[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by Zxmustang

I had this issue with my C6 corvette. I had an A&A vortech kit on it. The car was like stock from 0-3500rpm. After that it would rip the tires off in just about any forward gear. It was not great on the street. Not controllable power unless you went to the track. Then at the drag strip I was able to really feel how fast my car was.

If I were to do it again, I would go PD all the way. I really wanted that tip in tq on demand feeling. The centri will no do that for you. Now on the highway, thats a whole other story. Talk about pulling like a freight train.

None of these concepts are new tho man. You need to decide do you want a stop light monster, or a highway monster.

ECS (east coast supercharging) had the answer to this problem for the corvette Centri kits they sold. They would use what they called a restrictor plate on the inlet side of the centri blower. Then they would pulley it WAY down way past what you would normally pulley down a centri in this application. Being pullied way down, the blower would spin much faster building boost quicker and earlier in the RPM range. But on the top end it would get restricted by the plate. It was a great idea and worked flawlessly with their kits. The tq curve was flat like a table, and this was with their paxton centri kit. Take all this how you will. But if you can get a whipple, I would get nothing less. Forget the maggie.

I did some reading on the ECS setup. Interesting information.

Why do you suggest that the Whipple is superior to the others?

[BlueCamaro6]

I will say this. Texas Speed built a 2011 synergy green camaro (their test car at the time), 700hp with a Whipple setup and cam along with other items. (youtube Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam Dyno) My brother currently owns the car and it is sick, but extremely well mannered when driven. He drove it home a few years ago from TX to IL when purchased without a single issue. I took it to Hot Rod power tour in 2015, IL to WI (29mpg on hwy), beat the snot out of it through the road course (it was like a slip and slide with all that power), his wife even drives it sometimes, passes IL emissions, our 60yr old father just took it to a car show a few weeks back (he hasn't driven manual in years) no issues, turn key and go without worries. It is by far the most reliable supercharged vehicle I have ever driven.

I'm leaning heavily towards Whipple with my 16 SS due to seeing first hand how well it performs on his 11 camaro. Power is there when you want it and drives like nothing is there when you're just cruising. Yes, first gear is wheel spin if you punch it, second starts to hook, third you are in the seat thinking oh fudge. My thought is 500-600 is more than plenty for the street. Anything more, plan on tracking the car if you want to use the hp.

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by BlueCamaro6

I will say this. Texas Speed built a 2011 synergy green camaro (their test car at the time), 700hp with a Whipple setup and cam along with other items. (youtube Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam Dyno) My brother currently owns the car and it is sick, but extremely well mannered when driven. He drove it home a few years ago from TX to IL when purchased without a single issue. I took it to Hot Rod power tour in 2015, IL to WI (29mpg on hwy), beat the snot out of it through the road course (it was like a slip and slide with all that power), his wife even drives it sometimes, passes IL emissions, our 60yr old father just took it to a car show a few weeks back (he hasn't driven manual in years) no issues, turn key and go without worries. It is by far the most reliable supercharged vehicle I have ever driven.

I'm leaning heavily towards Whipple with my 16 SS due to seeing first hand how well it performs on his 11 camaro. Power is there when you want it and drives like nothing is there when you're just cruising. Yes, first gear is wheel spin if you punch it, second starts to hook, third you are in the seat thinking oh fudge. My thought is 500-600 is more than plenty for the street. Anything more, plan on tracking the car if you want to use the hp.

Thanks for the insight.

[AbsolutHank]

Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret

I did some reading on the ECS setup. Interesting information.

Why do you suggest that the Whipple is superior to the others?

The Whipples always seem to have the highest HP, mods to mods being even, across all the GM and Ford platforms. Hell, it's also the only SC that GM uses for the COPO Camaros too

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Just based on transmission type, M6 or A8, what supercharger would you choose?

[BlueCamaro6]

I have the A8 in my 16SS and like it. Tests have shown it to be quicker in the 1/4mile on the 16. The whipple charged 11SS I spoke about in my earlier post is M6 and wish I could keep both hands on the wheel at all times with that powerhouse. I also have a Firehawk M6 which is fun to drive, but I would go A8 on a 16SS and have fun with the paddle shifting.

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by BlueCamaro6

I have the A8 in my 16SS and like it. Tests have shown it to be quicker in the 1/4mile on the 16. The whipple charged 11SS I spoke about in my earlier post is M6 and wish I could keep both hands on the wheel at all times with that powerhouse. I also have a Firehawk M6 which is fun to drive, but I would go A8 on a 16SS and have fun with the paddle shifting.

My bad. That was written poorly. I was wondering which supercharger to choose based on transmission.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret

Based on all my reading I am leaning toward a ProCharger but most folks keep suggesting a Magnuson. I have already ruled out the Edelbrock (My OCD killed it from watching the boards about it's possible issues.)

All info is appreciated.

I chose the Magnuson because its as OEM as you will get and TVS types are the preferred blowers in GM cars. That was big plus in the decision. Plenty of articles discussing that subject on the net.

Honestly, you will get opinions from 2 types...
- guys like me who want a DD, dont track and dont obsess over 1/4 mile times (few)
- guys who tear out internals, live to track and throw thousands at losing 1/10s of a sec. (many)

I would recommend HIGHLY, forgoing decisions based on forums and instead call the speed shops to get accurate info based on your needs - always the best choice. I called everyone in AZ within a 50 mile radius and asked what to buy and why. Some really great info. Out of the 10 I called, Magnuson was the consensus from 7 of the 10 shops, whipple - 2, procharger -1. Procharger being the one I was told to avoid most often (based on maintenance and reliability).

Regardless, you will love whatever you get...its a rush if you can justify the steep price.

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

I chose the Magnuson because its as OEM as you will get and TVS types are the preferred blowers in GM cars. That was big plus in the decision. Plenty of articles discussing that subject on the net.

Honestly, you will get opinions from 2 types...
- guys like me who want a DD, dont track and dont obsess over 1/4 mile times (few)
- guys who tear out internals, live to track and throw thousands at losing 1/10s of a sec. (many)

I would recommend HIGHLY, forgoing decisions based on forums and instead call the speed shops to get accurate info based on your needs - always the best choice. I called everyone in AZ within a 50 mile radius and asked what to buy and why. Some really great info. Out of the 10 I called, Magnuson was the consensus from 7 of the 10 shops, whipple - 2, procharger -1. Procharger being the one I was told to avoid most often (based on maintenance and reliability).

Regardless, you will love whatever you get...its a rush if you can justify the steep price.

Thanks for the info.

My gut tells me that most speed shops want to make money, just as much as the vendors, and will try to sell you more than you need. I agree that TVS is the one that the car manufacturers go with but not sure if that has to do with manufacturing cost or if it's just because they're in bed with them. I've seen that debate over and over. So far what I've gathered is that magnuson will feel like a bigger engine and is most likely going to get loose on you if your not careful and a Procharger will not, unless you run up the Rpm first.

I'm pretty much decided on a Procharger based on multiple things: 1. I'm not trying to have the fastest car out the gate, just a fast car. 2. This car can already rip the tires going out the gate and I really would prefer to keep it to a minimum. 3. Installation is less invasive. 4. Cost of install and cost of the unit seems more reasonable. 5. When I'm already cruising is where I usually get on it.

[jessrayo]

Okay, I'm finally going to jump into this thread and give you my two cents after you already made up your mind. I have a lot of experience with 500+ horsepower forced induction cars. I have owned 4 supercharged cars and 2 very powerful turbo cars. I swapped superchargers a few times looking for more power and have run a total of 6 different supercharger configurations. I have spent a lot of time road racing and trying to squeeze out the fastest lap time while braking, accelerating and cornering in harmony.

I think what you want is the PD supercharger because like toohighpsi has suggested, the power you feel as a driver is extremely linear and predictable. It is the forced induction system I prefer when road racing because the power is the most useable as you move through the rpm range. When you overlay the torque and power curves on the graph they frequently look like a table top. You either have torque or hp everywhere. If you graph the boost, it remains extremely constant at any rpm because the way the supercharger works it maintains constant boost pressure at any rpm. When you drive the car the engine responds completely to throttle position. If you roll into the throttle too fast on a slow corner exit it can spin the tires but if you back off the throttle a hair it responds exactly related to your input. The engine does exactly what you tell it to do. If you are at a stoplight and hammer the throttle it will spin because you have a lot more power than stock everywhere, so you do what you do with your stock car you either let the traction control shut it down a little or you back off a little. To me it is easy to drive this on the street because you adjust the throttle position and it responds. And it is much easier to drive it on a road course because the engine power delivery is so linear, as soon as you feel the car start to oversteer on track out you just back off a hair until it catches up and then roll back into it. On the highway, if you are in a tall gear and give it gas, it has a lot more oompf without a downshift because of the crazy torque. You literally can make easy passes without downshifting despite low rpms. Turbo and centri guys always ask what is so hard about downshifting, well nothing but with a good PD system you just don't even need to.

The centrifugal supercharger and the turbo systems have essentially the exact same compressor wheel and this type of induction makes more boost as the rpms climb. On the low side of the tachometer you have stock power and on the rev limiter you have peak power and the engine output is climbing all across the power-band. The engine is virtually the same as stock at idle because it is making very little boost. The more the rpms climb the more boost you get and the more power you have. You can drive it around town exactly like the stock car because as long you stay in the first half of the throttle range and don't run up the rpms it doesn't hardly ever get into major boost. But if you road race there is a huge track specific learning curve. Every curve is a little different and the engine will give you a different amount of power depending on what rpm you enter the corner at. On the really tight corners it is hard to get usable power because you don't want to try to shift mid corner and if you enter the corner below peak power and roll into the throttle you can start to accelerate and then as the car begins to track out and the engine starts to make more boost it can break loose spontaneously and it is almost impossible to prevent it, at low rpm it doesn't have power so you floor it and then as the rpms climb you get enough power to break loose. You can still go fast but it is a lot more work. When on the highway if you want to pass you must downshift to get the boost going or you have very little power.

When you drag race it really doesn't make much difference because the throttle goes wide open when the light turns green and you just let it ride. On drag radials the PD blower will come out of the hole better because it so much more torque at lower rpms.
When you get on a flat and straight section of pavement the centri or turbo system will have a feeling or never-ending acceleration because when you hammer it, it literally builds more and more power as it accelerates. If you are just into the power to feel the rush, the driver perception is more satisfying with centri or turbo type boost.

As far as PD superchargers go I would install the GM 1.7. Unfortunately ADM is the only shop that seems to be doing it and they have done a lot of leg work to make everything work like stock. Of the 2.3's the Maggie has shown to be the best. The Whipple will most likely be a very good supercharger but they have not released it yet. Any of the PD systems can make enough boost to use all of the fuel the stock car can deliver. I suspect the Whipple is not as efficient and they are experimenting with fuel upgrades to include with the kit to allow it to compete with the other already out there. I know the AGP turbo kit is going to have complete fuel system upgrades available as kit options. Hope this helps.

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Okay, I'm finally going to jump into this thread and give you my two cents after you already made up your mind. I have a lot of experience with 500+ horsepower forced induction cars. I have owned 4 supercharged cars and 2 very powerful turbo cars. I swapped superchargers a few times looking for more power and have run a total of 6 different supercharger configurations. I have spent a lot of time road racing and trying to squeeze out the fastest lap time while braking, accelerating and cornering in harmony.

I think what you want is the PD supercharger because like toohighpsi has suggested, the power you feel as a driver is extremely linear and predictable. It is the forced induction system I prefer when road racing because the power is the most useable as you move through the rpm range. When you overlay the torque and power curves on the graph they frequently look like a table top. You either have torque or hp everywhere. If you graph the boost, it remains extremely constant at any rpm because the way the supercharger works it maintains constant boost pressure at any rpm. When you drive the car the engine responds completely to throttle position. If you roll into the throttle too fast on a slow corner exit it can spin the tires but if you back off the throttle a hair it responds exactly related to your input. The engine does exactly what you tell it to do. If you are at a stoplight and hammer the throttle it will spin because you have a lot more power than stock everywhere, so you do what you do with your stock car you either let the traction control shut it down a little or you back off a little. To me it is easy to drive this on the street because you adjust the throttle position and it responds. And it is much easier to drive it on a road course because the engine power delivery is so linear, as soon as you feel the car start to oversteer on track out you just back off a hair until it catches up and then roll back into it. On the highway, if you are in a tall gear and give it gas, it has a lot more oompf without a downshift because of the crazy torque. You literally can make easy passes without downshifting despite low rpms. Turbo and centri guys always ask what is so hard about downshifting, well nothing but with a good PD system you just don't even need to.

The centrifugal supercharger and the turbo systems have essentially the exact same compressor wheel and this type of induction makes more boost as the rpms climb. On the low side of the tachometer you have stock power and on the rev limiter you have peak power and the engine output is climbing all across the power-band. The engine is virtually the same as stock at idle because it is making very little boost. The more the rpms climb the more boost you get and the more power you have. You can drive it around town exactly like the stock car because as long you stay in the first half of the throttle range and don't run up the rpms it doesn't hardly ever get into major boost. But if you road race there is a huge track specific learning curve. Every curve is a little different and the engine will give you a different amount of power depending on what rpm you enter the corner at. On the really tight corners it is hard to get usable power because you don't want to try to shift mid corner and if you enter the corner below peak power and roll into the throttle you can start to accelerate and then as the car begins to track out and the engine starts to make more boost it can break loose spontaneously and it is almost impossible to prevent it, at low rpm it doesn't have power so you floor it and then as the rpms climb you get enough power to break loose. You can still go fast but it is a lot more work. When on the highway if you want to pass you must downshift to get the boost going or you have very little power.

When you drag race it really doesn't make much difference because the throttle goes wide open when the light turns green and you just let it ride. On drag radials the PD blower will come out of the hole better because it so much more torque at lower rpms.
When you get on a flat and straight section of pavement the centri or turbo system will have a feeling or never-ending acceleration because when you hammer it, it literally builds more and more power as it accelerates. If you are just into the power to feel the rush, the driver perception is more satisfying with centri or turbo type boost.

As far as PD superchargers go I would install the GM 1.7. Unfortunately ADM is the only shop that seems to be doing it and they have done a lot of leg work to make everything work like stock. Of the 2.3's the Maggie has shown to be the best. The Whipple will most likely be a very good supercharger but they have not released it yet. Any of the PD systems can make enough boost to use all of the fuel the stock car can deliver. I suspect the Whipple is not as efficient and they are experimenting with fuel upgrades to include with the kit to allow it to compete with the other already out there. I know the AGP turbo kit is going to have complete fuel system upgrades available as kit options. Hope this helps.

Wow! Thanks for all of that. Your knowledge is invaluable and I really appreciate it.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret

Thanks for the info.

My gut tells me that most speed shops want to make money, just as much as the vendors, and will try to sell you more than you need. I agree that TVS is the one that the car manufacturers go with but not sure if that has to do with manufacturing cost or if it's just because they're in bed with them. I've seen that debate over and over. So far what I've gathered is that magnuson will feel like a bigger engine and is most likely going to get loose on you if your not careful and a Procharger will not, unless you run up the Rpm first.

I'm pretty much decided on a Procharger based on multiple things: 1. I'm not trying to have the fastest car out the gate, just a fast car. 2. This car can already rip the tires going out the gate and I really would prefer to keep it to a minimum. 3. Installation is less invasive. 4. Cost of install and cost of the unit seems more reasonable. 5. When I'm already cruising is where I usually get on it.

To your first paragraph, there were a couple shops that seemed more concerned with profit margin than asking what my end goals/applications were, so that does indeed happen. Those 2 shops were also the 2 highest quotes (over 10k)

Wasnt trying to sway your choice on Procharger...there was much more to the conversations with the shops (too much to type here) and based on my application, they said procharger was not the direction I should go. Doesnt mean its not a great choice.

You'll need to share your results post install...I get my maggie installed S/C setup back today.... cant wait!

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

To your first paragraph, there were a couple shops that seemed more concerned with profit margin than asking what my end goals/applications were, so that does indeed happen. Those 2 shops were also the 2 highest quotes (over 10k)

Wasnt trying to sway your choice on Procharger...there was much more to the conversations with the shops (too much to type here) and based on my application, they said procharger was not the direction I should go. Doesnt mean its not a great choice.

You'll need to share your results post install...I get my maggie installed S/C setup back today.... cant wait!

Thanks for your input. I know you weren't. Everyone's opinion counted here. I just needed to get some collective input. Everything I read said make sure the shop know how you plan on using it and that's what I tried to portray here for those that know more than I do.

You're more than welcome to post about your Maggie here. I would like to hear what you think of your setup, good and not so good.

[diirk]

Just got an email from Whipple. They said release in 30 days for our platform.
Probably right after SEMA.