[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Camaro = iceman
Mustang = maverick

Most of your posts regarding mustang vs camaro are nonsensical so this is par for the course.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Mustang gt for the street for sure

Get the 1le if you never want to get scared or get your blood flowing because it’s handling limits are so high and it’s so controlled.

For those that are played a lot of car racing sims or video games.

-The mustang is the souped up economy car, difficult to control but a lot of fun. Too powerful for the chassis.

-The camaro is the low level race car. Super predictable, amazing handling, chassis and suspension does not match the motor, way underpowered, very few pucker moments or driving mistakes made.

I’d probably still buy a camaro, but I’d have to think about it, mustang will be more fun on the street in the same way a 400whp crx will put a bigger smile on your face than la ferrari. What the hell you going to do with a la ferrari on public roads, floor it on the highway, that’s it.

If you enjoy uncontrollably jumping curbs into crowds, yes a lot more fun.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

...Not to mention even in the lightning lap article they talk about the ss 1le being the better handling car as well as Randy Pobst saying the same. Obviously it won handily with the same tires in the throttle house comparison, but that wasn't oem equipment and really not necessary to make the point.
...

I actually liked the TH comparison because tires can make a world of difference. Putting the two cars on the same rubber eliminates that variable, so it's better to understand the difference in chassis, suspension, etc. of the two cars.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

If you enjoy uncontrollably jumping curbs into crowds, yes a lot more fun.

To be fair, any high powered car and an idiot driver will murder some crowds at Cars and Coffee. Camaro SS, Corvette, Viper, M4, you name it, all it takes is one idiot.

This is just a guess, but aside from some design issues with the Mustang(especially the older ones), these fail videos were shot and uploaded when platforms like YouTube start to really take off, and Mustangs' low price ensured that any idiot can get in one. Camaro was on a hiatus back then, and in general, Camaros aren't as common, which might have helped prevent people from associating Camaros as well with crowd killers.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

To be fair, any high powered car and an idiot driver will murder some crowds at Cars and Coffee. Camaro SS, Corvette, Viper, M4, you name it, all it takes is one idiot.

This is just a guess, but aside from some design issues with the Mustang(especially the older ones), these fail videos were shot and uploaded when platforms like YouTube start to really take off, and Mustangs' low price ensured that any idiot can get in one. Camaro was on a hiatus back then, and in general, Camaros aren't as common, which might have helped prevent people from associating Camaros as well with crowd killers.

Are you familiar with this review of the updated 2018 Performance Package vs SS 1LE?

There appears to be much more wrong with the Mustang than than you describe.

When I asked our handling guru Kim Reynolds what he thought about the two cars after lapping them, he looked first at the Camaro then disparagingly glanced at the Mustang and said, “There’s about 4,000 years of evolution separating the two.”
...
Ever since the Mustang went with an independent rear end, the GTs haven’t been set up properly. ... I had high hopes the combination of the 2018 refresh, the new Performance Pack giddies, and MagneRide would fix things. Nope. The car rolls over on itself and seems to not only understeer but also to try and oversteer at the same time. Like the front and back aren’t actually connected.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I actually liked the TH comparison because tires can make a world of difference. Putting the two cars on the same rubber eliminates that variable, so it's better to understand the difference in chassis, suspension, etc. of the two cars.



To be fair, any high powered car and an idiot driver will murder some crowds at Cars and Coffee. Camaro SS, Corvette, Viper, M4, you name it, all it takes is one idiot.

This is just a guess, but aside from some design issues with the Mustang(especially the older ones), these fail videos were shot and uploaded when platforms like YouTube start to really take off, and Mustangs' low price ensured that any idiot can get in one. Camaro was on a hiatus back then, and in general, Camaros aren't as common, which might have helped prevent people from associating Camaros as well with crowd killers.

I'm mostly taking a dig at GuywithL86 and his constant nonsense about the camaro being too planted and the mustang being the more fun car because it loses control easier, not a real dig at the mustang per say.

In my opinion mustangs are involved in a lot more of those fail videos because, they're abundant and popular, high horsepower cars that are affordable for young kids to get into. Kids that should have probably cut their teeth on an easier car imo.

Just look at a 2020 base mustang gt, really fast, 460 hp, on a so so base chassis, base brakes, with all season 235s on all four wheels, can be had for the low 30ks. Pretty easy for an inexperienced driver trying to act cool to get themselves into trouble with imo. Driven responsibly or by s skilled driver, there's nothing wrong with the car itself.

Also I like the same tire comparison as well, and really shows what the car is capable of, but when discussing bone stock tires I prefer oem tires to be used.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Are you familiar with this review of the updated 2018 Performance Package vs SS 1LE?

There appears to be much more wrong with the Mustang than than you describe.

I did address the different approaches of the two cars. Mustang definitely feels more "slapped together" than Camaro.

But for those who have trouble leaving Cars and Coffee, the handling of the car in question is less important than the training and the intelligence of the driver. Some supercars crash as well at the hands of the wrong drivers.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I'm mostly taking a dig at GuywithL86 and his constant nonsense about the camaro being too planted and the mustang being the more fun car because it loses control easier, not a real dig at the mustang per say...

IMO there is a difference between breaking loose and losing control. Breaking loose is fun because you are still in control, losing control is not because, well, you are not in control.

Personally I like a car that has better composure, so Camaro wins out for me.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I did address the different approaches of the two cars. Mustang definitely feels more "slapped together" than Camaro.

But for those who have trouble leaving Cars and Coffee, the handling of the car in question is less important than the training and the intelligence of the driver. Some supercars crash as well at the hands of the wrong drivers.



IMO there is a difference between breaking loose and losing control. Breaking loose is fun because you are still in control, losing control is not because, well, you are not in control.

Personally I like a car that has better composure, so Camaro wins out for me.

The camaro is well composed, but you can still kick the rear end lose at will and easily reel it back in.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I'm mostly taking a dig at GuywithL86 and his constant nonsense about the camaro being too planted and the mustang being the more fun car because it loses control easier, not a real dig at the mustang per say.

In my opinion mustangs are involved in a lot more of those fail videos because, they're abundant and popular, high horsepower cars that are affordable for young kids to get into. Kids that should have probably cut their teeth on an easier car imo.

Just look at a 2020 base mustang gt, really fast, 460 hp, on a so so base chassis, base brakes, with all season 235s on all four wheels, can be had for the low 30ks. Pretty easy for an inexperienced driver trying to act cool to get themselves into trouble with imo. Driven responsibly or by s skilled driver, there's nothing wrong with the car itself.

Also I like the same tire comparison as well, and really shows what the car is capable of, but when discussing bone stock tires I prefer oem tires to be used.

The last Mustang I had was a 2011 5.0, and I can say that something about it would cause the back end to kick if you grabbed second hard or even third on a cold morning. It was more than manageable by a decent driver, but you get someone who that's their first fast car, I can see why so many of them get crashed. It's 100% the driver's fault, don't drive like an asshat leaving cars and coffee, but that kick isn't done on purpose.

Cheap 400+ hp cars are terrifying. IMO it's already more power than can really be enjoyed on the street, but then they've got 80k miles on them so all the suspension bits are worn out, and some Delinte tires because that's all the owner can afford. It's just a recipe for disaster.

[John_B]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

The last Mustang I had was a 2011 5.0, and I can say that something about it would cause the back end to kick if you grabbed second hard or even third on a cold morning. It was more than manageable by a decent driver, but you get someone who that's their first fast car, I can see why so many of them get crashed. It's 100% the driver's fault, don't drive like an asshat leaving cars and coffee, but that kick isn't done on purpose.

Cheap 400+ hp cars are terrifying. IMO it's already more power than can really be enjoyed on the street, but then they've got 80k miles on them so all the suspension bits are worn out, and some Delinte tires because that's all the owner can afford. It's just a recipe for disaster.

2011 also came with a joke of a tire, 235 pirelli all seasons. Anybody can crash that off the showroom floor

[Bosse'sBoss]

Even the base 6th gen Camaro SS is superior in performance compared to the Mustang GT

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by John_B

2011 also came with a joke of a tire, 235 pirelli all seasons. Anybody can crash that off the showroom floor

I bought mine for hilariously cheap off Bring a Trailer, and it came with some new 275 square Kumho summer tires. I burned those up learning how to autocross and had an extra set of wheels already that I put Conti ECS on for daily use. So I never got to experience it with all-seasons.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Even the base 6th gen Camaro SS is superior in performance compared to the Mustang GT

The base SS is superior to the PP1 and actually has the cooling and brakes to complete a full track session.

Streets of Willow

01:20.67 - 2018 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE
01:22.94 - 2015 BMW M4
01:23.15 - 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS (2SS)
01:23.97 - 2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...let-camaro-ss/

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The base SS is superior to the PP1 and actually has the cooling and brakes to complete a full track session.

Agree. And the SS1LE is faster at the track compared to the Ford Mustang GT PP2 and also is faster compared to the BMW M2 Competition.

Per R&T
Thermal Club Track

BMW M2 Competition 1:28.9
Camaro SS1LE. 1:26.6


Per Throttle house
Canadian Track

Mustang GT PP2 1:12.7
Camaro SS1LE. 1:11.5

https://youtu.be/DGH3XoBXd0M
https://youtu.be/ifaWMxS1O10

[s346k]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Mustang gt for the street for sure

Get the 1le if you never want to get scared or get your blood flowing because it’s handling limits are so high and it’s so controlled.

For those that are played a lot of car racing sims or video games.

-The mustang is the souped up economy car, difficult to control but a lot of fun. Too powerful for the chassis.

-The camaro is the low level race car. Super predictable, amazing handling, chassis and suspension does not match the motor, way underpowered, very few pucker moments or driving mistakes made.

I’d probably still buy a camaro, but I’d have to think about it, mustang will be more fun on the street in the same way a 400whp crx will put a bigger smile on your face than la ferrari. What the hell you going to do with a la ferrari on public roads, floor it on the highway, that’s it.

i think one thing you haven’t considered... for those of us who didn’t wake up in 2017 and buy our first car - the camaro, especially a 1LE, is a breath of got damn fresh air. i spent the last 20 years trying to tie together a car of it’s magnitude and capability using previous gm camaros and some corvettes. wasn’t gonna happen. even the best parts on a 4th gen chassis isn’t going to touch a rock stock 1LE. always trying to get the cars to hook, turn and stop on a budget was a huge challenge.

while more fun to you might be spinning tires everywhere, it’s leaning the other way for me. i spent a lot of time spinning tires and more money trying to get my cars close to something of the alpha chassis level... and after driving one, i realized how bad i had failed.

the 1LE is the (most reasonable) car i’ve been trying to build. yes i want it to hook, turn and not be a pile of shit. spent decades fighting traction loss and body roll. i think the c6 was the first to accomplish all of this, but i didn’t have c6 money and i needed a back seat when those cars were released.

edit: thankfully tire technology has grown A LOT in the last 10 years and you can now own cars that dig, turn and stop... all on the same tire.

in other words... it ain’t my first day and you telling me you want an under performing car is comical. if shitbox is what you want, you’re not looking at new cars.