[cmitchell17]

So I guess I am going to have to take my Circle D TC out since something is wrong with it or either I may have messed up the turbine seal becuase it won't lock and just slips even with full commanded pressure.

I really want to just go back with the stock TC since I know it isn't going to make much difference but I am thinking about trying to pull the transmission to do it.

I have no lift available near me which makes this 1000 time more difficult. Pulling the transmission means pulling whole entire exhaust (this isn't too bad done it plenty of times on my back), pulling heat shields and entire driveshaft, trans support, trans cooler lines (make a huge mess), flywheel bolts, bellhousing bolts (probably pull intake to get to the top ones), use cheap HF sizzor jack to wrap around the transmission and pull it down and hope I have enough room to get it out from under the car.

If I pull the motor, this time I am definitely going to take the hood off (does our hood have a service position?) Depending on how many accessories I have to pull (water pump needs new metal gaskets) it may be easier to go this route. This would mean drain coolant (shouldn't make as big of a mess), pull coolant tank, pull aluminum skid plate, take off AC belt (pain to put back on), pull compressor (bolts hard to get to), exhaust (hopefully threads don't gall again), pull hood, pull alternator, pull intake manifold, bellhousing bolts, then pull motor and hopefully get it high enough to remove torque converter.

I am really thinking it may be easier for me to pull the motor given I don't have a lift and its less work on my back. At that point I might as well pull the cam out and put a better one in with more duration and wider LSA, but then I would need to cut reliefs in the pistons and spend $400-500 on gaskets and bolts.

[AZIROC]

Imo, dropping a trans is easier than pulling a motor. Mostly because you don't have to remove all the wires/sensors. You will have to u hook the exhaust anyway. *or atleast easier when you do.

If you can find some ramps that are high enough or get some quality jack stands. The biggest/toughest part is getting the trans out from under the car. You not lift the car high enough and now you got another problem.

That all being said, stuff like this is where those portable scissor lifts come in real handy. A small investment but will pay for itself over its lifetime. BUT... if jacking the car up is just NOT an option, then yeah, u will need to pull both the motor and trans as one.

[parbreak]

Without a doubt the trans is easier to pull.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by AZIROC

Imo, dropping a trans is easier than pulling a motor. Mostly because you don't have to remove all the wires/sensors. You will have to u hook the exhaust anyway. *or atleast easier when you do.

If you can find some ramps that are high enough or get some quality jack stands. The biggest/toughest part is getting the trans out from under the car. You not lift the car high enough and now you got another problem.

That all being said, stuff like this is where those portable scissor lifts come in real handy. A small investment but will pay for itself over its lifetime. BUT... if jacking the car up is just NOT an option, then yeah, u will need to pull both the motor and trans as one.

So I have the HF scissor lift jack thing made for transmissions with a wratcheting strap on it.

So I would agree with you on the wires and sensor unhooking, but with this car everything is just kind of in place, you can just unhook it and everything kind of stays in its place and there wasn't much worry about snakeing wires through other wires and routing issues.

I forgot to add pulling the motor mount bolts, which the last time I pulled the bolts that hold the mount to the engine and not the bolts below that hold the mount to the subframe. So I may try pulling the other ones since it looks like there is only 2 per side and looks like they are easier to get to.

I still think pulling the transmission will be a lot harder just because there is no room to work and the transmission is so big and you have got to snake it around cooler lines and there is basically zero room between the floor tunnel and the transmission.

Last time I pulled the motor I was surprised how easy it was, I mean its still difficult and more difficult than it needs to be. It would have been way easier too if I had pulled the hood, but I was scared of stripping the hood bolts. I will pull it this time.

The hardest part of course is not pulling it, its more putting it back in. You can forget trying to get it back in exactly like it was from the factory, but I have come to accept that.

[SSUNDVL]

When I change my tc in the next couple of months I will be using 10" wheel cribs on all 4 corners just like I use on my other super low car to pull the trans. HF also has a nice transmission jack, if you are in DFW area feel free to dm me and you can borrow mine as it makes r&r much easier.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by parbreak

Without a doubt the trans is easier to pull.

Definitely agree with this. Obviously better if you can get some lift time...

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by SSUNDVL

When I change my tc in the next couple of months I will be using 10" wheel cribs on all 4 corners just like I use on my other super low car to pull the trans. HF also has a nice transmission jack, if you are in DFW area feel free to dm me and you can borrow mine as it makes r&r much easier.

Thanks for the offer but i'm way far away from there. Ill have to check these out. What do you see the advantage of these is over jack stands? Obviously you couldn't use them with the wheels off. I find the jack stands get in the way trying to roll around on the floor on a creeper which is misery.

I know I should try to pull the transmission just to see if it is harder or not. The biggest thing that worries me going to transmission route is the extremely small room you have to work around the transmission it is just extremely tight up against the tunnel. The other is that I will have to take out the cooler line and I know trans fluid will be everywhere.

I did invest in some of these, which I haven't gotten a lot of good chances to use them but I feel like they will pay off. Problem is you still have to take the line off and once you do fluid will be pouring everywhere and you're going to have to get this in and stop the flow all while doing this on your back with dirt and dust getting in your eyes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11459805322...oAAOSwTKVfDVmm

Has anyone ever pulled the engine out by only taking off the compressor and alternator and leaving everything else on including the exhaust manifolds?

[SSUNDVL]

The only advantage of using the wheel cribs is the height, wheel height plus 10" cribs gives a lot of room, however if you have taller jack stands than I, it might not make sense. However where you put the jack stands you also lose some space under the car vs the wheel cribs seem to free up space.

Taking exhaust and drivetrain stuff out is quick just unpleasant with the room underneath. If you don't already have a trans jack or scissor lift I would prob go with pulling the engine just because I think you could re-use the scissor lift more in the future.

Whichever route you proceed with, I would highly recommend you confirm all gaskets and fluids can be purchased/delivered in a timely manner. Especially if you swap the cam and have to pull the heads.

[Trochoidal]

If I were doing this on the ground, pulling the motor would be the path of least resistance. Pulling the trans and having limited space is a no for me. Not to mention putting it back with limited space is tedious.

After watching a lethal video when they did his converter, the passenger side is tight. The tunnel on these cars don’t have a lot of room. In the air on a lift I’d pull the trans.

Pray has a video showing the motor going back in and he makes that look rather effortless.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PQrBs4HyqTk

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by SSUNDVL

The only advantage of using the wheel cribs is the height, wheel height plus 10" cribs gives a lot of room, however if you have taller jack stands than I, it might not make sense. However where you put the jack stands you also lose some space under the car vs the wheel cribs seem to free up space.

Taking exhaust and drivetrain stuff out is quick just unpleasant with the room underneath. If you don't already have a trans jack or scissor lift I would prob go with pulling the engine just because I think you could re-use the scissor lift more in the future.

Whichever route you proceed with, I would highly recommend you confirm all gaskets and fluids can be purchased/delivered in a timely manner. Especially if you swap the cam and have to pull the heads.

I want to try them out, but not that much to pay $400 for a set.

Yeah, I've taken the exhaust off so many times now I should be pretty fast at it.

I do have the HF scissor transmission jack, but I am still leaning towards pulling the motor again.

And yes I am highly aware of basically everything in this motor being one time use. If you include the Cometic thinner .028 head gaskets I used (which were an insanely ridiculous price of over $200 for both) it would cost you $400 in gaskets and head bolts. Everytime I pull the heads off I keep trying to get myself to buy ARP bolts or studs because I know they will be coming off again soon for some other stupid problem or because something doesn't work right.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

If I were doing this on the ground, pulling the motor would be the path of least resistance. Pulling the trans and having limited space is a no for me. Not to mention putting it back with limited space is tedious.

After watching a lethal video when they did his converter, the passenger side is tight. The tunnel on these cars don’t have a lot of room. In the air on a lift I’d pull the trans.

Pray has a video showing the motor going back in and he makes that look rather effortless.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PQrBs4HyqTk

I am really leaning towards pulling the motor again for the exact same reasons you mentioned. The transmission is extremely massive and there is cooler lines next to it, and its hard to get friends to come and help you. I've taken the rear differential out and put it back in I think 4 times now and while I got better at it, its still large enough and using the scissor lift and trying to get it lined up to thread bolts is not fun. I know the transmission has got to be way worse.


I am now hearing a rattle from the torque converter area. What's weird is it didn't seem to do it when cold and only when warmed up. Its also weird that it only does it in neutral and once you give it any gas and it revs up past idle it goes away, which is extremely consistent with something loose making contact with something at idle when the vibration is worse. Revving it up and it going away is extremely consistent with that too, but its just so weird how it goes away in drive at idle but comes back in neutral at idle. I looked under there today and I can't find anything that's loose but it just sounds exactly like its coming from the bellhousing area.

I will admit I did pry on the torque converter during installation after the engine and trans were mated just because I wanted to ensure the torque converter moved back into the transmission as far as possible so I could measure clearance. I then noticed the mounting pad on the converter where the nut is welded on was bent, I am pretty sure its from me prying on it but I feel like I didn't put near that amount of pressure to bend it the way it was. Either way I still managed to get the bolt in there straight with the threads and tighten it down. I am not sure if that has something to do with my torque converter not locking up or have anything to do with the noise. Only other thing I can think of is I have the spacing wrong or I damaged the seals on the shaft to where it is leaking fluid internally and maybe not giving enough apply pressure on the torque converter clutch if that's even possible I don't know?

[Trochoidal]

I’ve built many converters for race applications that were being used in domestic V8’s. There are no seals in the converter to damage. As a matter of fact, those style converters are nothing but hard parts.

I’ve never built or rebuilt a lockup converter.

If you put pressure on the converter to get it to go in place, the transmission could actually be more of a concern than the converter.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

I’ve built many converters for race applications that were being used in domestic V8’s. There are no seals in the converter to damage. As a matter of fact, those style converters are nothing but hard parts.

I’ve never built or rebuilt a lockup converter.

If you put pressure on the converter to get it to go in place, the transmission could actually be more of a concern than the converter.

So the service manual says it looks like there is one seal I guess at the very bottom of the transmission input shaft. The only thing I could think of is fluid is leaking past the apply piston, which I guess the apply piston would basically be the entire rear cover?

Would you know of any more failure modes?

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

The only thing I could think of is fluid is leaking past the apply piston, which I guess the apply piston would basically be the entire rear cover?

Would you know of any more failure modes?

Well your mating surface would be the machined face of the rear cover. The piston itself would have the clutch and of course additional clutch(s) added to go between the rear cover and the piston face. So yes, I could see if the piston wasn’t getting full pressure the lockup never makes contact/engages.

I don’t know if any more failure modes since your using Circle D. I wouldn’t expect the rear cover to have any issues from a metallurgic standpoint since they’re machined and not stamped.

Do you have older logs with trans temp when the lockup was functioning? I’d expect your trans temps would have elevated slightly without the lockup functioning.

Also, if for some reason the lockup was slipping, your trans temp would also elevate.

Just putting out a couple of diagnostic thoughts