[Bains]

^ Exactly. Any car guy knows that the Camaro is the superior "muscle" car on the market and are able to overlook things like visibility. However, the normal car buyer looks at practicality over performance so things such as cabin size and visibility are important to them.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Bains

^ Exactly. Any car guy knows that the Camaro is the superior "muscle" car on the market and are able to overlook things like visibility. However, the normal car buyer looks at practicality over performance so things such as cabin size and visibility are important to them.

While this is true. It amazes me how many licensed drivers have no clue how to properly position their side view mirrors.

When positioned correctly, there is NO blind spot in the Camaro. Between the rear view mirror, side view mirrors and side windows, I can see cars go from in front of me, beside me and behind me with NEVER losing sight of them.

I think the US needs a revamped DMV driving test.

[HighIron]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

While this is true. It amazes me how many licensed drivers have no clue how to properly position their side view mirrors.

When positioned correctly, there is NO blind spot in the Camaro. Between the rear view mirror, side view mirrors and side windows, I can see cars go from in front of me, beside me and behind me with NEVER losing sight of them.

I think the US needs a revamped DMV driving test.

Bingo. Between the proper use of the mirrors AND maintaining situational awareness, keeping track of traffic around you is no problem at all. In a way, the limited outside views of the car force you ( and that's a good thing ) to be more vigilant.


The only tough part is backing up in crowded areas, and for that, the rear camera is not only helpful, but absolutely necessary.


FWIW, I got used to "the lack of vision" in my 6th gens in about 23 minutes. I get into a sedan of some sort and it feels like a fish bowl by comparison.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by HighIron

Bingo. Between the proper use of the mirrors AND maintaining situational awareness, keeping track of traffic around you is no problem at all. In a way, the limited outside views of the car force you ( and that's a good thing ) to be more vigilant.


The only tough part is backing up in crowded areas, and for that, the rear camera is not only helpful, but absolutely necessary.


FWIW, I got used to "the lack of vision" in my 6th gens in about 23 minutes. I get into a sedan of some sort and it feels like a fish bowl by comparison.

Same here, I was really concerned before I got mine (first Camaro) , but after about 30 mins and properly positioned mirrors, it was a total none issue, and I am on multi-lane CA freeways every day. I don't even use the blind spot monitoring , which I thought before I had the car was absolutely necessary.

AND I TOTALLY agree with you on the back up camera. I do believe that it is now a required piece of safety equipment in the US.

I also think that all manufacturers of sports cars with low front splitters should step up to the plate and make forward facing cameras as standard equipment as well.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

I cannot image why Camaro has fallen behind the boat anchor Dodge Challenger. What an ugly and outdated POS.

On the other hand, my small family owned dealer has been unable to get a single ZL1 allocation, and has several customers clamoring for one.

What's up with that, GM?

Pricing. You can get a fully loaded Hemi Challenger with leather, moonroof, T/A pack for $35k out the door even with a sticker $10k more. It’s easy to get a screamin deal on one.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Bains

^ Exactly. Any car guy knows that the Camaro is the superior "muscle" car on the market and are able to overlook things like visibility. However, the normal car buyer looks at practicality over performance so things such as cabin size and visibility are important to them.

The visibility thing is so overblown it makes me sick. I’m tired of hearing about it.

I learned to drive on a 1985 Eldorado. Google them if you forgot what they look like or have never seen one. You know the blind spots on that thing with the large block of steel behind the rear side windows, the thin slit of a rear window, and the side view mirrors the size of a thimble? And of course this was long before anyone heard of blind spot monitoring or reverse sensors.

I never wrecked it, learned to back it between two large trucks and parallel park it, and now I have all my monitoring on the Camaro turned off.

[smokinzx14r]

Price is why I got my 2015 GT Mustang .. 30k was a great deal .. I passed on the challenger Scat Pack because they would not move off the 45k sticker price ... I passed on the Camaro because it was in the 40s for a 1SS and the dealer would not move off that price .. With sales so low on the 2018 Camaro's I was able to get my 1SS for 31,050 , sticker was 40,999 .. I wish chevy had dropped the price sooner , because my Camaro is a better car than my Mustang ..The Mustang was a good car but the Camaro is just a bit better at everything than the Mustang is..

I'm sure glad I got a 2018 because the 2019 looks like crap to me but so does the fish faced 2018 Mustang ..

[ItsChristianInHD]

Originally Posted by fastball

The visibility thing is so overblown it makes me sick. I’m tired of hearing about it.

I learned to drive on a 1985 Eldorado. Google them if you forgot what they look like or have never seen one. You know the blind spots on that thing with the large block of steel behind the rear side windows, the thin slit of a rear window, and the side view mirrors the size of a thimble? And of course this was long before anyone heard of blind spot monitoring or reverse sensors.

I never wrecked it, learned to back it between two large trucks and parallel park it, and now I have all my monitoring on the Camaro turned off.

I agree with you man. The visibilty issue is like beating a dead horse. I have had no issues with my car.

[Prodogs]

Ditto

Overblown - position the side mirrors correctly and you get maximum visibility.

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

I agree with you man. The visibilty issue is like beating a dead horse. I have had no issues with my car.

[Aragorn]

Looks alone, I actually like the challenger better. It’s seems to embody the classsic muscle car look really well. As an overall package the Camaro is better.

[arpad_m]

There is no real visibility issue on the 6th gen Camaro compared to other cars, and in fact this car is absolutely amazing, worth every penny in my book.

However, it's also a perception game, and I'd love to see some actual, genuine survey responses on why people chose a Mustang or a Dodge over our cars. I can imagine the higher starting price, bad dealer experience, rear seat legroom, slit-like windows and rear windshield or the small trunk opening all contribute in part, then the styling may not sit well with millennials, but this is all just conjecture.

[the_swiSS]

Is the 6th Gen really that expensive over in USA? In Switzerland, my loaded 2SS was half the price of a base M4 (Both brand new ofc).

[Number 3]

You guys remain hilarious. Listen to yourselves without the "my baby is perfect" thoughts in your head.

"If you drive it like a panel van with no rear windows, you can learn to get used to it if you just position the mirrors properly". or "I've driven worse".


It's a thing guys and for some it's a problem. GM will never share the "reasons for not buying". In fact GM has historically been bad at even addressing it internally. But being able to see out of the car is what make the car feel more open. It's a feeling. And people buy cars on feelings.

Name another product you would consider buying that when you first used it your impression was negative and someone tried to convince you "you'll get used to it".

Also there is a HUGE difference between Direct Vision and Indirect Vision (mirrors and cameras).

I do some of this for a living guys, even wrote a thesis on it years ago. It's a thing.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You guys remain hilarious. Listen to yourselves without the "my baby is perfect" thoughts in your head.

"If you drive it like a panel van with no rear windows, you can learn to get used to it if you just position the mirrors properly". or "I've driven worse".


It's a thing guys and for some it's a problem. GM will never share the "reasons for not buying". In fact GM has historically been bad at even addressing it internally. But being able to see out of the car is what make the car feel more open. It's a feeling. And people buy cars on feelings.

Name another product you would consider buying that when you first used it your impression was negative and someone tried to convince you "you'll get used to it".

Also there is a HUGE difference between Direct Vision and Indirect Vision (mirrors and cameras).

I do some of this for a living guys, even wrote a thesis on it years ago. It's a thing.

I have to agree. I can't comment on Camaro visibility, but any car with limited visibility is not as comfortable to drive. I drive a Trailblazer every day, with excellent visibility. When I drive my wife's 2012 SRX, I can't stand the massive A pillar (that can easily hide a car believe it or not), and door post. There is a difference between a quick check and being comfortable that there are no cars in the area, and having to carefully check, double check, move your head to get a better view, etc. I know if I drove the SRX every day I would adjust, but I would always be less comfortable in it.

I personally think the performance of a Camaro SS justifies having limited visibility, but I would think it's a pretty hard sell for the I4 and V6 models.