[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

How did they compare to OEM pads? I'm wondering if you somehow didn't get ST43s by accident.



Compared to stock pads in my experience the ST43s allow for up to ~.25 G increase of decel and had zero fade issues at Sebring with them. I was able to turn lap after lap with the ST43s where stock was on the floor after one lap(maxed the brake bar on the PDR too )



Ofcourse driving style/preferences will be different person to person but just curious.

Not by accident, but rather by a member's recommendation, that they were the best thing since sliced bread

Comparing to stockers which are much more progressive and conducive to carrying brakes deep into a corner and otherwise "pointing" the car in, they are more like an on/off switch to me. They also put out a lot more heat vs stockers, which is evidenced by cooked calipers and boiled sub SRF fluids. And whatever other parts that are sensitive to heat: rotors, wheel hubs, etc.

Decel rates are surely greater vs stockers, but at the end it is the tires that slow down/stop any car. And sure as heck i can put the car on its nose with stockers and i am yet to experience fade from them, even at brake challenging venues that dont afford much cooling between hard braking zones.

Bottom line, pads are a bit like a personal underwear preference. Wear what makes ya happy. Or fast in this case But many pro teams favour low to mid torque pads (even on full slicks vs street tires that most of us run) because of heat management and what they use the brakes for (which is not just for slowing the car down). Any pro will tell ya, that how one applies the brakes, how one trailbrakes and how one releases the brakes to keep the car balanced is an absolute key to fast pace. Any pro will also tell ya this is the most difficult skill to learn - bar none. The higher the torque the more difficult it is to brake properly.

Perhaps the issue is my skill level, but i could not make ST43 work in any other fashion than on/off switch (by and large) as they were extremely grabby on initial application and their release modulation was almost non existent (which was a big problem for me).

In any case, this was my experience at 3 different venues. Others may love them and that's perfectly fine.
We are all different Cheers!

[Mountain]

Here, in Michigan, some of the tracks have opened up. I was able to run an event at Gingerman this past weekend. I have a lot of experience with the OE Ferodo "DS Performance"/HP 1000/1 pads at this track and have "jumped up" to the Ferodo DS2500 pads. There have been some people calling the OE pads as being the DS2500 pads, which is understanble since they are very similar (to which I can attest to), but they are not the same...

I decided to jump to the DS2500 as I have been pretty happy with the OE pads for a street/track pad - it performs fine* on the street and does great at most tracks, all while not dusting anything crazy - with whatever dust being easy to clean off the wheels. Since my rear OE pads were about ready to toss and my fronts (which I've already replaced once) due in the not-too-distance-future, I decided to just replace the OE setup with DS2500 since I was able to find the complete set for front/rear only slightly more expensive than OE. For brake-intensive tracks, I will get a dedicated set of DS1.11's.

*"Fine" but if, in my opinion, you upgrade to a braided or CF brake hose the brake experience is perfect - they remove a touch of expansion compliance, but enough to provide a nice, little increase in pedal feel. I can confirm, a lot of the vagueness in the brake experience with these Camaros comes from the OE Ferodo pads in that they have some compression to them.

This is what I can say about the DS2500 vs. the OE Ferodo's:
-The DS2500 is essentially the "race" version of the OE Ferodo.
-The compound characteristics are very similar, as far as modulation and friction characteristic goes over temperature, between the two pads.
-The DS2500 compound definitely compresses less, so it has a much better brake feel than the OE Ferodo's, bed-in or not and cold or hot.
-The DS2500 has a noticeably stronger bite than the OE Ferodo at high temperature.
-The DS2500 has a slightly higher, but noticeable, temperature threshold. The OE Ferodo drops off much, much quicker as you approach the pad's temperature threshold.
-The DS2500 is 1mm thicker in pad material compared to the OE Ferodo.

Below is the graphical comparison between the Ferodo pads, to which I made a little critique to the "Fade" of the DS2500.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Here, in Michigan, some of the tracks have opened up. I was able to run an event at Gingerman this past weekend. I have a lot of experience with the OE Ferodo "DS Performance"/HP 1000/1 pads at this track and have "jumped up" to the Ferodo DS2500 pads. There have been some people calling the OE pads as being the DS2500 pads, which is understanble since they are very similar (to which I can attest to), but they are not the same...

I decided to jump to the DS2500 as I have been pretty happy with the OE pads for a street/track pad - it performs fine* on the street and does great at most tracks, all while not dusting anything crazy - with whatever dust being easy to clean off the wheels. Since my rear OE pads were about ready to toss and my fronts (which I've already replaced once) due in the not-too-distance-future, I decided to just replace the OE setup with DS2500 since I was able to find the complete set for front/rear only slightly more expensive than OE. For brake-intensive tracks, I will get a dedicated set of DS1.11's.

*"Fine" but if, in my opinion, you upgrade to a braided or CF brake hose the brake experience is perfect - they remove a touch of expansion compliance, but enough to provide a nice, little increase in pedal feel. I can confirm, a lot of the vagueness in the brake experience with these Camaros comes from the OE Ferodo pads in that they have some compression to them.

This is what I can say about the DS2500 vs. the OE Ferodo's:
-The DS2500 is essentially the "race" version of the OE Ferodo.
-The compound characteristics are very similar, as far as modulation and friction characteristic goes over temperature, between the two pads.
-The DS2500 compound definitely compresses less, so it has a much better brake feel than the OE Ferodo's, bed-in or not and cold or hot.
-The DS2500 has a noticeably stronger bite than the OE Ferodo at high temperature.
-The DS2500 has a slightly higher, but noticeable, temperature threshold. The OE Ferodo drops off much, much quicker as you approach the pad's temperature threshold.
-The DS2500 is 1mm thicker in pad material compared to the OE Ferodo.

Below is the graphical comparison between the Ferodo pads, to which I made a little critique to the "Fade" of the DS2500.

Great analysis - thanks! Where did ya find 2500s at just slightly more over OEMs? I did want to try them, but the price was almost double from what I recall and hence not worth the experiment Cheers!

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Great analysis - thanks! Where did ya find 2500s at just slightly more over OEMs? I did want to try them, but the price was almost double from what I recall and hence not worth the experiment Cheers!

Check out StranoParts.
http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbym...387&ModelID=49

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Check out StranoParts.
http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbym...387&ModelID=49

Ahhh...Mr Strano
Actually cheaper than stockers from Rockauto!
Congrats on your new PB btw! Must feel real nice!!!

[Mountain]

Something I forget to mention about the DS2500 experience I had: At Gingerman, braking into turn 11, the surface gets very mildly bumpy. With the DS2500, I was able to experience some very brief brake lock-up. With the OE Ferodo pads this never happened, not even the suggestion it could ever occur. I need to dig into the data to verify this, but I definitely felt the sorts.

[MatthewAMEL]

I have been so impressed with the OEM pad. But definitely starting to run up against fade at the end of sessions in June/July/August in Florida. I am going to give the DS2500's a try.


I used to be a huge HAWK fan, but the last set of DTC60's I ran ate the finish off my OEM wheels in about 4 events.


KNS Brakes has the DS2500 for the same price as Sam.


https://knsbrakes.com/c/car-series/4...500+Brake+Pads

[RUQWIKR]

As I mentioned elsewhere: FYI - DS2500 compound is what the C6Z (steel) has for OEM. They’re a nice compound that’s streetable with decent heat / Mu range and easy on rotors. They’ll probably wear more quickly on these heavy cars than DS1.11’s but cost a lot less.

The 2500’s are nice but not sure worth two to three times the cost of take off HP1000 OEM’s I’ve got a stash of.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

As I mentioned elsewhere: 1.FYI - DS2500 compound is what the C6Z (steel) has for OEM. They’re a nice compound that’s streetable with decent heat / Mu range and easy on rotors. They’ll probably wear more quickly on these heavy cars than DS1.11’s but cost a lot less.

2. The 2500’s are nice but not sure worth two to three times the cost of take off HP1000 OEM’s I’ve got a stash of.

1. Are you sure the OE pad for the C6Z is the DS2500? The reason I ask is because it seems, from what I've been finding, GM has been using the same Ferodo compound on all of their high performance variants (5th Gen Camaro ZL1-SS 1LE, CTS-V, SS, C7, 6th Gen Camaro SS-SS 1LE-ZL1-ZL1 1LE, etc). That compound is the HP 1000/1, which is the Brembo name, but the Ferodo name is "DS Performance".

2. If you read my review, you will see that I am comparing to the OE HP1000/1 pads ("DS Peformance"). If the DS2500=HP 1000/1 pad, it would've been evident as they would have performed exactly the same, in which to me they did not... Have you run DS2500 against the HP1000/1? The DS2500 is not "two to three times the cost" of even new OE pads. My review is for the people who like the OE pad, but want a little bit more for just a slight price over the OE pads new.

[RUQWIKR]

Re-read my comments on cost: I’ve been paying $70-100 set of take off ZL1 fronts and much much less for take off ZL1 rears. DS2500’s in J6H / ZL1 size are $160-$177 rears (FCP1348H) vs. $69-$90 going rate for stock new, and fronts $275-$310 (FCP5030H) vs. $190-$270 I see new stock ones at for that brake system. Still, if comparing new prices, $200 +/- more for the DS2500’s in ZL1 sizes vs. stock NEW HP1000’s is not a bad way to go. With two sons tracking the car along with me, we go through pads (fronts especially) all the time. Take offs with some miles are kind of bedded already and have little green pad fade when I throw them on.

Another nice thing about DS2500’s is they seem nicely compatible to the HP1000 compound material and don’t require cleaning the transfer layer off going either way between the two.

On the C6Z compound, I was told that by a Ferodo engineer and a Brembo engineer as well.

[TrackClub]

Dont know where these engineers got their info from, but based on what folks have been selling on Corvette Forum as OEM C7 Z06 pads they are HP1000 not DS2500. See link below to 2016 and 2017 C7 Z06.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rake-pads.html

[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Dont know where these engineers got their info from, but based on what folks have been selling on Corvette Forum as OEM C7 Z06 pads they are HP1000 not DS2500. See link below to 2016 and 2017 C7 Z06.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rake-pads.html

C6Z pucks not C7 as per my post. Steel C7’s are HP1000.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

C6Z pucks not C7 as per my post. Steel C7’s are HP1000.

Haha got it
Completely confused C6 with C7.
MY BAD!!!

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

Re-read my comments on cost: I’ve been paying $70-100 set of take off ZL1 fronts and much much less for take off ZL1 rears. DS2500’s in J6H / ZL1 size are $160-$177 rears (FCP1348H) vs. $69-$90 going rate for stock new, and fronts $275-$310 (FCP5030H) vs. $190-$270 I see new stock ones at for that brake system. Still, if comparing new prices, $200 +/- more for the DS2500’s in ZL1 sizes vs. stock NEW HP1000’s is not a bad way to go. With two sons tracking the car along with me, we go through pads (fronts especially) all the time. Take offs with some miles are kind of bedded already and have little green pad fade when I throw them on.

Another nice thing about DS2500’s is they seem nicely compatible to the HP1000 compound material and don’t require cleaning the transfer layer off going either way between the two.

On the C6Z compound, I was told that by a Ferodo engineer and a Brembo engineer as well.

I hear you - you are talking about "take-off" OE pads... Any "used pad" is going to be a cheaper route... I see your point but it only applies if the OE pad fits your bill and nothing more...

For your application, multiple drivers, sure the DS2500 doesn't make sense as you are now looking at needing to buy pads constantly - at that point you either need a cheap pad that just works or an expensive pad that lasts

I have contacted Ferodo, and I have seen them comment on this in the past. HP1000/1 Brembo = DS Performance Ferodo. DS2500 is an upgrade to the HP1000/1, not a very significant one, but it is. Exactly what I found in review.