skimp on the tires its Fords fault. If we are going to give the GT350 better tires to even up the matchup, maybe we should give the 1LE 70hp in mods to even up the power?
I wasn't talking about the GT350, I was talking about the SS and the GTPP.

How can you compare a tire upgrade to a horsepower upgrade? You aren't making any sense.

Tires are consumables. Test vehicles as stock, yes....but test them with the same damn tires so we can really see what the chassis can do. Most folks that care about track times are going to upgrade their tires the first chance they get. Hell, motortrend has already shown the willingness to upgrade tires when they compared the ecoboost mustang and camaro to level the playing field. Why not do this with ALL comparisons.

Before you start spewing more hate, keep in mind this would likely be advantageous for the Camaro when comparing it against the GT350. I really don't care.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:41 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy View Post
It may be a pipe dream, but it would be nice too if they tested each vehicle twice. Once with the stock shoes, and once with the same high performance tires. This would really showcase each vehicles capabilities rather than showcasing which tires each manufacturer decided to include. This will give people a better idea of what a consumer can expect if they decide to track their vehicles, as most will upgrade the rubber the first chance they get.

This would also likely shrink the gap between many vehicles...but would provide much better data.
I agree!
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:43 AM   #234
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GT350R in the stripped down form they got one is not a daily driver. If you start looking at the 2017 gt350, then the 1LE dominates you at the track and as a daily driver. Then you start talking about a Mustang fans favorite subject, mods... are you going to mod a $70k "Shelby", probably not. The option code 1LE you stole for $42k off the lot? sure why not?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:53 AM   #235
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I wasn't talking about the GT350, I was talking about the SS and the GTPP.

How can you compare a tire upgrade to a horsepower upgrade? You aren't making any sense.

Tires are consumables. Test vehicles as stock, yes....but test them with the same damn tires so we can really see what the chassis can do. Most folks that care about track times are going to upgrade their tires the first chance they get. Hell, motortrend has already shown the willingness to upgrade tires when they compared the ecoboost mustang and camaro to level the playing field. Why not do this with ALL comparisons.

Before you start spewing more hate, keep in mind this would likely be advantageous for the Camaro when comparing it against the GT350. I really don't care.
Listen this is the reason I don't like modding is it muddies the waters. Is this mod ok, and this mod isn't, who decides. Keeping the vehicle truely stock takes away all of this arguement.

If you want to mod that is fine but understand the vehicle is modded and any arguement of it being stock is out the window. You are now driving a modded vehicle. I remember running my 392 at VMP and the 5.0 guys coming around with tunes, CAI, and DRs claiming the vehicle was stock
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Old 09-14-2016, 08:03 AM   #236
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That's awesome. I really don't care which one turns out quicker...I just want a level playing field between both vehicles. Hell, I'd prefer them to strap on the same tires in order to really determine which one is the better performer, use the same amount of fuel and make sure they are run within a reasonable time-frame of one another (don't run one in cool morning air and the other in hot afternoon).

Good data is all I ask for.
I feel like we can all agree that similar conditions are what we all want in these tests. Sadly, it's just not going to happen with something like the Lightning Lap testing. It's probably about as close as you can get to an annually performed test event though.

I also think running the same tires is a bit of skewed data. Sure, it might give a closer head-to-head comparison, but it's also changing how the cars were built to perform. GM and Ford built these cars to the specs that they felt achieved their goals, whether those goals be to be a pure track car or a happy medium between track and street use. And sure, tires are the easiest things to change to improve lap times, and it's something anyone doing any kind of regular tracking would do, but to do it during a head-to-head factory comparison just doesn't make sense to me. These tests are usually built to compare the two cars straight from the showroom floor as a benchmark for the factory performance of the vehicle.

Just my $0.02
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Old 09-14-2016, 08:20 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by x1sniper3x View Post
I feel like we can all agree that similar conditions are what we all want in these tests. Sadly, it's just not going to happen with something like the Lightning Lap testing. It's probably about as close as you can get to an annually performed test event though.

I also think running the same tires is a bit of skewed data. Sure, it might give a closer head-to-head comparison, but it's also changing how the cars were built to perform. GM and Ford built these cars to the specs that they felt achieved their goals, whether those goals be to be a pure track car or a happy medium between track and street use. And sure, tires are the easiest things to change to improve lap times, and it's something anyone doing any kind of regular tracking would do, but to do it during a head-to-head factory comparison just doesn't make sense to me. These tests are usually built to compare the two cars straight from the showroom floor as a benchmark for the factory performance of the vehicle.

Just my $0.02
And a good $.02 it is. Best well-reasoned argument for why the cars are evaluated as equipped.
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Old 09-14-2016, 08:23 AM   #238
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That's awesome. I really don't care which one turns out quicker...I just want a level playing field between both vehicles. Hell, I'd prefer them to strap on the same tires in order to really determine which one is the better performer, use the same amount of fuel and make sure they are run within a reasonable time-frame of one another (don't run one in cool morning air and the other in hot afternoon).

Good data is all I ask for.
Motor Trend I know tries to have the same fuel loads. Hence why in the SS vs M4 test afterwards they said they goofed and the M4 was on a low fuel load, while the SS was on a full tank.
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