[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by 6sigma

For me it was the right package at the right price. My low option LT1 M6 was about $30k new, after all discounts and GM card credits. I think that's a great bargain.

Also, I want and need the standard all-seasons on the LT1. I think part of Camaro sales problem is the fact that any V8 car (before LT1) comes with summer only tires, which makes it a 3-season car in a lot of the US. Swapping wheels and tires seasonally or buying a new set of performance all-seasons is a hassle and expense a lot of buyers don't want. Dodge has standard performance all-seasons all the way up to Redeye, with summer-only rubber optional. I think Ford does the same with Mustang until GT350. Camaro should have performance all-seasons as standard or no cost options on all non-1LE cars.

Ford did this with the lowly Fiesta ST - performance all-seasons (good Michelin pilot A/S3+) were no cost options but not often dealer spec'd. I found mine on the lot that had them spec'd and the dealer told me they learned they couldn't sell the cars that had summer rubber (I live in the midwest). I wonder how many Camaro sales are lost because of the tires.

I do wish the LT1 tires were wider or staggered just for looks, but please keep the performance all-seasons!

No-season is pretty garbage in my experience. They are okay on a family Sedan, but on a Camaro? Never. They don't grip for crap in the summer, and they don't grip for crap in winter(with snow on the ground). Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

I spend a lot of time on West Coast of Canada and trust me, whenever it snows an inch or so, it's a gone show. Everyone just has all-season and they would be sliding everywhere and playing bumper cars.

Other than the initial purchase price of a set of rims, running summer and winter tires aren't much more expensive than a set of all-season tires since tires don't wear out when you don't use them. As for rims, if you don't care about aesthetics, a set of steelies will do perfectly fine in winter and they don't cost much.

And also, I think you are overestimating your average car owner's intelligence when it comes to tires. Trust me, there are people who will attempt to drive a car on summer tires in the snow. I have seen it.

Originally Posted by iPODFAN11

Here is truly the biggest difference. Warranty.

The SS/1LE/ZL1/ZLE are backed under GM warranty for track use assuming the car is stock. Something breaks while on the track and your car is stock? Warrantied.

The LT1 model does NOT benefit from this.

Not that anyone would want to track a car with 245-wide all-season tires. IMO LT1 is great if you just want a V8 DD without hitting the track.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

No-season is pretty garbage in my experience. They are okay on a family Sedan, but on a Camaro? Never. They don't grip for crap in the summer, and they don't grip for crap in winter(with snow on the ground). Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

I spend a lot of time on West Coast of Canada and trust me, whenever it snows an inch or so, it's a gone show. Everyone just has all-season and they would be sliding everywhere and playing bumper cars.

Other than the initial purchase price of a set of rims, running summer and winter tires aren't much more expensive than a set of all-season tires since tires don't wear out when you don't use them. As for rims, if you don't care about aesthetics, a set of steelies will do perfectly fine in winter and they don't cost much.

And also, I think you are overestimating your average car owner's intelligence when it comes to tires. Trust me, there are people who will attempt to drive a car on summer tires in the snow. I have seen it.



Not that anyone would want to track a car with 245-wide all-season tires. IMO LT1 is great if you just want a V8 DD without hitting the track.

OEM SS 1LE rims run about $3,000. Throw in the tires and that's another $1,000. So $4,000 upfront plus the hassle of swapping them out twice a year and storing them year round.

If I were tracking my car I would go that route with all seasons as DD and OEM for the track. Since I'm not tracking it I prefer going with all seasons.

On the street the OEM tires will give you an edge, if it's warm and dry. Under any other circumstance, cold, wet, or worse, cold AND wet, the OEM tires will put you at a distinct disadvantage relative to all seasons.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by RyanR623

I think you meant the scat pack. The LT1 will destroy an R/T. The LT1 has 80 more horspower and is 450lbs lighter.

I meant the V8 pony cars that compete with the price of the LT1 which is the base v8 of all 3. Agreed the Camaro is the most attractive of the three as to performance, but they all are fun to own. The Challenger is the best car, but agreed it is too heavy. The GT A10 may be the fastest by a little in the 1/4. The LT1 with stock tires on all will torch the other 2 on a race track. IMO.

Callenger R/T - $34,495

Mustang GT - $$35,630

Camaro LT1 - $34,995

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

OEM SS 1LE rims run about $3,000. Throw in the tires and that's another $1,000. So $4,000 upfront plus the hassle of swapping them out twice a year and storing them year round.

If I were tracking my car I would go that route with all seasons as DD and OEM for the track. Since I'm not tracking it I prefer going with all seasons.

On the street the OEM tires will give you an edge, if it's warm and dry. Under any other circumstance, cold, wet, or worse, cold AND wet, the OEM tires will put you at a distinct disadvantage relative to all seasons.

No one said you have to buy OEM rims. $3000 is about right for forged rims in that size. I am sure there are good aftermarket rims in that size that don't cost as much. For an LT1(which is the trim in the discussion of the thread), I would be curious to see if there are steelies in that size or the non-RS LT Camaro size(18-inch). Again, they don't look pretty, but if you are looking for optimized winter grip on the cheap, they work.

Swapping rims isn't an extra hassle. You are supposed to rotate your tires anyway if you have only one set of tires. As for storage, there are ways to make it work even if you live in an apartment.

If it's not hard-driven all the time then yeah, go all-season as long as it doesn't snow, but then that kinda brings up the question of why a V8. I have driven my SS 1LE in the rain. As long as you have common sense and don't hit puddles at high speeds, they are fine. I am not racing in the rain anyway. LT1 naturally has an advantage here due to the narrower tires having better traction in the rain and they are less prone to hydroplaning.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to if it snows or not. If it snows, all-season aren't gonna do you much favour.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

No-season is pretty garbage in my experience. They are okay on a family Sedan, but on a Camaro? Never. They don't grip for crap in the summer, and they don't grip for crap in winter(with snow on the ground). Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

Agreed but not a bad start on a winter setup rather than summers. There are winter tires that would be a better performance winter choice. But no wider than 245s. As you mentioned. ^ for snow a skinnier tire is the plan. The F/R is about 54/46 weight distribution which isn't too bad for a front engined V8.

As to summer performance tires in the winter I had to drive with my wife in my Nissan 300ZX in a light snow. We would never get home. I had to get her to curl up way in the back scrunched under the hatch. Her 125 pounds there got us home. I had to sleep in the garage. Lesson learned.

[L8Apex]

I keep my summer tires on and just use my POS Ford Explorer in bad or cold weather

[RyanR623]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I meant the V8 pony cars that compete with the price of the LT1 which is the base v8 of all 3. Agreed the Camaro is the most attractive of the three as to performance, but they all are fun to own. The Challenger is the best car, but agreed it is too heavy. The GT A10 may be the fastest by a little in the 1/4. The LT1 with stock tires on all will torch the other 2 on a race track. IMO.

Callenger R/T - $34,495

Mustang GT - $$35,630

Camaro LT1 - $34,995

The challenger is the best how? It's design is over a decade old, the chassis is complete garbage, it's heavy and handles like a boat, and has less horsepower than the other two?

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Camaro LT Model compared to the SSes:

What are the differences?

First from Chevy's vantage point every SS (and of course the ZL1s)are all intended to be level 2 trackable cars. If you own an SS you have a very capable track car. Of course few take advantage of that, but still it is cool you could track your Camaro seriously if you decided to learn those skills.

The 2020 LT1 is a bit different in that it was meant to be a V8 mostly stripper to compete with the base Mustang 5.0 and R/T Challenger. Think Mustang Fox body LX 5.0 the most famous of this category, or the Firebird Formula.

To start the comparison what the LT1 shares with the SS:

• One of the best performance platforms in the world, the GM Alpha platform.
• The LT1 engine, differential, and transmissions including one of the best manual transmissions in the world, the Tremec TR-6060.
• The vented hood
• The front Brembo brakes
• The SS base performance suspension
• Oil cooler
• 1SS base interior and standard items.
• 20" wheels and tires

Next the things all SSes have the LT1 does not:

• DIfferential cooler
• Transmission cooler (except A10 LT1s have this cooler)
• Rear Brembos
• The 2 outboard small additional engine radiators
• Summer tires
• Wider rear rims - The LT1 has a square tire/wheel setup that can be rotated, the SS setup is staggered.
• Track tow bar
• Rear spoiler
• Magnetic ride control option.
• More weight
• Different front fascia
• Track Mode
• 8 inch screen (unless you opt for the Bose on the LT1)
• If you order painted calipers, the smaller rear one is painted
• More digital speedometer nacelle
• 9.5" wide rear wheels
• 1LE option
• Summer Performance Tires
• Higher MPH speed limiter (due to standard performance tires)

GMs offical base weight Comparison

WEIGHTS & CAPACITIES

COUPE CONVERTIBLE
Base Curb Weight
(lb. / kg):
3619 / 1642 – LT1 manual
3681 / 1670 – LT1 automatic
3685 / 1672 – 1SS manual
3747 / 1700 – 1SS automatic
3754 / 1703 – 1SS 1LE
3696 / 1677 – 2SS manual
3757 / 1704 – 2SS automatic
3762 / 1706 – 2SS 1LE

3865 / 1753 – LT1 manual
3927 / 1781 – LT1 automatic
3932 / 1784 – 1SS manual
3993 / 1811 – 1SS automatic
3937 / 1786 – 2SS manual
3999 / 1814 – 2SS automatic

LT1:

SS:

Also the SS has a better looing grill. 1LT looks like a grinning Jacko-Lantern.

[Azerlazer26]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

When I ordered the expensive Bose (technology) LT1 Option I thought I might get the SS speedo. I like having oil pressure all the time. But all you get is the wider screen and Bose. However this Bose has better sound than my last 2 Bose equipped Camaros. I don't know if it is the Bose part or a better amp/head unit.

To my understanding, the Bose system did get some minor improvements for the 2019+ cars. I don’t exactly know off the top of my head what was improved but, if I find any information I’ll update this post.

[6sigma]

Performance all-season tires are much less of a compromise than they used to be. There is a Youtube video I'm too lazy to find that tested same size summer, all-season, and winter rated tires on dry, cold, wet and snowy roads. Performance all-seasons gave up very little to summer-only tires in the dry but gained a huge advantage in the cold and wet over the summer tires. This is street driving on same size tires, not comparing track driving where max grip 305 section R compounds make a big difference.

I'm not suggesting all-season tires are a good choice for the track, but they are a much better choice for a street driven car in any area that sees sub-freezing temps. The LT1 is intended to be a street car first, not a track car, so good call with the standard all-seasons IMO.

I too have seen people trying to drive on summer only tires in the cold and wet - including many Camaros! The general car buying public maybe doesn't think about it, but I have to believe that is the reason Dodge and Ford offer perf all-seasons on their pony cars all the way up to 700+ hp Redeyes.

[FarmerFran]

The AS3+ could could barley hold traction from my tuned ecoboost mustang with 355s tires. Sure they were a lot better than the stock pzero but not so sure on 455/455 LT1

[Bumbleboy92]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

The LT1 gauge cluster is this:

Attachment 1035177

Both the 1SS and 2SS and all other higher end Camaro trims use this:

Attachment 1035178

Even though it’s supposed to be a base stripper, I feel there should at least be an option for auxiliary gauges. It’s a V8. Having only a fuel and temperature gauge doesn’t seem quite right. On the 5th gen you could get the 4 pod console gauges that were standard on the 2SS as an accessory even on the most basic 1SS.

The smaller cluster still has the ability to see the same as the enhanced cluster but it’s not ideal where you can only see one piece of information at a time on the screen.

For someone that either doesn’t care much for warranty or is out of warranty, there’s a thread here of swapping the clusters. It requires being sent out to WhiteAutoMedia. I don’t know if they’ve updated the page for LT1 but they state if you have the 7” and do their upgrade you don’t get the music, navigation or phone pages on the cluster. But if you have the 8” it operates like OEM fully.

I’ve been checking in on it every once and a while, I have the 7” and for 2016 if I were to do that I’d lose my media controls on the steering wheel which I really don’t want to lose

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

I keep my summer tires on and just use my POS Ford Explorer in bad or cold weather

Touche! I have an old AWD Rav4.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by RyanR623

The challenger is the best how? It's design is over a decade old, the chassis is complete garbage, it's heavy and handles like a boat, and has less horsepower than the other two?

I mean it is the best car with room for 4 and still with a street presence. They are big and clumsy, but still fun to drive anywhere except on a race track. I have driven a number of them but never a Hellcat.

The way I see it:
The Challenger is a sporty CAR
The mustang is a Sporty Car.
The Camaro is a Sports car.

All fun to own and drive. No losers.