[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

An extreme case and most cars wouldn't work this situation either. Not sure what the point is here. My advice? Move.

Thats not extreme and far from worse conditions , here we can see that many times over the winter . The worst is Black Ice at 4am and second would be freezing rain anytime, a nice packed snow is not that bad . My Camaro goes away in October comes out in April ,i do like your advice and believe me it crosses my mind every winter .

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I'm not saying it can't be done I'm saying it would be stupid . I see it every winter here with cars blocking roads up , i have had a usual 20 minute trip turn into 3 hours because people can't make a smart decision on what to drive . I drive a 20 year old Blazer that loves snow and if someone slides sideways into, oh well at least it wasn't the Camaro .

Wouldn't call it stupid at all, again, so long as you put the right equipment on it. If you're trying to roll through winter on the OEM summer-only tires, yes, You're a full blown idiot. I remember seeing a 5th gen in a video, I think it was Chicago, stuck in the middle of the road on the OEM Pirellis. Derp. Correct tires and it's very manageable.

Problem there is not everyone has the luxury of a 2nd vehicle so while that's an option for you or I, it's not the standard by any means.

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le;

Thats not extreme and far from worse conditions , here we can see that many times over the winter . The worst is Black Ice at 4am and second would be freezing rain anytime, a nice packed snow is not that bad . My Camaro goes away in October comes out in April ,i do like your advice and believe me it crosses my mind every winter .

With ice there's really nothing that will save you. Hang on and hope.

I fled MA finally in '13 down to eastern TN. Their biggest threat here is the ice. But the snow is laughable. Entire city shuts down over 2". And the bitter cold spell in the dead of winter is maybe 1-4 weeks long.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I guess I'm probably one of the few that would never understand the 'it's not a daily driver' argument.

Unless I need to go to Home Depot and pick up a sheet of plywood or have a family of 4 I need to cart around everyday, I can't see anything about this car that's a compromise as a daily driver for a single person, or couple, to go to work and back or putt around town.

Exactly, I can't wrap my head around why people think this way. It would also be perfect appropriate for plenty of families with a young kid, or a family with two cars. My current soon to be replaced car has a smaller trunk than a CA6. I transported a kayak on the weekend, partially in the trunk. A few weeks before that I transported a 10' section of 6x6' wood. People can make a lot of things work, but they don't. They focus on the unusual edge cases and end up owning soulless appliances.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

Wouldn't call it stupid at all, again, so long as you put the right equipment on it. If you're trying to roll through winter on the OEM summer-only tires, yes, You're a full blown idiot. I remember seeing a 5th gen in a video, I think it was Chicago, stuck in the middle of the road on the OEM Pirellis. Derp. Correct tires and it's very manageable.

Problem there is not everyone has the luxury of a 2nd vehicle so while that's an option for you or I, it's not the standard by any means.



With ice there's really nothing that will save you. Hang on and hope.

I fled MA finally in '13 down to eastern TN. Their biggest threat here is the ice. But the snow is laughable. Entire city shuts down over 2". And the bitter cold spell in the dead of winter is maybe 1-4 weeks long.

Yeah stupid may be a bit much but to me it just sounds like a nightmare . The brine they use to pre treat the roads here just eats the underside of cars up . Ate thru my brakelines on my Blazer ,bad feeling when a brake line goes . I don't look forward to winter at all.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Exactly, I can't wrap my head around why people think this way. It would also be perfect appropriate for plenty of families with a young kid, or a family with two cars. My current soon to be replaced car has a smaller trunk than a CA6. I transported a kayak on the weekend, partially in the trunk. A few weeks before that I transported a 10' section of 6x6' wood. People can make a lot of things work, but they don't. They focus on the unusual edge cases and end up owning soulless appliances.

For years I’d take the family camping in a civic. We’d haul a five man tent, canopy, cooler, chairs, small grill, firewood, food, sleeping bags and three bicycles (I’m probably missing something). At first I thought it was kind of cool we could haul all our stuff in such a small car, but eventually I decided it was no longer practical (it sucked actually) and we bought an older truck for that task. Best decision I’ve ever made.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

Thats not extreme and far from worse conditions , here we can see that many times over the winter . The worst is Black Ice at 4am and second would be freezing rain anytime, a nice packed snow is not that bad . My Camaro goes away in October comes out in April ,i do like your advice and believe me it crosses my mind every winter .

I would not deal with that year after year. I know some people love and are totally comfortable with it, but having to store my car for 5 months, and endure the bitter cold on top of that? That would be torture. I love snow, but only during a visit. Good luck.

[Cgocifer]

Maybe get some good commercials... and they wonder why the old Dodge sells better. Hmmm, way better marketing, attitude, and image which many car noobs care about.

Camaro is a better car all around than the other two, but has no brand image behind the scenes to back it up.

I also cant believe the major sales drop due to 6th gen being a grand or two more expensive. Really? People are groveling over a grand or two? Heck, when I was shopping, the camaro was cheaper than the other two at least similarly equipped especially with the new Mustang which is significantly more expensive than the pre refreshed stang.

Personally, I'm glad there aren't a butt load of cheap camaros on the road. I see 4 Mustangs to every one camaro. Feels a but more exclusive especially with a 1LE.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

Yeah stupid may be a bit much but to me it just sounds like a nightmare . The brine they use to pre treat the roads here just eats the underside of cars up . Ate thru my brakelines on my Blazer ,bad feeling when a brake line goes . I don't look forward to winter at all.

Yeah that stuff is nasty. Was in a 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird club and one of the members owned an '84 Daytona T/A and insisted on driving it in the winter, saying "I wash it every week so the salt won't do anything." Ugh.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

A road course is a standard of how every car is tested , and for good reason.
Fiat's only choice is to keep trying to up the HP and reel the people in by showing there cars doing smokey burnouts , that won't catch me i see them in a different light . Putting 700 HP in a car that exceeds its handling capabilities very quickly is senseless to me . And if people want to put there children in these cars and fill it beach chairs and coolers then get on a highway traveling at 80 MPH ,all i can say is good luck .

Haha! Yeah because doing 80 in a hellcat challenger on the highway is a death wish. You are out of your mind. These cars don't handle bad at all. Better than some worse than others. Too many "enthusiasts" believe way to much of what they read. I wonder how many of you in this very thread ever pushed any of these cars. I've owned all of the top models of the big three (well, my ZL1 that I just bought weeks ago is just a ZL1 because those canards and big wing look dumb and I don't need it to handle any better than the regular one), and all of them were great in their own way. I have to say out of any of them my GT500 is the one that would get away from you the easiest, but that isnt by going down the highway doing 80mph. Amazingly enough, even that car could manage that task safely.
It comes down to what you want in a car and how it makes you feel. It seems like many people these days want controlled power and handling so good that they don't have to fear loosing it. Maybe they were raised by helicopter parents or something. For me, I like cars the scare you and everyone in them. Trust me, if you master those types of cars you'll be a better driver. I'm a drag racer and dirt track guy. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

A road course is a standard of how every car is tested , and for good reason.
Fiat's only choice is to keep trying to up the HP and reel the people in by showing there cars doing smokey burnouts , that won't catch me i see them in a different light . Putting 700 HP in a car that exceeds its handling capabilities very quickly is senseless to me . And if people want to put there children in these cars and fill it beach chairs and coolers then get on a highway traveling at 80 MPH ,all i can say is good luck .

You make them sound worse than they really are.

Don't forget, every muscle car in the 60s and 70s had more power than the limits of their handling capabilities were designed for. Engineers had unlocked the key to horsepower in the 50s but it took another 30+ years for technology in the handling and braking to catch up to the power those cars put out. Bias ply tires, 4 wheel drum brakes (even those with front disc still were severely under-braked), leaf spring suspensions, recirculating ball steering, over-boosted power steering..... you could get into serious trouble with ALL muscle cars back then if you tried to do anything but an absolute straight line, then easy braking to slow down.

On a track and in the slalom, the Hellcat will run circles around even the best Corvettes, GTOs, and Chevelles with the highest available suspension set ups in the 60s and 70s.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Haha! Yeah because doing 80 in a hellcat challenger on the highway is a death wish. You are out of your mind. These cars don't handle bad at all. Better than some worse than others. Too many "enthusiasts" believe way to much of what they read. I wonder how many of you in this very thread ever pushed any of these cars. I've owned all of the top models of the big three (well, my ZL1 that I just bought weeks ago is just a ZL1 because those canards and big wing look dumb and I don't need it to handle any better than the regular one), and all of them were great in their own way. I have to say out of any of them my GT500 is the one that would get away from you the easiest, but that isnt by going down the highway doing 80mph. Amazingly enough, even that car could manage that task safely.
It comes down to what you want in a car and how it makes you feel. It seems like many people these days want controlled power and handling so good that they don't have to fear loosing it. Maybe they were raised by helicopter parents or something. For me, I like cars the scare you and everyone in them. Trust me, if you master those types of cars you'll be a better driver. I'm a drag racer and dirt track guy. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Exactly! Do you want the car to drive you or you drive the car? There is a reason that often in these H2H matchups that the slower car is chosen the winner. It's usually because the car requires more driver engagement, the thrill of not only testing the car's abilities but yours as well. With all these nannies, DCTs, 10-speed autos, the thrill is gone the car basically is a point and shoot platform.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by fastball

You make them sound worse than they really are.

Don't forget, every muscle car in the 60s and 70s had more power than the limits of their handling capabilities were designed for. Engineers had unlocked the key to horsepower in the 50s but it took another 30+ years for technology in the handling and braking to catch up to the power those cars put out. Bias ply tires, 4 wheel drum brakes (even those with front disc still were severely under-braked), leaf spring suspensions, recirculating ball steering, over-boosted power steering..... you could get into serious trouble with ALL muscle cars back then if you tried to do anything but an absolute straight line, then easy braking to slow down.

On a track and in the slalom, the Hellcat will run circles around even the best Corvettes, GTOs, and Chevelles with the highest available suspension set ups in the 60s and 70s.

I agree right until the last point - I would gladly put a HC up against a 1963 Corvette GrandSport

[Diesel_Mac24]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

While this is true. It amazes me how many licensed drivers have no clue how to properly position their side view mirrors.

When positioned correctly, there is NO blind spot in the Camaro. Between the rear view mirror, side view mirrors and side windows, I can see cars go from in front of me, beside me and behind me with NEVER losing sight of them.

I think the US needs a revamped DMV driving test.

Best comment in this thread. THANK YOU. The whole visibility argument is so overdone

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I'm not saying it can't be done I'm saying it would be stupid . I see it every winter here with cars blocking roads up , i have had a usual 20 minute trip turn into 3 hours because people can't make a smart decision on what to drive . I drive a 20 year old Blazer that loves snow and if someone slides sideways into, oh well at least it wasn't the Camaro .

The roads are full of rear wheel drive pick up trucks, coupes and sedans and they all manage. A Camaro with proper tires is no more difficult to drive than any other. I can accelerate from a light as well or better than the majority of front wheel drive cars because most have worn all-season tires.

It really comes down to how you view your car. Is it your baby that never gets driven as it depreciates? Or is it a car, to be consumed before you get the next one? I often wonder if the drop in sales is because garages are full of never driven 5th and 6th gen Camaros