[ember1205]

Originally Posted by chevybill

Does anyone know where Kroger and Sam's club gas is sourced?

I use these two in my daily driver. Camaro usually get shell premium.

The actual gasoline is "sourced" at the exact same place as everything else in your area. It's the same gas as every place else. Since it appears neither of those two are on the list of Top Tier products, it would seem that they're getting the more "generic" additives.

[90503]

Are these top tier additives any different than what you can buy at an auto parts store? Injection cleaner, etc.,...Sta-Bil, Gumout, etc...?

Not all gasoline is put into a tanker at the refinery. The shared pipe-racks and loading racks located miles, hundreds of miles, from any refinery seem questionable as far as brands and additives....Do the truck drivers just add the Additives?....

I think it's pretty much an advertising gimmick for the most part. Carry a bottle or two of your own additive, gas treatment, octane-booster, injection cleaner, etc. just in case you have to get a tankful from an unknown or questionable gas station. As much as I like to support the little guy gas station, one that pumps a lot of gas and gets a lot of fresh deliveries, maintains their tanks and filters, etc., will give the best peace of mind. Good luck and Happy Motoring!...lol

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by chevybill

Does anyone know where Kroger and Sam's club gas is sourced?

I use these two in my daily driver. Camaro usually get shell premium.

High probability it comes out of the Chevron Pascagoula refinery.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by 90503

Are these top tier additives any different than what you can buy at an auto parts store? Injection cleaner, etc.,...Sta-Bil, Gumout, etc...?

Not all gasoline is put into a tanker at the refinery. The shared pipe-racks and loading racks located miles, hundreds of miles, from any refinery seem questionable as far as brands and additives....Do the truck drivers just add the Additives?....

I think it's pretty much an advertising gimmick for the most part. Carry a bottle or two of your own additive, gas treatment, octane-booster, injection cleaner, etc. just in case you have to get a tankful from an unknown or questionable gas station. As much as I like to support the little guy gas station, one that pumps a lot of gas and gets a lot of fresh deliveries, maintains their tanks and filters, etc., will give the best peace of mind. Good luck and Happy Motoring!...lol

"Top Tier" is a trademark name, but as I have tried to explain it is just a higher concentration of the same stuff going in non-Top Tier gas. That does not mean it is not better at cleaning your engine, as I believe it is. It also adds standardization to allow customers more options for a higher quality type gasoline without having to find a branded station like Shell. Just please don't think the quality of the molecules is actually higher than any other generic brands, while marketed that way on their website it just doesn't work that way in real life.

I said that because I think it also adds to your second point. Adding a bottle or two of the products you mentioned will have a very similar effect, just not as convenient and possibly more expensive...I have never bought Top Tier so I am not sure which option is most economical.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

"Top Tier" is a trademark name, but as I have tried to explain it is just a higher concentration of the same stuff going in non-Top Tier gas. That does not mean it is not better at cleaning your engine, as I believe it is. It also adds standardization to allow customers more options for a higher quality type gasoline without having to find a branded station like Shell. Just please don't think the quality of the molecules is actually higher than any other generic brands, while marketed that way on their website it just doesn't work that way in real life.

I said that because I think it also adds to your second point. Adding a bottle or two of the products you mentioned will have a very similar effect, just not as convenient and possibly more expensive...I have never bought Top Tier so I am not sure which option is most economical.

This is not correct. There are very specific additives that are required for Top Tier gas AND they must be at or above certain levels. It is not just a matter of "how much."

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ember1205

This is not correct. There are very specific additives that are required for Top Tier gas AND they must be at or above certain levels. It is not just a matter of "how much."

You're not going to find a generic out there that doesn't already meet those requirements.

My responses are based on what you'll actually find out there today in all but the most rural markets, not just what you'll read on a website.

Of the many many 3rd party terminals I deal with, and the terminal's owned by my employer I have never once come across one that would waste their money buying a generic additive that cant be used as Top Tier, as those costs are passed to the customer.

Again, find me one that doesn't comply. Give me a real world example that would refute my 10+ year career doing this exact thing, and not just what you read online.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

You're not going to find a generic out there that doesn't already meet those requirements.

My responses are based on what you'll actually find out there today in all but the most rural markets, not just what you'll read on a website.

Of the many many 3rd party terminals I deal with, and the terminal's owned by my employer I have never once come across one that would waste their money buying a generic additive that cant be used as Top Tier, as those costs are passed to the customer.

Again, find me one that doesn't comply. Give me a real world example that would refute my 10+ year career doing this exact thing, and not just what you read online.

It seems like you're completely missing a couple of key points...

- Top Tier fuel companies DO NOT USE "generic additives", so there's zero value in your ask above.
- Top Tier fuel companies DO USE completely proprietary BLENDS of additives that have to, at quantity, provide minimum quantities of specific required additives. Since these blends are completely proprietary, there is no way that anyone can validate whether one company's blend is or is not the same as another.

You seem to keep intermingling the generic/non-Top Tier additives with the Top Tier fuels / additives for comparison purposes.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ember1205

It seems like you're completely missing a couple of key points...

- Top Tier fuel companies DO NOT USE "generic additives", so there's zero value in your ask above.
- Top Tier fuel companies DO USE completely proprietary BLENDS of additives that have to, at quantity, provide minimum quantities of specific required additives. Since these blends are completely proprietary, there is no way that anyone can validate whether one company's blend is or is not the same as another.

You seem to keep intermingling the generic/non-Top Tier additives with the Top Tier fuels / additives for comparison purposes.

Maybe that is the confusion. I am not trying to intermingle them, I am trying to explain that the marketing makes them sound like two separate things, but they are in fact THE SAME thing behind the scenes.

ONLY oil majors have proprietary blends. That means the 'unbranded' stations we have been talking about for companies like Conoco does not, Phillips does not, Quicktrip does not, COSTCO does not have proprietary blends, and on and on and on until you get to Shell, BP, Chevron, Exxon. ONLY those companies have proprietary blends, EVERYTHING else is the exact same stuff with the same generic additive, just different concentrations. You can believe you are getting something you aren't if you want to, but trust me...if it isn't from a Branded station it is the same shit you get anywhere else.

Because EVERY terminal wants to be able to sell Top Tier fuel to 'unbranded' stations, they carry generic additive which meets the quality standard for Top Tier. An additive system and piping can easily exceed $500K, so no terminal is going to carry a generic that meets Top Tier and a generic that doesn't. There is no value in doing that. They will carry one product that can serve as non-Top Tier and as Top Tier depending on quantity.

So we end up in the same place we started. You have Branded stations with their own proprietary additive, which all meet Top Tier standards and you have Unbranded stations that CAN get Top Tier fuel anytime they want to by buying fuel triple dosed with the generic to meet the TT requirements. They of course have to spend the $ and register as Top Tier, but that doesnt make the additive any different.....just changes the way they market the product to consumers.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Maybe that is the confusion. I am not trying to intermingle them, I am trying to explain that the marketing makes them sound like two separate things, but they are in fact THE SAME thing behind the scenes.

ONLY oil majors have proprietary blends. That means the 'unbranded' stations we have been talking about for companies like Conoco does not, Phillips does not, Quicktrip does not, COSTCO does not have proprietary blends, and on and on and on until you get to Shell, BP, Chevron, Exxon. ONLY those companies have proprietary blends, EVERYTHING else is the exact same stuff with the same generic additive, just different concentrations. You can believe you are getting something you aren't if you want to, but trust me...if it isn't from a Branded station it is the same shit you get anywhere else.

Because EVERY terminal wants to be able to sell Top Tier fuel to 'unbranded' stations, they carry generic additive which meets the quality standard for Top Tier. An additive system and piping can easily exceed $500K, so no terminal is going to carry a generic that meets Top Tier and a generic that doesn't. There is no value in doing that. They will carry one product that can serve as non-Top Tier and as Top Tier depending on quantity.

So we end up in the same place we started. You have Branded stations with their own proprietary additive, which all meet Top Tier standards and you have Unbranded stations that CAN get Top Tier fuel anytime they want to by buying fuel triple dosed with the generic to meet the TT requirements. They of course have to spend the $ and register as Top Tier, but that doesnt make the additive any different.....just changes the way they market the product to consumers.

I'm curious. Does it cost a brand/company a significant amount of money to be "certified" as top tier? If so, I can see companies trying to save money by not certifying their product, but still having quality requirements that meet the same standard

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

I'm curious. Does it cost a brand/company a significant amount of money to be "certified" as top tier? If so, I can see companies trying to save money by not certifying their product, but still having quality requirements that meet the same standard

A true brand would not bulk at that choice, but an owner of a small convenient store with a pump or two outside, that could be difficult.

These owners have a choice though. They could let Chevron brand their station for example, and Chevron would pay for all that.

That said, someone in a unique location wouldn't need to offer Top Tier to be competitive, so it wouldn't even be a concern for them I am sure.

Top Tier is great because it gives 'the little guy' a way to offer a product that can be considered to be on par with the Branded stuff without having to become a branded station.

That higher amount of additive really is good for your engine too, so it's a good alternate for customers and company. That's my view, but Top Tier is also a direct competitor in a way to our branded stuff as described above.

It is funny this has been a topic on here, for some odd reason I have been tasked a lot in the last few weeks to add Top Tier to multiple contracts in multiple locations throughout the East and Gulf Coast for by unbranded sales team. Before that it is not common at all......coincidence I am sure.