[Frank237]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

No proof whatsoever that C8 was delayed 6 months for electrical problems. Someone on a forum stating it and some media outlets running with it doesn't make it true.

Similar to the BS that the C8's were busting rear windows from the frame/body flexing from the torque. TOTALLY FALSE as per the design manager.

I think the Electrical issues are the same. They have been on this design for FIVE years. With over two years with test mules. This isn't your normal , next generation upgrade.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Johnman

The C8 Vette obviously has even worse rear quarter/rear visibility than the 6th gen Camaro, but I bet no one ever complains about it.

I'm one of the biggest advocates of improved visibility in the Camaro.

The Corvette (all of them) is a sports car. I'm more than willing to make trade offs like that for a sports car.

The Camaro, regardless of GM marketing (which calls it BOTH a Muscle Car AND a Sports Car to try and hit any base they can) is a sporty coupe and it needs to be a great coupe first and a performance car second. That's what I've said well before the Gen6 was ever introduced. Be a great coupe first. And it's not a great coupe. It's just the greatest Camaro ever made, but still a lousy coupe. And it's selling slower than the Fiat.

So yes, a true Sports Car and now pretty much a Super Car gets a pass from me for rearward visibility, and I haven't sat in one let alone driven one.

[Booher]

Dont the have a camera on the wing just for limited rear view?

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm one of the biggest advocates of improved visibility in the Camaro.

The Corvette (all of them) is a sports car. I'm more than willing to make trade offs like that for a sports car.

The Camaro, regardless of GM marketing (which calls it BOTH a Muscle Car AND a Sports Car to try and hit any base they can) is a sporty coupe and it needs to be a great coupe first and a performance car second. That's what I've said well before the Gen6 was ever introduced. Be a great coupe first. And it's not a great coupe. It's just the greatest Camaro ever made, but still a lousy coupe. And it's selling slower than the Fiat.

So yes, a true Sports Car and now pretty much a Super Car gets a pass from me for rearward visibility, and I haven't sat in one let alone driven one.

Makes sense to me

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm one of the biggest advocates of improved visibility in the Camaro.

The Corvette (all of them) is a sports car. I'm more than willing to make trade offs like that for a sports car.

The Camaro, regardless of GM marketing (which calls it BOTH a Muscle Car AND a Sports Car to try and hit any base they can) is a sporty coupe and it needs to be a great coupe first and a performance car second. That's what I've said well before the Gen6 was ever introduced. Be a great coupe first. And it's not a great coupe. It's just the greatest Camaro ever made, but still a lousy coupe. And it's selling slower than the Fiat.

So yes, a true Sports Car and now pretty much a Super Car gets a pass from me for rearward visibility, and I haven't sat in one let alone driven one.

What makes it lousy, Number 3? Visibility, rear seat legroom and trunk opening size? These would definitely be dealbreakers on a sporty sedan like the Charger, but a coupe, I don't know... and what else is there to complain about?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

What makes it lousy, Number 3? Visibility, rear seat legroom and trunk opening size? These would definitely be dealbreakers on a sporty sedan like the Charger, but a coupe, I don't know... and what else is there to complain about?

Those are what made the greatest Camaro ever for performance. But if you wanted just an expressive sporty coupe, would you accept a smaller trunk, rear seat room that GM admitted at launch they paid no attention to and less than optimal visibility? Probably not. I think these attributes are the reason why the old Fiat outsells the tremendous Camaro.

People always interpret any critique of the car as calling their baby ugly. It’s not. IMO, the Camaro is by farrrrrrr the best looking car in the segment and until we see a ZL1/GT500 comparison, it’s the best all around performing car as well. But to keep size and mass in check, and get the best body rigidity (high trunk lift over compared to the sister ATS coupe for example) GM made trade offs the maximized performance and minimized practicality.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm one of the biggest advocates of improved visibility in the Camaro.

The Corvette (all of them) is a sports car. I'm more than willing to make trade offs like that for a sports car.

The Camaro, regardless of GM marketing (which calls it BOTH a Muscle Car AND a Sports Car to try and hit any base they can) is a sporty coupe and it needs to be a great coupe first and a performance car second. That's what I've said well before the Gen6 was ever introduced. Be a great coupe first. And it's not a great coupe. It's just the greatest Camaro ever made, but still a lousy coupe. And it's selling slower than the Fiat.

So yes, a true Sports Car and now pretty much a Super Car gets a pass from me for rearward visibility, and I haven't sat in one let alone driven one.

I am in the complete opposite camp. I LOVE what they did with the Camaro.

I am a performance guy first, and the SS 1LE is a GRAND SLAM!!!. I know I am in the minority, but to me the performance you get for the money is simply INSANE.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by gotroost

I started adding up all the goodies I would want and it was way north of the ZLE price. Can't wait to see how it really performs. Sure it's mid engine and probably quite a bit lighter, but disappointed about no FI option. I'm sure it will come but it will be pricey. Waiting on that winning lottery ticket...

The wild thing is that with the DCT and the Z51 package, the NA base C8 is being said to be only just slower than one factory FI Corvette ever - last year's ZR1, and the C8 Z51 is half the price. Can't imagine a better starting point for a new generation Corvette - or that in practice most people would even miss the FI.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Those are what made the greatest Camaro ever for performance. But if you wanted just an expressive sporty coupe, would you accept a smaller trunk, rear seat room that GM admitted at launch they paid no attention to and less than optimal visibility? Probably not. I think these attributes are the reason why the old Fiat outsells the tremendous Camaro.

People always interpret any critique of the car as calling their baby ugly. It’s not. IMO, the Camaro is by farrrrrrr the best looking car in the segment and until we see a ZL1/GT500 comparison, it’s the best all around performing car as well. But to keep size and mass in check, and get the best body rigidity (high trunk lift over compared to the sister ATS coupe for example) GM made trade offs the maximized performance and minimized practicality.

Makes sense, and I never thought for a second you were calling this baby ugly

I certainly understand these points and am actually fine with this decision by the Camaro team. The car looks and sounds absolutely badass, the performance/price ratio is insanely high, there's just the right amount of tech for my taste (well maybe a tiny little bit less)---and none of the practicality issues, real as they are, affect me enough to have leaned towards any competition. And yes, this is certainly a minority view. Interestingly, always ending up in an inadvertent, yet happy involvement with the underdog is story of my life, heh.

[90503]

There are already tons of "great coupes". In fact you can even get them with four doors!
Chevy builds Malibus, and Impalas, Cadillac builds wonderful cars that all surpass the supposed shortcomings of the Camaro.

The Camaro doesn't need to become another boring face in the crowd with other boring cars.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

There are already tons of "great coupes". In fact you can even get them with four doors!
Chevy builds Malibus, and Impalas, Cadillac builds wonderful cars that all surpass the supposed shortcomings of the Camaro.

The Camaro doesn't need to become another boring face in the crowd with other boring cars.

No it sure doesn’t. But trust me it can be awesome with a slightly bigger trunk, a better rear seat and a larger green house.

And no, a Malibu has nothing to do with a coupe. And Cadillac Only has the ATS, and they slammed the roof 2 inches on that for styling. But being off the Sam architecture, the ATS has a bigger trunk and more rear seat leg room and better visibility.

The only issue is the Camaro surviving. To survive it has to be profitable. To be profitable it has to sell. To sell it has to have p a broader audience. To reach a broader audiencevitvhas to have a broader appeal. Right now it’s a limited production car and GM doesn’t need two.