[Richard0nee]

If you're a good driver with good air.. Below 1.9 60fts..

SS M6 - 12.3 - 12.5
GT PP - 12.8-13.0
V6 1LE - 13.3 -13.6??

Just my opinion..

I tried launching from 3k - 4k a few times.. The 3rd practice run was the best and I know with more practice, I can get it right one day.. May go through a few clutches tho lol

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

If you're a good driver with good air.. Below 1.9 60fts..

SS M6 - 12.3 - 12.5
GT PP - 12.8-13.0
V6 1LE - 13.3 -13.6??

Just my opinion..

I tried launching from 3k - 4k a few times.. The 3rd practice run was the best and I know with more practice, I can get it right one day.. May go through a few clutches tho lol

Those time really don't make any sense. You are saying that a GT that has a good 2-3mph trap speed disadvantage is .5 seconds off off the SS, but a V6 that has a 10mph trap speed disadvantage is .5 seconds off of a GT?

I'm sorry, this doesn't add up. With a 103mph trap speed, it's going to take an excellent driver with excellent air to touch a 13.3 in a 1le v6. You are looking at a 12.5 in the GT easy with comparable driver and air. A 10mph trap speed differential is huge.

[SpookShow'84]

With a good driver and air 100% stock SS cars can go 11.90's.

If you only want to talk 1/4 times, the V6 1LE you're saying isn't comparable to the GT. How then is it comparable to the SS when it's .6 slower than an SS glory pass to glory pass? You can't have it both ways.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

With a good driver and air 100% stock SS cars can go 11.90's.

If you only want to talk 1/4 times, the V6 1LE you're saying isn't comparable to the GT. How then is it comparable to the SS when it's .6 slower than an SS glory pass to glory pass? You can't have it both ways.

You really aren't taking glory passes now and using them as the average deviation are you?

[SpookShow'84]

That's exactly what you did calling GT a 12.5.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

That's exactly what you did calling GT a 12.5.

I believe you read it and took the post wrong. What he said was

". . . it's going to take an excellent driver with excellent air to touch a 13.3 in a 1le v6. You are looking at a 12.5 in the GT easy with comparable driver and air."

He didn't say these were the "everyman's" times. These are with an excellent drive and air.

[SpookShow'84]

Still waiting for an answer on why the GT is more comparable to the SS over the V61LE other than a myopic view of quarter times that's being battered around by a couple tenths. In general the splits are so close it's within the noise model to model. Got an answer other than silence or deflection?

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Those time really don't make any sense. You are saying that a GT that has a good 2-3mph trap speed disadvantage is .5 seconds off off the SS, but a V6 that has a 10mph trap speed disadvantage is .5 seconds off of a GT?

I'm sorry, this doesn't add up. With a 103mph trap speed, it's going to take an excellent driver with excellent air to touch a 13.3 in a 1le v6. You are looking at a 12.5 in the GT easy with comparable driver and air. A 10mph trap speed differential is huge.

Well that's your opinion and I respect that. IMO, a good 1/4 run depends on a few things and not just trap speed:

1. Power to weight ratio
2. Gearing
3. Suspension

Factoring in DA, driver mod, etc will ALL play a role. The video above showed the suspension issue they had. It's not that the Mustang was slow, putting the power down wasn't as easy. When I had my 14 5.0, it still wheel hopped a lot but not as much as the 15+ IRS.

Look at the trap speed of the GT350's... they will trap 116mph+ compared to an SS at 114mph+ but run similiar 1/4 times to an SS. Why? Possibly due to suspension differences, torque differences, weight differences, etc.

My point is.. trap speed although an indication of power, it's not the only standalone metric in the 1/4.

Even in the video, they couldn't get the M6 GT to run under 13.0. But, I personally believe it can run a 12.8+ with a good driver who knows the car.

12.5 is possible with an auto GT such as 12.0 is possible with an auto SS (plenty of videos of this too).

Also, see post #204 from this thread.. Almost identical times but 2 mph difference in trap speed

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...450694&page=15

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

Still waiting for an answer on why the GT is more comparable to the SS over the V61LE other than a myopic view of quarter times that's being battered around by a couple tenths. In general the splits are so close it's within the noise model to model. Got an answer other than silence or deflection?

You can re-read all my posts. I'm fairly certain I laid it all out.

Really what it comes down to is

1) V8 pony car vs V6 pony car
2) everything else

It really is that simple.

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

Well that's your opinion and I respect that. IMO, a good 1/4 run depends on a few things and not just trap speed:

1. Power to weight ratio
2. Gearing
3. Suspension

Factoring in DA, driver mod, etc will ALL play a role. The video above showed the suspension issue they had. It's not that the Mustang was slow, putting the power down wasn't as easy. When I had my 14 5.0, it still wheel hopped a lot but not as much as the 15+ IRS.

Look at the trap speed of the GT350's... they will trap 116mph+ compared to an SS at 114mph+ but run similiar 1/4 times to an SS. Why? Possibly due to suspension differences, torque differences, weight differences, etc.

My point is.. trap speed although an indication of power, it's not the only standalone metric in the 1/4.

Even in the video, they couldn't get the M6 GT to run under 13.0. But, I personally believe it can run a 12.8+ with a good driver who knows the car.

12.5 is possible with an auto GT such as 12.0 is possible with an auto SS (plenty of videos of this too).

Also, see post #204 from this thread.. Almost identical times but 2 mph difference in trap speed

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...450694&page=15

Trap speed will give you the best idea of the cars capabilities, plain and simple.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Trap speed will give you the best idea of the cars capabilities, plain and simple.

Not its capabilities, its horsepower. ET and trap speed give you the best idea of its capabilities. One is useless without the other.

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[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

You are looking at a 12.5 in the GT easy

Why are you comparing the absolute best AUTO Mustang GT time to a STICK SHIFT V6 Camaro? The 1LE is a track/autox oriented package which appeals to people who will run on road courses or autocrosses. Such buyers typically want a stick shift, so if they shopped a Mustang GT against a 1LE V6, they're looking at an M6. Stick shift Mustang GTs run low 13s around 110 in the 1/4 ('hero' 12.79 per internet), so yes have an advantage in that venue over a V6 Camaro. I will point out the obvious here, if the 1/4 mile matters to the track-day buyer that much, a stripped 1SS Camaro will beat a Mustang GT as badly in the 1/4 as the Mustang GT beats the V6 Camaro, PLUS it will beat the GT on a road course. Of course I am talking with the SAME driver here, since it will be the prospective track-day buyer driving whichever car they choose to buy.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Not its capabilities, its horsepower. ET and trap speed give you the best idea of its capabilities. One is useless without the other.

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Trap speed gives you the best idea of ET AND horsepower. There are far more variables in ET alone. Good or bad 60', shifting too slow, shifting too soon, wrong gearing etc. Trap speed gives you the best indicator of what the vehicle is truly capable of. It's not perfect, but it is the one variable that gives you an idea of what vehicles can do from a roll, or what they can do with excellent traction (slicks or drag radials).

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Why are you comparing the absolute best AUTO Mustang GT time to a STICK SHIFT V6 Camaro? The 1LE is a track/autox oriented package which appeals to people who will run on road courses or autocrosses. Such buyers typically want a stick shift, so if they shopped a Mustang GT against a 1LE V6, they're looking at an M6. Stick shift Mustang GTs run low 13s around 110 in the 1/4 ('hero' 12.79 per internet), so yes have an advantage in that venue over a V6 Camaro. I will point out the obvious here, if the 1/4 mile matters to the track-day buyer that much, a stripped 1SS Camaro will beat a Mustang GT as badly in the 1/4 as the Mustang GT beats the V6 Camaro, PLUS it will beat the GT on a road course. Of course I am talking with the SAME driver here, since it will be the prospective track-day buyer driving whichever car they choose to buy.

Re-read the context of my posts. crysalis_01 understood it.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Trap speed gives you the best idea of ET AND horsepower. There are far more variables in ET alone. Good or bad 60', shifting too slow, shifting too soon, wrong gearing etc. Trap speed gives you the best indicator of what the vehicle is truly capable of. It's not perfect, but it is the one variable that gives you an idea of what vehicles can do from a roll, or what they can do with excellent traction (slicks or drag radials).




Re-read the context of my posts. crysalis_01 understood it.

Everything you just listed is exactly why trap doesn't mean anything by itself. You can have 1000hp and no traction and still turn a high mph. But your ET will show the difference. Look at the times of the Shelby GT KR that came out last year. 800hp and couldn't get into the 11s.

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[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Everything you just listed is exactly why trap doesn't mean anything by itself. You can have 1000hp and no traction and still turn a high mph. But your ET will show the difference. Look at the times of the Shelby GT KR that came out last year. 800hp and couldn't get into the 11s.

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It is the single best variable when trying to figure out what a vehicle is capable of.

Would you rather have a car that runs 14.0 @ 99mph at the hands of an average driver or one that runs 14.2@ 109mph at the hands of the same average driver?