[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

They already tried that with Gen 6.

Smaller car which also introduced the turbo 4 into the lineup

But with the 7th gen the look of the 5th gen will be totally gone and the smaller turbo motors i meant would be more like 400 to 600 HP Hybrids . The 6th gen Camaro shown a huge shift from Muscle to Sport car while keeping a vintage Camaro shape , it may be time in its evolution to take a huge step forward in design. Kinda of like standing up straight and stop dragging its knuckles.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Number 3

If it builds the brand and broadens the appeal I'm all for it. But I've long given up on what Millenials and Gen Z want other than Uber and autonomous vehicles.

If a company gives up on 2 current generations they most certainly will not survive the 3rd.

Camaro is an exceptional product.

Quality control is another story, but... hailing short term profits over longevity, well, you know where I stand on this issue. But keep those pom-poms pumping.

1. Chevrolet advertising is non-existent for the Camaro (see those threads I posted).

2. The 2 generations you are deciding to ignore, can be won over easily with... ADVERTISING.

I will not repeat myself, but anyone interested in the actual numbers, breakdown of consumers, etc. see those threads I posted earlier in this thread.

[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

If a company gives up on 2 current generations they most certainly will not survive the 3rd.

Camaro is an exceptional product.

Quality control is another story, but... hailing short term profits over longevity, well, you know where I stand on this issue. But keep those pom-poms pumping.

1. Chevrolet advertising is non-existent for the Camaro (see those threads I posted).

2. The 2 generations you are deciding to ignore, can be won over easily with... ADVERTISING.

I will not repeat myself, but anyone interested in the actual numbers, breakdown of consumers, etc. see those threads I posted earlier in this thread.

So in other words, Camaro is dead. Oh well, guess I'll buy a Challenger next go 'round.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

If a company gives up on 2 current generations they most certainly will not survive the 3rd.

Camaro is an exceptional product.

Quality control is another story, but... hailing short term profits over longevity, well, you know where I stand on this issue. But keep those pom-poms pumping.

1. Chevrolet advertising is non-existent for the Camaro (see those threads I posted).

2. The 2 generations you are deciding to ignore, can be won over easily with... ADVERTISING.

I will not repeat myself, but anyone interested in the actual numbers, breakdown of consumers, etc. see those threads I posted earlier in this thread.

How many commercials have you seen for Tesla ? Millennials really like the cars and love Elon Musk . All the advertising you need for Millennials and especially Gen Z is Google , and sadly they see these Camaros today as a rotary dial phone . Chevy don't need more advertising ,they need a Camaro that is built for the 21st century. Make it and they will sell.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

How many commercials have you seen for Tesla ? Millennials really like the cars and love Elon Musk . All the advertising you need for Millennials and especially Gen Z is Google , and sadly they see these Camaros today as a rotary dial phone . Chevy don't need more advertising ,they need a Camaro that is built for the 21st century. Make it and they will sell.

Whose 21 st century? Not the one that anyone I know wants. The "millennials" I know don't like anything about Elon Musk. They look at him as nothing more than an eccentric pothead that got people to give him money to build crappy cars. They are more into Jeep Wangers, big trucks and Harley Davidsons. They like vehicles they can have fun with but are useful. Camaros only fit one of those. Tesla is tanking anyhow. I believe you are watching too much CNN.

[hotlap]

A recent article with a Dodge perspective that is related to the discussion here. I found it interesting that he says the these three will be the last cars to go.

These cars are all struggling. Chevy appears to be committed to a gen7 with a hatched rear and (assume) conventional visibility and belt line. Time will tell if there will be a market. Ford and Dodge’s commitment to a next gen seems less certain to me.

Sales slip for these iconic American cars: Are millennials to blame?
Eric D. Lawrence, Detroit Free Press Sept. 7, 2018

The U.S. auto sales numbers for August appeared almost shocking for a couple of iconic cars — Dodge Challenger down 26 percent from August 2017, Dodge Charger down 45 percent.

The numbers, out just after Labor Day, appeared to bolster reports suggesting that declining performance car sales might be imperiling "a nostalgic, high-horsepower cruising culture that dates to before the 1950s."

Could the end really be at hand for the American muscle car — and are millennials to blame?

Not exactly, although muscle cars are certainly not immune to the changing tastes that have elevated trucks and SUVs over cars in the minds of many consumers, according to several industry watchers.

The four vehicles that fit the muscle car category most directly — the Challenger and Charger, the Ford Mustang and the Chevrolet Camaro — have, in some cases, been viewed as more stable than others in the overall passenger car market, which seems to find a new, lower floor by the month. Purists might note that the Mustang and Camaro are really pony cars, but that's a discussion for another story.

"Performance cars are going to be affected by the downturn in cars in general and the shift over to crossovers, but because these cars are such iconic products they’re always going to have some kind of market above and beyond your regular family sedan," said Sam Fiorani, vice president of global vehicle forecasting at Pennsylvania-based AutoForecast Solutions. "These vehicles will be the last cars to go as we shift toward SUVs and trucks. Sedans will go, but these will be the last of a dying breed."

A one-month snapshot for any given vehicle is also a very incomplete picture, failing to account for any number of factors, including inconsistent fleet sale orders and the seasonal nature of performance car purchases. Fiat Chrysler's Steve Beahm, who oversees Dodge and other passenger car brands in North America, noted that Challenger and Charger retail sales numbers, which represent higher profits than fleet sales, such as to police agencies, are actually up 1 percent for the year through August.

Beahm said muscle cars are far from dead, at least for Dodge.

"I'm not sitting in my office crying about, 'Hey, I don’t have any customers.' I'm actually pretty happy with the performance that Dodge has had in general for this calendar year," Beahm said.

Beahm noted the popularity of the recent Roadkill Nights Powered by Dodge, which drew 44,000 people to the M1 Concourse in Pontiac the weekend prior to the Woodward Dream Cruise. The event is unique in its promise of legal street drag racing on Woodward Avenue, and also allows attendees to experience a high-powered ride in a Dodge Charger or Challenger driven by a professional driver.

John McElroy, an expert on the auto industry and host of “Autoline,” said Fiat Chrysler, in particular, has employed a "brilliant" strategy regarding its muscle cars. The Charger was reintroduced for 2006 and the Challenger SRT version was launched in 2009, but FCA has added enough spice through special horsepower offerings in the guise of the Hellcat and Demon to keep the vehicles fresh. In June, the company announced a 797-horsepower 2019 Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye.

Updates are ahead

“Any car or almost every car sees sales drop off the deeper it gets into its life cycle, and these are vehicles that should have been replaced already and by doing things like the … Demon and Hellcat, that’s kept them alive,” McElroy said. "Coming out with those models drew a tremendous amount of interest with those cars and it's helped sales of the entire lineup."

Fiorani noted that the Charger and Challenger are slated for updates early in the next decade, and that each of the automakers regularly tweak their performance car packages.

In recent years, muscle cars have declined somewhat as a share of industry sales. IHS Markit automotive analyst Thomas Libby provided a market share breakdown for the four vehicles and the Buick Cascada, which is part of a category it calls midsize sport segment.

The market share percentage stood at 2 percent in 2012 and 2013, 1.9 percent in 2014, 2.1 percent in 2015, 2 percent in 2016, 1.8 percent in 2017 and 1.7 percent through June. For the individual muscle cars for the year through August, Challenger was down 1 percent, Mustang was down just under 1 percent and Charger was down 10 percent. General Motors, which no longer releases monthly sales numbers, said Camaro was down more than 30 percent through June. Mustang did have a solid August, up 35 percent compared to the year prior.

"I don’t think it's in trouble," Libby said of muscle cars as a class, noting the relatively small volumes for these types of vehicles and their importance to the image of their automakers and brands.

The sportiness and performance of muscle cars really resonates with a portion of consumers, and Libby predicted that that would remain true.

He noted that although Ford had announced plans to stop selling most of its passenger car models in the U.S. in coming years, the Dearborn automaker intends to keep the Mustang. Jim Farley, president of Global Markets for the company, recently called the Mustang the "heart and soul of this company" in a Free Press story on the 10 millionth Mustang.

Ludicrous power still there

Some industry and brand watchers say times and tastes are changing, but it's not just a new generation rejecting muscle cars, even though millennials as a group may have other priorities than their elders. Heavier horsepower also isn't limited to muscle cars.

"Through technology, we can make horsepower where we couldn't before. Cars that aren't necessarily considered muscle cars are able to generate more horsepower than before. Look at the Tesla Model S P100D luxury sedan with (its) ludicrous mode for example," said advertising executive Robert Davidman, a partner at the Fearless Agency in New York. "Then you have baby boomers that perhaps over the last 10 years spent on muscle cars but are sort of aging out. Millennials are more into the shared economy and not into owning cars and using services like Uber and Lyft for example. They also tend to look at more environmentally friendly options when they do look at vehicles."

McElroy said one other factor could be insurance rates. "Lots of millennials" would love to have a muscle car, but they can't afford the insurance, which was one of the reasons the earlier muscle car era ended in the 1970s, he said.


https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...an/1212935002/

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Whose 21 st century? Not the one that anyone I know wants. The "millennials" I know don't like anything about Elon Musk. They look at him as nothing more than an eccentric pothead that got people to give him money to build crappy cars. They are more into Jeep Wangers, big trucks and Harley Davidsons. They like vehicles they can have fun with but are useful. Camaros only fit one of those. Tesla is tanking anyhow. I believe you are watching too much CNN.

You must live in a very different part of the world then i do , i haven't seen anyone under 50 on a Harley since the 70s. The millennials and GenZ i know are into what is going on with SpaceX and are powered by technology . They love WRXs and anything VTEC , mostly because they use them in the videos games i think . The Camaro to them is just a midlife crisis car there father buys .

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

You must live in a very different part of the world then i do , i haven't seen anyone under 50 on a Harley since the 70s. The millennials and GenZ i know are into what is going on with SpaceX and are powered by technology . They love WRXs and anything VTEC , mostly because they use them in the videos games i think . The Camaro to them is just a midlife crisis car there father buys .

Well, we hunt, fish, love guns and dirt track racing too in this "very different part of the world". Im guessing that's why our kids around here are like they are. I see your from PA too, I'm guess either within 100 miles of Philly or Wilkes- Barre/Scranton area. Lol

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Well, we hunt, fish, love guns and dirt track racing too in this "very different part of the world". Im guessing that's why our kids around here are like they are. I see your from PA too, I'm guess either within 100 miles of Philly or Wilkes- Barre/Scranton area. Lol

Yeah i'm within 40 miles west of Philly , great fishing and hunting and a short drive to Maple grove ,Williams grove ,Grandview, Pocono and Dover . Every type of racing and some of the best back road driving there is ,except for the occasional horse and buggy.

[protovack]

There are always people predicting "doom and gloom" or how the performance car is going away. It gets page views to say things like that, because people see the headline and click based on fear--"oh no, is my favorite type of car going away?"

Guess what its not going away. People were saying that back in the 70's too. As long as there have been cars, there have been race cars. And there will always be performance/race oriented cars. The tech may change but people will always like going fast around corners, whether its in planes, cars, bikes, roller coasters, whatever.

And since it is not possible for most people to have a dedicated race car at home, there will ALWAYS be a market for cars that feature modern safety and convenience features in addition to high performance. Always.

And tech comes in waves that don't always last. Remember "compact florescent bulbs"? Touted as "the future" and within a few short years almost every single light bulb was switched out to a compact florescent. Fast forward to today, and it turns out we brought an even better technology to market--LED. And now people are finding themselves with boxes full of CFL bulbs that are outdated and inefficient compared to the new LEDs.

The same thing could happen with electric cars. Everyone converts over and then as soon as it started, it could be over. Algae produced diesel could come back and wipe out the entire electric car market, and there could be entire warehouses full of heavy, complicated batteries just sitting there needing to be dealt with, meanwhile a brand new technology that is better completely supercedes it.

This is how technology and human ingenuity works. The status quo is periodically disrupted and the entire landscape changes within a short time, ushering in the next era of whatever it happens to be. And as we've seen, there can be stops along the way that SEEM like real change, but really just a placeholder for the next truly big idea. Electric vehicles, to me, have the feel of being a placeholder. I could be wrong, but that's just how it feels to me.

[SecondZ28]

Advertising doesn't have to be just commercials.

GM dropped sponsorship of Woodward which let Ford come in and scoop it up.

Dodge came out with Roadkill Nights a few years back to have a big presence.

GM is content with their Performance display.

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The millennials and GenZ i know are into what is going on with SpaceX and are powered by technology.

Not all

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

If a company gives up on 2 current generations they most certainly will not survive the 3rd.

Camaro is an exceptional product.

Quality control is another story, but... hailing short term profits over longevity, well, you know where I stand on this issue. But keep those pom-poms pumping.

1. Chevrolet advertising is non-existent for the Camaro (see those threads I posted).

2. The 2 generations you are deciding to ignore, can be won over easily with... ADVERTISING.

I will not repeat myself, but anyone interested in the actual numbers, breakdown of consumers, etc. see those threads I posted earlier in this thread.

So you are simply saying that all the knowledge and experience within GM is bogus and worth nothing and that if they would simply advertise on TV that would fix everything? You think GM is not smart enough to grasp what television advertising does and does not do? Sorry, unless you are secretly a GM employee that knows better and has been told by Senior Leadership to stand down (and is smart enough to not disclose that), I have to trust the people I know at GM. There have been almost no Corvette ads and it plays out exactly as GM expects. I can't see how Camaro is any different.


Sorry, I value your opinion, but I am just to close to people in Marketing at GM and I know they know their Sh*t.

[maraging]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry, I value your opinion, but I am just to close to people in Marketing at GM and I know they know their Sh*t.

Can you tell them to stop the "real people" commercials? They make me want to not buy anything from them.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...llenger-muscle

I almost feel sorry for Al O. He is quoted as saying Camaro is pinning it's hope for resurgent Camaro sales on a "ground-swell" of enthusiasm over this
Turbo 4 1LE.....Good luck with that. Every other Camaro model received top reviews and performance numbers that never created a ground-swell of sales either....The 4cyl is supposed to now with a good price?....The 4 has been around in a Camaro now for it's third year and with a "new" lower price...

The only thing "new" now is an upgraded Turbo 4 with a higher price than all the previous ones....No question Al has built the best track cars compared to the competition, and no doubt this one also will receive rave reviews....But, unless the RS styling is a homerun, I think Al and Chevy will see same the same lack-luster sales response with this one, just like happened with all the other superior track versions he built for Camaro.