1le square setup squirrelly rear end upon hard accel

Tubtub · 11-24-2020, 08:22 AM

Having an issue that noone can seem to figure out or talks about. 2019 ss 1le, winter tire setup i put together is 19x10 wheels with 285/35/19 tires x4. Offset is at 23, it's the mrr m716 replica wheels.

Issue I've been having is upon straight line hard acceleration the back end is consistently squirrelly, it don't track straight. Wtf is up? Just because I used smaller rear wheels???

Most noticeable in 3rd gear from 60-90 mph.**

NeverDie · 11-24-2020, 08:26 AM

You have an active differential that is attempting to distribute power now through narrower tires with a squishier tread compound.

Tubtub · 11-24-2020, 08:28 AM

That's what I thought. It feels super dangerous on the freeway switching lanes , downshifting to 3rd between 60-90 mph. Just moves rhythmically back and forth like I'm cornering. Anyway word of caution for anyone contemplating square setup it sucks.

Alpha1BC · 11-24-2020, 08:59 AM

It's not the fact that you're on a square setup that's causing issues, it's that you're over-driving the tires. Like NeverDie pointed out, you're on a much softer tires compound and narrow tires. The 1LE ABS/TC/ESC cals are built around wider/grippier summer performance tires, but on top of that winter tires aren't meant to downshift and put power to the pavement (especially at the speeds you're talking about). Winter tires are meant to drive normally on and keep traction on slippery surfaces, you can't expect them to perform like the OE tires. There's no discussions on it since it's pretty much expected in situations like that. Similar to how there's no discussions on how switching from OE to all season tires makes you slower on the track, it's inferred that when you switch away from a grippy summer tire that you're not going to get the same performance anymore and you have to adjust your driving style accordingly.

pbsinternet1le · 11-24-2020, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubtub

That's what I thought. It feels super dangerous on the freeway switching lanes , downshifting to 3rd between 60-90 mph. Just moves rhythmically back and forth like I'm cornering. Anyway word of caution for anyone contemplating square setup it sucks.

Probably your tire choice sucks. 19 inch square 305 with g3's not g3r i pulled 1.5g this past weekend. Sticks like glue. Tire wear with rotation is much better and understeer is virtually eliminated.

Alpha1BC · 11-24-2020, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbsinternet1le

Probably your tire choice sucks. 19 inch square 305 with g3's not g3r i pulled 1.5g this past weekend. Sticks like glue. Tire wear with rotation is much better and understeer is virtually eliminated.

OP is talking about a winter setup in 285/35/19. Highly doubt it's anywhere close to a g3 lol

Tubtub · 11-24-2020, 09:07 AM

I have the alpin pa4. Best you can get for winter. Also, I'm not having any issue with wheelspin. Seems kind of ridiculous that you can't safely full throttle without danger in "performance winter tires."

Tubtub · 11-24-2020, 09:09 AM

I should be able to accelerate in a straight line without fear between 60-90 mph. There's discussion to be had, and there's a problem here. Straight line acceleration is not "overdriving".

Alpha1BC · 11-24-2020, 09:32 AM

Winter tires on their own will never have as much traction capacity as a summer tire like what comes stock on a 1LE. On top of that, you put a narrower tire on the rear which only makes things worse. Likely the only reason you're not having wheelspin issues is because TC is still intervening but since it's not cal'd for that tire it gets more slip in before getting caught, therefore making it squirrely. Even with a wider winter tire, it's still going to be more squirrely than OE accelerating hard in a straight line because of the much lower traction threshold. It's a trade-off just like any other tire, you can't drastically improve cold/slippery condition traction and expect it to have the same tractive capabilities as OE in more demanding dry scenarios. You can still accelerate from 60-90, but you also have to respect the fact that you're driving a RWD car with 455 hp on a less capable tire. There's as much discussion to be had here as there is about why we can't drive on the OE tires in snow; it's simply beyond the limits of what the chosen tire coupled with the system's calibration is designed for/capable of, and trying to push beyond those performance limits is overdriving by definition...

That1guy_tim · 11-24-2020, 09:42 AM

I 3rd it's the fact you are on a snow tire with 455hp... Have your alignment specs checked as well. Yes your alignment can be out of wack already.

This issue has nothing to do with square setup.. lots of us track a square setup and I personally see 150+ mph at my home track.

Tubtub · 11-24-2020, 09:56 AM

Thank you guys. Guess I will have to accept no full throttle when I have my winter tires as it pretends it's cornering in a straight line hah. Btw alignment didn't help, I'll try track alignment soon.

That1guy_tim · 11-24-2020, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubtub

Thank you guys. Guess I will have to accept no full throttle when I have my winter tires as it pretends it's cornering in a straight line hah. Btw alignment didn't help, I'll try track alignment soon.

track alignment will probably make your issue worse. you'll be running more camber which means even less tire on the ground in a straight line.

Uncle Sam · 11-24-2020, 10:57 AM

I remember driving my Lotus on R888s and getting wheelspin at around 35 degrees outside temperature turning a corner out of my neighborhood. This car had about 50 lb/ft of torque at low rpms!

I remember stepping on the gas in my SC Cobra when it was about 25 degrees outside and almost losing it in a straight line. 500 lb/ft on a cold pavement ...

I learned winter driving demands careful throttle control.

Alpha1BC · 11-24-2020, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubtub

Thank you guys. Guess I will have to accept no full throttle when I have my winter tires as it pretends it's cornering in a straight line hah. Btw alignment didn't help, I'll try track alignment soon.

Yup, such is the life of dailying a camaro in snowy climates

At the end of the day even if you do push it the car should keep you pointed where you're steering through the use of controls systems even though it feels loose, but definitely understand that it feels less secure/stable than before and maybe don't want to be a guinea pig to find out haha.

11-24-2020, 08:22 AM	#1
Tubtub Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 27	1le square setup squirrelly rear end upon hard accel Having an issue that noone can seem to figure out or talks about. 2019 ss 1le, winter tire setup i put together is 19x10 wheels with 285/35/19 tires x4. Offset is at 23, it's the mrr m716 replica wheels. Issue I've been having is upon straight line hard acceleration the back end is consistently squirrelly, it don't track straight. Wtf is up? Just because I used smaller rear wheels??? Most noticeable in 3rd gear from 60-90 mph.**

11-24-2020, 08:59 AM	#4
Alpha1BC Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,001	It's not the fact that you're on a square setup that's causing issues, it's that you're over-driving the tires. Like NeverDie pointed out, you're on a much softer tires compound and narrow tires. The 1LE ABS/TC/ESC cals are built around wider/grippier summer performance tires, but on top of that winter tires aren't meant to downshift and put power to the pavement (especially at the speeds you're talking about). Winter tires are meant to drive normally on and keep traction on slippery surfaces, you can't expect them to perform like the OE tires. There's no discussions on it since it's pretty much expected in situations like that. Similar to how there's no discussions on how switching from OE to all season tires makes you slower on the track, it's inferred that when you switch away from a grippy summer tire that you're not going to get the same performance anymore and you have to adjust your driving style accordingly. __________________ 2017 SS 1LE.

11-24-2020, 09:32 AM	#9
Alpha1BC Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,001	Winter tires on their own will never have as much traction capacity as a summer tire like what comes stock on a 1LE. On top of that, you put a narrower tire on the rear which only makes things worse. Likely the only reason you're not having wheelspin issues is because TC is still intervening but since it's not cal'd for that tire it gets more slip in before getting caught, therefore making it squirrely. Even with a wider winter tire, it's still going to be more squirrely than OE accelerating hard in a straight line because of the much lower traction threshold. It's a trade-off just like any other tire, you can't drastically improve cold/slippery condition traction and expect it to have the same tractive capabilities as OE in more demanding dry scenarios. You can still accelerate from 60-90, but you also have to respect the fact that you're driving a RWD car with 455 hp on a less capable tire. There's as much discussion to be had here as there is about why we can't drive on the OE tires in snow; it's simply beyond the limits of what the chosen tire coupled with the system's calibration is designed for/capable of, and trying to push beyond those performance limits is overdriving by definition... __________________ 2017 SS 1LE.

11-24-2020, 09:42 AM	#10
That1guy_tim Drives: Camaro 1ss Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 495	I 3rd it's the fact you are on a snow tire with 455hp... Have your alignment specs checked as well. Yes your alignment can be out of wack already. This issue has nothing to do with square setup.. lots of us track a square setup and I personally see 150+ mph at my home track. __________________ Follow me on IG for build thread! https://www.instagram.com/tracked_1ss/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Tracked_1ss FortuneAuto Coilovers! https://shop-fortune-auto.com/produc...ries-coilovers

11-24-2020, 08:26 AM	#2
NeverDie Account Suspended Drives: 2017 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: AZ Posts: 429	You have an active differential that is attempting to distribute power now through narrower tires with a squishier tread compound.

11-24-2020, 08:28 AM	#3
Tubtub Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 27	That's what I thought. It feels super dangerous on the freeway switching lanes , downshifting to 3rd between 60-90 mph. Just moves rhythmically back and forth like I'm cornering. Anyway word of caution for anyone contemplating square setup it sucks.

11-24-2020, 09:07 AM	#7
Tubtub Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 27	I have the alpin pa4. Best you can get for winter. Also, I'm not having any issue with wheelspin. Seems kind of ridiculous that you can't safely full throttle without danger in "performance winter tires."

11-24-2020, 09:09 AM	#8
Tubtub Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 27	I should be able to accelerate in a straight line without fear between 60-90 mph. There's discussion to be had, and there's a problem here. Straight line acceleration is not "overdriving".

11-24-2020, 09:56 AM	#11
Tubtub Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 27	Thank you guys. Guess I will have to accept no full throttle when I have my winter tires as it pretends it's cornering in a straight line hah. Btw alignment didn't help, I'll try track alignment soon.

11-24-2020, 10:57 AM	#13
Uncle Sam Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LE Hyper Blue Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Rockville, Maryland Posts: 373	I remember driving my Lotus on R888s and getting wheelspin at around 35 degrees outside temperature turning a corner out of my neighborhood. This car had about 50 lb/ft of torque at low rpms! I remember stepping on the gas in my SC Cobra when it was about 25 degrees outside and almost losing it in a straight line. 500 lb/ft on a cold pavement ... I learned winter driving demands careful throttle control.

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