[oldman]

I felt with my sub .600 lift gentle cam lobe a regular long travel lifter would work Johnson 2110 vs the reduce travel 2110R. I'm also run more valve spring pressure just to keep the lifter from over pumped. I will note that with the TSP dual valve springs (recommended), with the TSP cam (supercharger grind), it would appear to me there was valve float / lifter pump up as there was "impact" type wear on the deceleration ramps on my cam. As an aside I do believe there will be intake valve failures on these large lift / fast profile cams as the stock hollow intake valves just were NOT designed to take these loads, especially if there is ANY valve bounce / lifter pump up. Even items that are not addressed like pushrods (flex) can contribute to pump up etc.

[Darth Martel]

I haven't talked to my installer about preload, primarily because I hadn't heard about it prior to you guys mentioning it. So, I guess I need to talk to him about that. I do have a couple questions though. For an experienced mechanic, is preload a standard procedure? Is it something that's just understood to need to happen when installing lifters? I don't know if what was supplied in the kit included adjustable or fixed length rods. Is it reasonable that if the kit included fixed length rods and lifters, etc... that the installer not do any type of preload check, and assume the rods provided worked with the lifters? I'm not a mechanic so, I don't know what's assumed or expected or what when it comes to this.

Also, does preload need to be checked on each lifter? If you determine the length on one, does that same length apply to the rest or will it vary from lifter to lifter? You said it took you 4 hours to go througj it so, I'm thinking it's all individual lifter preload but, I just want to make sure.

[L78toLT1]

Does anyone have experience with the TSP adjustable roller tip rockers? Their website says they fit '15 & up Corvettes. I wouldn't think that the vette uses different valve covers, but I could be wrong.

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-8294-t...nnion-kit.aspx

[Darth Martel]

I haven't confirmed this with either my installer or supplier but, I'm thinking the pushrods included in the kit are not adjustable but the Texas Speed 3/8" pushrods for the Camaro. How is preload dealt with in that case? I'm just going off of what I would do since I've known zero about preload prior to this discussion but, if one were to just assume the pushrods included in the kit were appropriate, is it reasonable to just install the lifters and pushrods, etc... without worrying about preload? Or despite what's included in the kit, is it the installer's responsibility to do preload checks and install appropriately sized pushrods for each lifter? Ultimately, I don't know if the faulty lifters failed because of no preload checks or if they just failed but, that's kinda what I'm thinking at this point.

[KingLT1]

You have to measure and then order then correct length push rods.

Measuring requires:

1) Start at TDC #1 both valves should be on the base circle of the cam.

2) Use Comp adjustable push rod to find zero lash.

3) After finding Zero lash, measure the length of the adjustable push rod with a 8" digital caliper.

4) Add the recommended lifter preload (depending on the lifters you used) to the measurement.

5) Order that length of pushrod.


There are plenty of Youtube videos and written guides on the Internet on exactly how to find zero lash on LS/LT engines if you need further assistance.

[Darth Martel]

Thanks King. At some point, I'll be doing this myself. I think my immediate question is if that's something any competent installer will do as standard? Especially if a kit they receive only has a set of fixed length pushrods. Which makes me question why a supplier would only send a kit with only fixed length pushrods, if the process requires a selection of varied lengths to choose from?

[SSDan]

Originally Posted by Darth Martel

Thanks King. At some point, I'll be doing this myself. I think my immediate question is if that's something any competent installer will do as standard? Especially if a kit they receive only has a set of fixed length pushrods. Which makes me question why a supplier would only send a kit with only fixed length pushrods, if the process requires a selection of varied lengths to choose from?

Most of the big performance shops who sell cam kits will do the R&D on their shop car or a volunteer customer car to finalize the cam specs, get the dyno results and determine which parts to offer with the kit (valve springs, push rods, -etc.) Part of the R&D would be to do all the preload measuring stuff and from that determine push rod length. After that they ship all their kits with that length push rod with their assumption that the R&D work determined the right length. Many will argue that you should not trust the kit specs and should do the push rod measurements to make sure. Many local performance shops just trust the kit specs and install the supplied length push rods and move on.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by SSDan

Most of the big performance shops who sell cam kits will do the R&D on their shop car or a volunteer customer car to finalize the cam specs, get the dyno results and determine which parts to offer with the kit (valve springs, push rods, -etc.) Part of the R&D would be to do all the preload measuring stuff and from that determine push rod length. After that they ship all their kits with that length push rod with their assumption that the R&D work determined the right length. Many will argue that you should not trust the kit specs and should do the push rod measurements to make sure. Many local performance shops just trust the kit specs and install the supplied length push rods and move on.

Yep and I believe that is why most sell kits with LS7 lifters because they soak up any minor variances that can likely occur from one engine to the next. However imo ymmv, the lifter preload should be measured and verified on each and every engine that gets a cam swap and especially heads/cam. It's just good practice that a good mechanic will always do. It doesn't take long to check a couple valves, then you simply pay attention to how many turns on the rocker bolt it takes to hit 22ft lbs for the rest of them. Normally you end up between 3/4 and 1 1/4 turns past zero lash to hit 22ft lbs with most drop in lifters. So if the first 2 valves you measured call for X length and you install that length pushrod and it takes 1 full turn past zero lash to hit 22ft lbs, The rest of the valves should follow suit. If not then I would investigate. I have ran into cases where ported heads were not the same height across the tops of the valve stems(likely due to the valve job) and that will cause some inconsistencies with preload from one valve to the next. I have never put a cam in a stock head engine...If I pull the engine apart it gets Heads/Cam/Intake. I know Pray has ran into a lot of core shift issues on stock heads...not sure what impact that might have this subject.

[Darth Martel]

Well, I got my car back from the installer yesterday. Had to pay another 1200 on top of the 3000 install costs for him to replace 2 bad lifters in a row. And when I fired up the car, it was ticking like a mofo. I drove it home on the base tune provided and I just heard it ticking the whole way. Sooooo not happy. Installer simply used what was provided in the kit. No misfires and no failed lifters but, that ticking is just not acceptable. Installer was honest and said it's definitely not ideal but, there wasn't much more he could do.

So, I'm annoyed for 2 reasons. 1) The supplied kit had these fixed length pushrods. They should work and not cause ticking. 2) After the 1st failed lifter, I did mention lifter preload to my installer. He blew that off and didn't worry about it. He simply replaced the lifter. The replacement lifter failed and he replaced that one. He finished it up. Fired it up and heard the ticking, and basically said his job was done. For 4200 in total labor costs, I feel like I shouldn't have any ticking. I understand he simply used what was in the kit but, hearing that ticking shouldn't sit well with any shop. And he should have kept the car another day and made it right. Instead, now I have to make it right myself. Because I'm not paying anybody any more labor to fix this.

I'm now in search of a guide for just fixing my ticking noise, which I assume is simply caused from having too long of pushrods. I don't even want to drive it, at this point because I fear a lifter going out from the ticking, or causing some other type of damage. I am not a happy camper at this point. With the money spent on this build thus far, I should be driving it with a permagrin.

[oldman]

If it ain't Johnson lifters you are wasting your time. You need to verify that.
If it ain't installed with the proper lash it is NOT going to work
Most aftermarket cams come have an increased fuel lobe, this also has a lash cap, the "standard" cap will shove the pump through the hood (just kidding...) but it will blow the pump clean off the valley.
The trunions need to be upgraded
The front cam phaser needs to be locked and if not the valves will kiss the piston and that will also be instant failure somewhere in the the valvetrain. If this is not done you have already history your valves and probably the rest of the valvetain as well (all valves, trunions, pushrods and lifters and maybe more).

If the installer does not know all of the above...he is not "reputable".

What some shops do is run the LS7 lifter which has buku play and will work as a drop-in with standard length pushrods. However, the lifter is made for gentle ramps under .600 lift (GM hot cam), and some mild valve springs 120ish seat beehives, infact the hotcam (goes mid-10s) take plain everyday stock valve springs.

[Darth Martel]

At this point, I think I need to tear into it and verify what was done. Which is a complete f'n shame. I know everything you mentioned above was included in the kit. What I don't know is if it was all installed and installed properly. And that's the mother about this is, I've never used the guy before but, he's trusted by a good friend that vouched for him. He's worked on his vette. He may have done everything right except done any preload checks. My understanding is that he assumed the pushrods were appropriate and just installed everything as direct replacement and made no adjustments. I need to verify that with him. I'll contact him with these specific questions and update with his answers.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate the help.

[Darth Martel]

I think I have one more question...

Is the source of the ticking definitely caused by the pushrods being too long? Or is it possible the ticking can be fixed with an adjustment of something?

[6spdhyperblue]

Improper lash certainly causes ticking

[BlackbeastSS2]

I will put my 2 cents in. In my 2016 SS I had a ticking noise on my LT1 and was sure it was a lifter. Side note, I was never happy with my tuner. I took my car to another tuner and he heard the noise too. After he tuned the car the noise was gone and had better power. Not saying this is your problem but it just might be, because my noise was coming from one area near or between the number 8 & 6. Maybe just a temporary stuck lifter, don’t know.

Hopefully you get it fixed sooner then later.