[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by c4racer

yes - that was the end of the article - because they were factoring in price and mid-engine exotic coolness factor. But if you look at every driving metric they gave it to the 911. What they are saying is basically that it's not worth 50% more for something only slightly better.
Which I pretty much agree with myself. But It wasn't that the Corvette was the better car and also happened to be cheaper. So I will say again - if you take away price as a factor, the 911 won this battle hands down.

Would I personally pay $100K for the 911? No way. Would I pay $60K for a C8? Maybe. Certainly more likely anyway.
So I get the jest of the article - the Corvette takes first place because it's hard to justify slightly better sports car for so much more $.
But which is the better car - no doubt in my mind - it's the 911.

Then if it just comes down to price. The Corvette is the best Sports car in the world dollar for dollar. So that just opens the door to comparing it with a $1,000,000 car as well if price has noting to do with it.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by c4racer

This is why many of us, myself included are driving a 6th gen Camaro instead of the European sports cars and sports coupes we used to drive !

Anyone remembered when people were slobbering over a Porcshe when it had a VW bug engine in it? Yep they just saw the insignia "Porsche" and were hypnotized.

[COmaro]

They sell every "POS" Porsche they make at full sticker. The special edition ones, like the 2020 Cayman GT4, are only sold to people who have inside connections, because there are three buyers for every one made. The 2016 Cayman GT4's sell for about what they were new.



The C8 won't make a dent in Porsche sales. At all. They get three buyers for every $100,000+ Cayman GT4, a car with a normally aspirated 6 cylinder engine that is slower 0-60 than a Camaro SS. It isn't about the numbers, unless track times and resale value are what you are measuring.



The 2020 Cayman GT4 laps the Nurburgring a whole 8 seconds slower than a ZL1 1LE (on a lap of over 7 minutes!), even though it has 236 fewer horsepower. 14 seconds slower than a C7 Z06. With only 414 normally aspirated horsepower! Porsche is rumored to be releasing a twin turbo version with over 450 HP next year.

[caSStro18]

Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and other exotics are good sports cars but a doubt they are actually worth the high price tag that people pay for them. To those people who can afford them, these cars are more "status" cars than they are "sports" cars.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by COmaro

They sell every "POS" Porsche they make at full sticker. The special edition ones, like the 2020 Cayman GT4, are only sold to people who have inside connections, because there are three buyers for every one made. The 2016 Cayman GT4's sell for about what they were new.



The C8 won't make a dent in Porsche sales. At all. They get three buyers for every $100,000+ Cayman GT4, a car with a normally aspirated 6 cylinder engine that is slower 0-60 than a Camaro SS. It isn't about the numbers, unless track times and resale value are what you are measuring.



The 2020 Cayman GT4 laps the Nurburgring a whole 8 seconds slower than a ZL1 1LE (on a lap of over 7 minutes!), even though it has 236 fewer horsepower. 14 seconds slower than a C7 Z06. With only 414 normally aspirated horsepower! Porsche is rumored to be releasing a twin turbo version with over 450 HP next year.

Actually the 2020 GT4 has no such limitation. Porsche has said they will build as many as they have orders for.

Here is the Silicon Valley, you can walk into a Porsche dealer and order a GT3, GT3RS, GT4. Infact, the last time I was at my local dealer , they had a GT3 on the showroom floor.

Porsche may do some small limiting in select areas, but they are nowhere near as selective as Ferrari is.

Now, I do believe though that some dealers may not be able to get a hold of a GT3RS or GT4 easily, but that is a dealer/location issue, not a Porsche issue. Here in the Bay Area there is a lot of money, so the dealers here are pretty stocked and not surprised when someone comes in and wants to order a GT car.

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by caSStro18

Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and other exotics are good sports cars but a doubt they are actually worth the high price tag that people pay for them. To those people who can afford them, these cars are more "status" cars than they are "sports" cars.

Ferrari and Lamborghini I might agree are more status oriented buyers, but a much higher percentage of Porsche buyers actually track their cars than Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, or any US made car.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

Anyone remembered when people were slobbering over a Porcshe when it had a VW bug engine in it? Yep they just saw the insignia "Porsche" and were hypnotized.

Yeh...its why I too considered them a POS. They were a joke.

[Dethsupp0rt]

I come here to get away from stupid threads like this that are prevalent in the Corvette forum.

You should go there, you'll fit right in.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by protovack

Porsche...good cars but they nickel and dime you for every little option, even things that come standard on more mainstream cars. Not worth it in my opinion, but I still want one. I'd take a 718 Cayman

The c8 is kind of taking the nickle and dime you approach now too unfortunately.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Actually the 2020 GT4 has no such limitation. Porsche has said they will build as many as they have orders for.

Here is the Silicon Valley, you can walk into a Porsche dealer and order a GT3, GT3RS, GT4. Infact, the last time I was at my local dealer , they had a GT3 on the showroom floor.

Porsche may do some small limiting in select areas, but they are nowhere near as selective as Ferrari is.

Now, I do believe though that some dealers may not be able to get a hold of a GT3RS or GT4 easily, but that is a dealer/location issue, not a Porsche issue. Here in the Bay Area there is a lot of money, so the dealers here are pretty stocked and not surprised when someone comes in and wants to order a GT car.

That's what they are saying right now but historically they've had far more buyers than cars available. I hope they do make a ton so I can buy a new gt4. I'd take it over the gt3 since I prefer the mid engine driving experience over rear engine.

[Crawdog450]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

I would admit there was a significant period of time from probably around 1972-1988 when Corvettes were, uh, less than world class shall we say. When I say I come from a Corvette family my Uncle has a ‘66 convertible with a base 327/300 hp 4 speed and a 2013 427 convertible. My cousin has a 2005 base 6 speed. My Mom has 2016 2LT trim and Z51 package. We are all in consensus that the Vette did kinda suck for a while, especially through the Malaise era..... The Porsche 911 never went through a Malaise era. Having said that, you can bet Porsche owners were basing their opinions on that survey on outdated and long since improved upon generations of Vettes.

Anyone who’s ever bashed a Corvette from the last 20 years - especially the last 5 of the 7th gen - just never drove one.

Well stated. Theres are lot of reviews here based on information having never even been in one much less driven one. I hated Porsche too till I drove them.... The damn things are really good. I do firmly believe the New Corvette is more based on the McLaren than anything else. You should compare those!!!!! and............ GO!

And lets remember, The new Corvette is a $59,000 right? Everyone loves that!!! BUT Dont expect a $234,000 McLaren. It has to be built and they have to make money, It will be a $59,000 car with awesome performance, but she gonna be cheap(er) I am ready for my attacks >..... GO

[Crawdog450]

Originally Posted by caSStro18

Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and other exotics are good sports cars but a doubt they are actually worth the high price tag that people pay for them. To those people who can afford them, these cars are more "status" cars than they are "sports" cars.

Add McLaren's to that list. Here in Los Angeles there are several of them at the tracks. I got my butt whooped by a brand new Lambo Aventador SVJ on Autoclub here in SOCAL. BUT you right... thats next level stuff to track it.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Porsche builds great cars, no doubt. They also make a ton of money on options, if you go and price out any Porsche with any of the reasonable options that most people would want...not loading it mind you, but things like sport-chrono, active suspension, etc., they usually come out to about 1.5xbase price. That's your "real cost" for any model.

They dump a ton of money into keeping the cars competitive, but the rear engine chassis is inherently inferior, so as every other car ups the performance level, they have to go back to the drawing board and go to more and more extreme lengths. It just so happens that making them wider looks pretty good, but the width is getting out of control, then there's active suspension, 4-wheel steering, and so on. A ZL1-1LE has none of these and hangs with GT3s on the track. I'm not saying that a ZL1 has all the same nice aluminum and leather parts, but it doesn't suck in that department either. At the end of the day, it takes more and more money and exotic engineering to keep their chassis fast in the face of ever increasing competition. Meanwhile, Chevy, doing a mid-engined corvette, will once again up the ante and Porsche will be forced to do something radical to remain on top...if the can.

I think that 20 or more years ago, the divisions between a 911 and an american sports car were more than a mile wide. Before the information age, it seemed like we just decided to not compete in any meaningful way, but now it seems that everyone is constantly competing with everyone and at least in the automotive world, we've enjoyed the efforts of this for 10 or so years.

In those same years, we've seen companies like Porsche have to resort to SUVs and passenger cars. Not that they are bad, but they seem to be the cars you buy because you couldn't justify the one you really wanted...so you "still get a Porsche" as consolation prize.

They are still great cars, but I think the next few years will seriously put the hurt on them trying to keep the performance relevant. Porsche should just put a 911-esque body on the Cayman and call it good, it is capable of reaching a higher maximum of performance. For too many people, the defining factor is that grocery-seat and the rear engine. Chevy just redefined the Corvette.... I'm going to go out on a limb and say the current 911 platform will be the last of it's kind, it'll either have hybrid drive and motors on the front two wheels on the next iteration, mid-engine, or a combination of both. There is too much performance potential that Chevrolet is about to unleash in the next few years...

[c4racer]

It is so choice. If you have the means I highly recommend picking one up!

Seriously - people who haven’t owned one or even driven one should not be bashing Porsche just because they are expensive. That’s akin to a Porsche owner bashing corvette because it’s so cheap. Reality a lot of people actually own both. I have a Porsche and two camaros. Go figure.