[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

My point is, Blaq's pretending to not be impressed with a car that makes more power than GMs most powerful car ever that is typically $130k+, that was just released for 2019. Give me a break. 760 hp is impressive, even today.

I think he's just not impressed with how long it took to get here, and really it boils down to them just posturing to get a big number...

I mean, let's be really honest... the numbers aren't impressive. They've had almost 4 model years on the ZL1, almost 6 on the Hellcat, and this was the best they could do?

760HP is impressive, but that's about it... the rest so far has a lot to be desired... all I see is another 13-14 GT 500...that will do well in a straight line..

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

Therefore I predict that the base model GT500 will edge out a standard ZL1. The Track Pack GT500 will edge out a ZL1 1LE, if anything, just based upon brute force but, it'll still be slower than a Z06/ZR1 around a track--which a Mustang is not geared to be direct competition for. Ford's real battle, is dealing with dealerships and their god awful ADM's that drive away sales.

I'll agree that I think the new GT500 in any form will best the standard ZL1. However, I don't think you realize just how damn good the ZL1 1LE truly is. Even the ZR1, with all the extra power, lighter weight, etc...could only beat it around the Ring by 6 seconds.. I honestly would be willing to bet pretty heavily that the GT500 is going to disappoint many people with regards to that. Short of tracks with super long straights, it's not going to beat the ZLE.

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I don't know why everyone keeps making this comparison. No one should be comparing the ZR1 or it's engine to the GT500. They aren't even the same class of car. Let's try to keep this Camaro-centric, to which we all know it will not be getting the LT5.

I made the comment because despite the 760 HP numbers, it's still going to be a slower car than many expect it to be. I'll be flat out surprised if it does anything better than a 10.8-10.9

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Im going to try to just stay out of this till some reviews pop up. Other than that its same mindless chatter as last few months.

Come on dude it's fun and you know it. Just enjoy.

Originally Posted by Laststandard

For Camaro ZL1 the argument will become "for the extra $xxxxx I can make it faster / handle better / etc than the GT500"

That's a Mustang GT argument. Us ZL1 guys don't use that. However, the ZL1 WILL retain status as the hands down absolute without question best performance bang for the buck on the planet.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Come on dude it's fun and you know it. Just enjoy.


That's a Mustang GT argument. Us ZL1 guys don't use that. However, the ZL1 WILL retain status as the hands down absolute without question best performance bang for the buck on the planet.

I know it is lol. I had a big response typed out to you and some others and just said you know what its the same old discussion we have had before lol.

But since you brought me back in lol

Why do you think it has no chance against the RE? From what I have seen in C&D and Motortrend they haven't come close to the 10.8 that dodge claims. IIRC they both got 11.8s with the RE.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I think he's just not impressed with how long it took to get here, and really it boils down to them just posturing to get a big number...

I mean, let's be really honest... the numbers aren't impressive. They've had almost 4 model years on the ZL1, almost 6 on the Hellcat, and this was the best they could do?

760HP is impressive, but that's about it... the rest so far has a lot to be desired... all I see is another 13-14 GT 500...that will do well in a straight line..

Ha, why do you have to say "almost" 4 and "almost" 6, when it is simply 3 and 5? I mean, just look at the model years and be honest.

If Ford was only concerned with straight line, they wouldn't be offering a big CF wing on the car and talking about how many pounds of downforce it produces. It will be an all-around performer, like the ZL1, but faster.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I know it is lol. I had a big response typed out to you and some others and just said you know what its the same old discussion we have had before lol.

But since you brought me back in lol

Why do you think it has no chance against the RE? From what I have seen in C&D and Motortrend they haven't come close to the 10.8 that dodge claims. IIRC they both got 11.8s with the RE.

...and 125 mph w/ the RE. Heck, the '13 GT500 trapped that (actually 125.7 mph) and ran 11.6 seconds on "skinny" 285 tires (M/T) with 135 less hp and 200 mph gearing (3rd gear was good to 140 mph IIRC). That GT500 weighed 3,871 lbs. I think the new GT500 will trap around 130-131 mph in the 1/4 mile.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I'll agree that I think the new GT500 in any form will best the standard ZL1. However, I don't think you realize just how damn good the ZL1 1LE truly is. Even the ZR1, with all the extra power, lighter weight, etc...could only beat it around the Ring by 6 seconds.. I honestly would be willing to bet pretty heavily that the GT500 is going to disappoint many people with regards to that. Short of tracks with super long straights, it's not going to beat the ZLE.



I made the comment because despite the 760 HP numbers, it's still going to be a slower car than many expect it to be. I'll be flat out surprised if it does anything better than a 10.8-10.9

Didn't someone rerun the ZR1 and break 7 minutes at the ring? Or was that the segmented run that doesn't really count?

10.8 on street tires for a FE RWD car isn't so bad. It's hard to put that much power down. I think it'll trap 130+ mph.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

As much as I love what GM has done with the Camaro, I think there is a lot of misplaced confidence, especially before ANY true performance metrics have been released, as to where the GT500 will fall performance wise. I wholeheartedly believe that they did their homework on the car and studied their competition before bringing this car into the foray. To that end, I would suspect that they would edge out their competition and not obliterate it.

Ford has gone on record to say that this generation GT500 has gained weight over its previous iteration but, did not specify as to how much so, speculate away. However, the previous GT500 came in at 3920 lbs.

Therefore I predict that the base model GT500 will edge out a standard ZL1. The Track Pack GT500 will edge out a ZL1 1LE, if anything, just based upon brute force but, it'll still be slower than a Z06/ZR1 around a track--which a Mustang is not geared to be direct competition for. Ford's real battle, is dealing with dealerships and their god awful ADM's that drive away sales.

Sounds about right to me.

FYI Motor Trend weighed the previous GT500 and the one they had was 3,871 lbs. As for the new GT500, I still can see sub 4,000 lbs for the standard, and 3,920 lbs for the track pack version. Maybe they'll release that in a twitter puzzle??

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The GT350R is 3,720 lbs, so I would expect the carbon fiber track pack GT500 to be around 3,920 lbs. or less. The GT350 is 3,805 lbs, so I would expect the regular GT500 to be around 4,000 lbs. but wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at 3,990 lbs. If I was Ford I wouldn't want to crest 4,000 lbs. I don't think it's going to hit 4,100 lbs. Contrary to popular opinion, the Mustang and Camaro, comparably equipped, are only about 30-50 lbs apart. The recent 1LE vs. PP2 test showed the Mustang 48 lbs heavier. The SS convertible and GT Convertible are 31 lbs apart (Motor Trend), comparably equipped. I don't see why the ZL1 would be 150-200 lbs lighter than the GT500.

The supercharger and proper cooling could easily add over 200 pounds to the 500 from the 350. Factor in larger brakes, tires/wheels, and you are easily looking at 4100+. Standard configuration. Not sure how much weight a carbon fiber track pack would drop.

I also expect the 500 to have a fully loaded interior and not one half or the other the 350 comes with. That too will add weight.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Didn't someone rerun the ZR1 and break 7 minutes at the ring? Or was that the segmented run that doesn't really count?

Best time it ever has done was 7:08, and that's an unofficial one. Technically, all of the times are unofficial for the ZR1...

No American car has run a sub 7 time yet..

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

10.8 on street tires for a FE RWD car isn't so bad. It's hard to put that much power down. I think it'll trap 130+ mph.

Nope, not bad at all...pretty impressive really.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ha, why do you have to say "almost" 4 and "almost" 6, when it is simply 3 and 5? I mean, just look at the model years and be honest.

Because the GT500 is a 2020 car. The ZL1 debuted in 2017. It will be 4 MY's when the car actually hits the street. The Hellcat debuted in 2014.

That's almost 4 and almost 6....

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

If Ford was only concerned with straight line, they wouldn't be offering a big CF wing on the car and talking about how many pounds of downforce it produces. It will be an all-around performer, like the ZL1, but faster.

I dont think anyone has said they were just concerned with straight line speed. But I can tell you that all that downforce isnt going to help it perform like a ZLE.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Because the GT500 is a 2020 car. The ZL1 debuted in 2017. It will be 4 MY's when the car actually hits the street. The Hellcat debuted in 2014.

That's almost 4 and almost 6....



.

You are switching between model year and year it debuted

the GT500 is coming out as MY2020 That would make it 3 model years from ZL1 and 5 model years from hellcat.

[rocket403]

Cars Ran a 10.88 at 126 with the Challenger Redeye

https://www.cars.com/articles/going-...1420703398783/

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Cars Ran a 10.88 at 126 with the Challenger Redeye

https://www.cars.com/articles/going-...1420703398783/

Hadn't seen that, that's impressive. Also glad to see a legit third party hit Dodge's claim

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I understand what you're saying. I don't think it will be a decidedly or even resounding victory but, I think it would be completely idiotic for Ford to release a vehicle with this much anticipation to be bested by an already existing vehicle that is within their lines of competition. That just doesn't make sense to me. I, for one, would not be upset if the ZL1 does fall to the GT500. I just hope that this continues to breed competition.

They’ve certainly had enough time. The gt500 should beat it out