[tones2SS]

Between the 2, it's Whipple for me. If they do for the Camaro what they did for the S550 Mustang,......the 6th gen Camaro is going to be one fast machine.
The S550 Mustang guys are putting down over 700rwhp and about 550rwtq.
Some are running in the high 120's in the quarter mile.
But, let's see what the Magnuson can do as well.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by crash0117

Can't wait to see them in GA for the 1/2 mile so I can show them what my Maggie power can do.

Now I'm bummed that I can't be in GA, looking forward to see your car with some tires on it!

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by tones2SS

Between the 2, it's Whipple for me. If they do for the Camaro what they did for the S550 Mustang,......the 6th gen Camaro is going to be one fast machine.
The S550 Mustang guys are putting down over 700rwhp and about 550rwtq.
Some are running in the high 120's in the quarter mile.
But, let's see what the Magnuson can do as well.

My best ET and MPH to date, stock engine, Maggie, and dragradials - 129.6 MPH.

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by tones2SS

Between the 2, it's Whipple for me. If they do for the Camaro what they did for the S550 Mustang,......the 6th gen Camaro is going to be one fast machine.
The S550 Mustang guys are putting down over 700rwhp and about 550rwtq.
Some are running in the high 120's in the quarter mile.
But, let's see what the Magnuson can do as well.

I don't think you are going to see that as a single package offered by Whipple - the S550 has forged bottom end from the factory and for fuel mods on the camaro you start needing a cam swap as the main fuel pump is driven by the cam

people have also been blowing their oil pump gears at 700 on the mustang, so they end up needing a rebuild anyway lol!

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Ribak433

Thoughts, pros n cons, etc....
Whipple "claims" more hp to the ground out of the box. But doesn't say at what psi boost level. Magnuson clearly indicates @ 6 psi 550hp/510ftlbs.

Since they are 2 different size superchargers they are not fairly comparable.

The Heartbeat is a 2300, the Whipple is a 2900.

The Heartbeat has the capability to make 850 RWHP the Whipple will be able to make 950 RWHP.

Fit finish quality comparisons are yet to be seen we will get a Whipple ASAP and install it and compare it..

Both superchargers can support way more power than the current LT-1 and LT4 fuel systems can.

Ted.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Since they are 2 different size superchargers they are not fairly comparable.

The Heartbeat is a 2300, the Whipple is a 2900.

The Heartbeat has the capability to make 850 RWHP the Whipple will be able to make 950 RWHP.

While logically based on a pure displacement scenario and Whipple's website - this would seem to be that case, but unfortunately it is not entirely true.

The Whipple is a screw charger requiring a male and female rotor to achieve the claimed internal compression. Due to this design the rotors must have a different number of lobes on each rotor - Whipple's design uses 5 lobes (on the female) and 3 lobes (on the male) Since the female rotor is the driven rotor, the male rotor must spin 5/3 times faster. The max RPM for the 2.9L is rated at 18000 RPM which means the male rotor is turning 30000RPM which is a pretty high bearing speeds for this unit.

The Eaton TVS 2300 is a high-helix roots supercharger meaning it utilizes a set of matched rotors (same # of lobes on each) and due to it’s design, it is not capable of internal compression (which minimizes pumping losses during cruise). It’s Eaton OEM rated speed is at the highest speed allowed for infinite bearing life (yes that means the bearing is expected to last forever) and a max temperature rise across the SC of ~130 degrees C (max outlet temp of 150C) which occurs at 18000 and 2.4 pressure ratio (21psi boost).
Not surprisingly the Whipple 2.9 uses the same bearings, so as you might guess there is quite a bit more flow in the Eaton TVS if we were to set its max speed to the same level as the 2.9L screw. Since both rotors spin the exact same speed in the TVS let’s increase that allowed bearing speed limit to 24000RPM. Now our 150C (302F) outlet temp still applies so we probably can’t run 21 PSI of boost continuously, but 18psi will probably be just fine for a V8 application.

At 18000 RPM a Whipple 2.9L blower is capable of moving 1720 CFM as per the Whipple website.
At 18000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1461 CFM.
At 22000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1770 CFM.
At 24000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1900 CFM.
So to match the 18000 RPM max output of a Whipple 2.9 you need to spin the TVS to about 21,500 – beyond that speed it will outflow the Whipple 2.9L.

A 90mm throttle body is enough flow to support about 750-800 RWHP on a TVS 2300 (the vacuum created by the inlet restriction will cause the bypass to start opening causing high inlet air temps, limit the boost and prevent higher power). To go beyond this you will need a larger 102mm or 108mm throttle body. At about 23000 RPM the inlet port in the TVS 2300 housing will become the restriction and prevent efficient operation at any higher speed so I don’t recommend operation beyond this point with a TVS2300.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

While logically based on a pure displacement scenario and Whipple's website - this would seem to be that case, but unfortunately it is not entirely true.

The Whipple is a screw charger requiring a male and female rotor to achieve the claimed internal compression. Due to this design the rotors must have a different number of lobes on each rotor - Whipple's design uses 5 lobes (on the female) and 3 lobes (on the male) Since the female rotor is the driven rotor, the male rotor must spin 5/3 times faster. The max RPM for the 2.9L is rated at 18000 RPM which means the male rotor is turning 30000RPM which is a pretty high bearing speeds for this unit.

The Eaton TVS 2300 is a high-helix roots supercharger meaning it utilizes a set of matched rotors (same # of lobes on each) and due to it’s design, it is not capable of internal compression (which minimizes pumping losses during cruise). It’s Eaton OEM rated speed is at the highest speed allowed for infinite bearing life (yes that means the bearing is expected to last forever) and a max temperature rise across the SC of ~130 degrees C (max outlet temp of 150C) which occurs at 18000 and 2.4 pressure ratio (21psi boost).
Not surprisingly the Whipple 2.9 uses the same bearings, so as you might guess there is quite a bit more flow in the Eaton TVS if we were to set its max speed to the same level as the 2.9L screw. Since both rotors spin the exact same speed in the TVS let’s increase that allowed bearing speed limit to 24000RPM. Now our 150C (302F) outlet temp still applies so we probably can’t run 21 PSI of boost continuously, but 18psi will probably be just fine for a V8 application.

At 18000 RPM a Whipple 2.9L blower is capable of moving 1720 CFM as per the Whipple website.
At 18000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1461 CFM.
At 22000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1770 CFM.
At 24000 RPM a TVS 2300 blower is capable of moving 1900 CFM.
So to match the 18000 RPM max output of a Whipple 2.9 you need to spin the TVS to about 21,500 – beyond that speed it will outflow the Whipple 2.9L.

A 90mm throttle body is enough flow to support about 750-800 RWHP on a TVS 2300 (the vacuum created by the inlet restriction will cause the bypass to start opening causing high inlet air temps, limit the boost and prevent higher power). To go beyond this you will need a larger 102mm or 108mm throttle body. At about 23000 RPM the inlet port in the TVS 2300 housing will become the restriction and prevent efficient operation at any higher speed so I don’t recommend operation beyond this point with a TVS2300.

Great info, It is yet to be seen on this Gen6 model but in the past with same comparison of 2.3 rotor vs 2.9 rotor the Whipple always makes more power per PSI boost and has lower exit temps which I attribute to larger supercharger turning slower speed.


Ted.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Great info, It is yet to be seen on this Gen6 model but in the past with same comparison of 2.3 rotor vs 2.9 rotor the Whipple always makes more power per PSI boost and has lower exit temps which I attribute to larger supercharger turning slower speed.


Ted.

Good point Ted, previously the Whipple has had better SC inlets, intake manifold, and larger intercoolers compared to those I have seen on the Eaton based devices. Both SCs have been mapped on the Eaton performance stand and there is no operating point that the 2.9 performs more efficiently than the 2.3 TVS, but of course, any restriction in the supporting system components can control the final capability of the supercharger.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Good point Ted, previously the Whipple has had better SC inlets, intake manifold, and larger intercoolers compared to those I have seen on the Eaton based devices. Both SCs have been mapped on the Eaton performance stand and there is no operating point that the 2.9 performs more efficiently than the 2.3 TVS, but of course, any restriction in the supporting system components can control the final capability of the supercharger.

No Doubt.

I should have also included all of our fastest PD blower cars run the whipple, 9.6 in full weight daily driver Gen 5

All the COPO run whipple, All the GT500 Super stockers run Whipple

We have the record for the fastest 2300 highly modified Maggie Gen 5 at 9.8

Recently we built a 300 C SRT8 803 RWHP Whipple equipped.

I am not Bias we just have a lot of data and history with building supercharged combinations.

Who knows The Gen 6 may change all of that.

Ted.

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

I don't think you are going to see that as a single package offered by Whipple - the S550 has forged bottom end from the factory and for fuel mods on the camaro you start needing a cam swap as the main fuel pump is driven by the cam
people have also been blowing their oil pump gears at 700 on the mustang, so they end up needing a rebuild anyway lol!

Yes sir.
A lot of them are installing the OPG's and the crankshaft sprocket gear when installing their Whipple kits.
It's only a real issue when revving the engine to the moon an back all the time. I barely rev past 5,000 on mine. lol

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

Just spent the day talking to 10 speed shops here in Phx - think I hit them all. My criteria was that I was not going to track the car, didn't need to jack up boost as its a DD and wasn't planning on swapping internals into the future keeping it near stock. Without any sway as to which S/C I was looking for heres what was recommended:

Whipple: 3
Magnuson: 6
Procharger: 1

I heard many times that the Procharger was far more prone to problems, didn't spin up nearly as fast as whipple and magnuson and better suited for a car that's been gutted and updated - some went as far as saying its total crap which was surprising considering that's what I was originally going to buy (price). The Whipple was highly recommended more for an already modded car or for a car that will be heavily modded in the future as it provides more power OOB. Magnuson was hands down the recommendation if you want to be closer to stock (me). All 3 have room to grow obviously.

The quoted cost of the Magnuson/Whipple install and tune ranged from $8400 - $10,200 (avg was $9400). I didn't steal the S/C and don't own my own shop nor have favors to cash in - so count on that being the norm cost. Ignore others who claim much lower prices - they are FOS.

I got burnt out scouring the forums getting recommendations from 50 different people all telling you why theirs is better (cause they bought it!). The best source of info are guys who do this all day and have installed all types of F/I systems. I encourage you to call your local speed shop for informed facts. JDP motorsports and Jannetty racing (currently using their tune) are great forum resources as well. If I lived anywhere near Jannetty, his shop would be doing my magnuson install right now!

This post is more for the guy who wants safe power, engine longevity and a kick ass car sticking with near stock setup and not interested 12 sec of straight line fun at all costs. Skilled racing is done on curves dammit!

Thank you for the mention, We are always happy to sell you one for self install and provide the tech support, and tuning to go along with it.

Ted.

[Bigdave18629]

Sorry if this comes off as getting off topic, but this is probably the best thread I have read on putting a S/C on the an SS. Early on Edelbrock was mentioned and no one chimed in. For a DD (week=ender) I don't see that there is much difference between the Magnus and Edelbrock?

I live in Nor-Cal so to begin with I have limited options so any thoughts or recommendations of a shop in the area would be appreciated. Parted with my 60th Anniversary 427 vette so I could have a S/C ride. Didn't want to molest the special edition.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Bigdave18629

Sorry if this comes off as getting off topic, but this is probably the best thread I have read on putting a S/C on the an SS. Early on Edelbrock was mentioned and no one chimed in. For a DD (week=ender) I don't see that there is much difference between the Magnus and Edelbrock?

I live in Nor-Cal so to begin with I have limited options so any thoughts or recommendations of a shop in the area would be appreciated. Parted with my 60th Anniversary 427 vette so I could have a S/C ride. Didn't want to molest the special edition.

Welcome aboard, Being your in the emissions state you will need to select a supercharger with an E.O certification which Edelbrock, Magnuson, and Whipple all offer.

Give me a call with any questions, we offer plug and play power packages above what a standard kit can offer.

Ted.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by Bigdave18629

Sorry if this comes off as getting off topic, but this is probably the best thread I have read on putting a S/C on the an SS. Early on Edelbrock was mentioned and no one chimed in. For a DD (week=ender) I don't see that there is much difference between the Magnus and Edelbrock?

I live in Nor-Cal so to begin with I have limited options so any thoughts or recommendations of a shop in the area would be appreciated. Parted with my 60th Anniversary 427 vette so I could have a S/C ride. Didn't want to molest the special edition.

Not sure where in Nor-Cal you are but the next Red List event will be at Famosa in Bakersfield on Dec 3rd 2016. I'll be there with the white Maggie supercharged 2016 SS, stop by and check it out. I know lots of folks from the bay area make their way down there for the event.