[JROC]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

The truck 6.2, the l86, has the same exact cam as the lt1. Crank, cam, valves, pistons, rods, spring, the entire longblock is identical, part number for part number. The only difference is the intake and exhaust manifolds.

The trucks dyno low because of drivetrain losses. It’s something like 22%.

There is no l86 dyno that is in the “550whp range and 750ish torque” ...you just made that up.

That’s infact the most ridiculous stat I’ve ever heard since torque and hp meet at 5250 rpm, which means it would have to make 750ft lbs of torque at like 3800rpm and then fall off a cliff, made even worse by the fact you said it had a 2.9L blower.

I've never heard of a l86 dyno either.

Did you get you feelings hurt?

If that's the most ridiculous stat you've ever heard then you haven't heard a lot.

Why would I lie? It was on one of the Race Proven Motorsports videos from a while back. I don't have time to go back and look thru a bunch of their videos to appease you.

If the truck 6.2L does in fact use the same components as the LT1 minus all the manifolds and the difference in power between the two is drivetrain lose then their drivetrain is pathetic. My 2V 5.4L in my L given some good rods and nearly a 3L TS blower would make more power than this truck made even with its heavy 4R100 and the 9.75" rear.

Stock cam or not I did find the HP it put down to be pathetic and a Whipple Coyote F150 would of ate this 6.2L GEN5 alive, and that's just the reality.

Edit:
Here's a video of a similar truck. You may want to skip to about the 12 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/SSdqFraTCpk

Pretty sure it's not the one I remember because I thought that one was black, this is a Silverado and I think the one I saw was a Sierra, and in the video I saw they started discussing how the factory cam was holding the power back. This truck with a 2.9L Whipple only put down about 538 WHP and 627 lb-ft.

That's pretty lousy (pump gas or not) for a performance motor, (i.e. Corvette) but a great powerband for a truck motor even if it should make more HP. Hell a stock LS1 with a Procharger will make that kind of HP. I don't see a C7 or GEN6 having that big of a difference in torque and HP with a 2.9L Whipple even if you don't crack the valve covers, and even if you're running factory exhaust manifolds, but who knows maybe Whipple is using a more efficient blower housing on the car blowers. I doubt it though.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by JROC

I've never heard of a l86 dyno either.

Did you get you feelings hurt?

If that's the most ridiculous stat you've ever heard then you haven't heard a lot.

Why would I lie? It was on one of the Race Proven Motorsports videos from a while back. I don't have time to go back and look thru a bunch of their videos to appease you.

If the truck 6.2L does in fact use the same components as the LT1 minus all the manifolds and the difference in power between the two is drivetrain lose then their drivetrain is pathetic. My 2V 5.4L in my L given some good rods and nearly a 3L TS blower would make more power than this truck made even with its heavy 4R100 and the 9.75" rear.

Stock cam or not I did find the HP it put down to be pathetic and a Whipple Coyote F150 would of ate this 6.2L GEN5 alive, and that's just the reality.

Edit:
Here's a video of a similar truck. You may want to skip to about the 12 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/SSdqFraTCpk

Pretty sure it's not the one I remember because I thought that one was black, this is a Silverado and I think the one I saw was a Sierra, and in the video I saw they started discussing how the factory cam was holding the power back. This truck with a 2.9L Whipple only put down about 538 WHP and 627 lb-ft.

That's pretty lousy (pump gas or not) for a performance motor, (i.e. Corvette) but a great powerband for a truck motor even if it should make more HP. Hell a stock LS1 with a Procharger will make that kind of HP. I don't see a C7 or GEN6 having that big of a difference in torque and HP with a 2.9L Whipple even if you don't crack the valve covers, and even if you're running factory exhaust manifolds, but who knows maybe Whipple is using a more efficient blower housing on the car blowers. I doubt it though.

You made up a story, a story with specifics, you bullshitted them. I’m not a fan.

Lol at the rest of your post. Also lol at “l86 dyno” The l86 is the truck motor.

[JROC]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

You made up a story, a story with specifics, you bullshitted them. I’m not a fan.

I didn't make shit up. I'm closing in on 40. I don't have time for that stupid shit. My #'s may be a little off because I'm thinking back several months, but that truck made well under 600 WHP and over 700 lb-ft..

Lol at the rest of your post. Also lol at “l86 dyno” The l86 is the truck motor.

No shit Sherlock. It's called a joke, or sarcasm, or me just being a smart ass. If you can't even recognize something that simple then I'm not a fan of you either.

[Bluecyclone]

Dang. I just bought a 2013 ecoboost that needs torque arms to stop the wheel hop, this 3.5 L TT makes some power itself. Mustang Dyno anyone?

[s346k]

i watched a 19 pp1 m6 coyote race a 18 2ss 1LE from 40. both cars bone stock and both had drivers. mustang jumped out maybe 1/2 car, maro ended up ahead by 1/2 @ 140.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by s346k

i watched a 19 pp1 m6 coyote race a 18 2ss 1LE from 40. both cars bone stock and both had drivers. mustang jumped out maybe 1/2 car, maro ended up ahead by 1/2 @ 140.

Surprised the gt jumped out but not surprised by the outcome.. see this often personally.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Surprised the gt jumped out but not surprised by the outcome.. see this often personally.

at 40 mph the maro is around 3200 rpm in second where the coyote car is 5kish. i raced the same pp1 stang after it got an xpipe, shifter and ethanol tune. he would jump out on me off the hit whether i spun or not. and when i say jump out i mean a fender or door, nothing major but highlights the difference in rpm.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by s346k

at 40 mph the maro is around 3200 rpm in second where the coyote car is 5kish. i raced the same pp1 stang after it got an xpipe, shifter and ethanol tune. he would jump out on me off the hit whether i spun or not. and when i say jump out i mean a fender or door, nothing major but highlights the difference in rpm.

Specifically, the A10 PP1 GT is at ~5000 rpm at 40 mph. Your previous post referred to an M6 GT, which is at ~4100 rpm in 2nd gear @ 40 mph.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by JROC

People always claim that the LT1 is a boring motor that while effective lacks personality and doesn't like to rev. I disagree. IMHO a stock LT1's powerband very much resembles a stock Terminators only a little stronger. When you've got good power at as low as 2000 RPM's that's not lacking personality IMO. As far as revs it's redline is what, I think 6600 RPM's? Fuel cutoff at like 6,800? Other than your 13+ GT500's I know of no Modular motor that makes those kind of revs and torque from the factory that an LT1 puts out.

IMO Coyote shines at making big power with boost. Ford's OHC motors just feel like they are meant for boosting as they handle it so well, and in a very refined way. But when trying to make big N/A power it's going to hit its limits well before a GEN4/GEN5 SBC with a 4+" bore. I often say that I prefer Fords boosted and my Chevys N/A.

And yes in 2011 Ford started getting serious with how they geared the Mustangs especially in the transmission. GM always gears their car very long-legged. Trying to let the motors torque pull it into its powerband. Long-legged is great in very powerful and/or lightweight cars (like a C6Z) but not ideal in heavier cars even with decent power.

If someone thinks a SBC lacks personality then they've likely not ridden in a car that's been cammed by someone who knows what they are doing. If you've ever ridden in an given stock LSx car and then ridden in the same car only cammed/bolton there's a huge difference in personality between. They quickly go from feeling like a broad brute to feeling like a hyperactive motor rushing to redline to get to the next gear as soon as possible. At least in the cammed LS cars I've been in. They are very entertaining. If you feel your GEN5 SBC lacks personality then don't be scared cam it. This also will give you a great reason to delete the AFM and its lifter. Then you will likely achieve a motpr capable of living up to that "SBC being ultra reliable" status. As long as you keep your valvetrain maintained properly.

Also people push this narrative that DOHC means it revs high, and OHV mean good torque but poor topend and low RPM's. These things aren't necessarily true. While yes to get a OHV motor to rev you need to invest in some good valvetrain components that emphasize light weight, but the real thing is can a motor breathe at X RPM's. Several DOHC Modulars redlined at only 6,200 RPM's. Coyote is never going to make lowend power like a LT1 will while remaining N/A. It would be pointless for them to try to replicate it with a N/A 5 liter motor. What they can do is make it rev to make very good power on the big end. GM has made the OEM GEN5 motors to emphasize a broad/linear powerband. The thing is GEN5 heads easily flow well enough to make good revs on a 4.06" bore and make power at 7000+ RPM's. IMHO the factory cam is what limits the LT1's topend, but that's a good thing as it's a relatively easy way to change the motor characteristics if you're wanting a more rev happy motor that emphasizes revs and topend power over a broad/torque powerband.

I saw this one video where this Sierra with a 6.2L good a new Whipple and it only made in like the 550 WHP range. You might say that that's pathetic for a 6.2L modern motor to only made that kind of power with a 2.9L twin screw blower and I would agree. The thing is that truck made like 750'ish lb-ft. They got to talking and said that this truck is just a cam swap away from making very big power, and I agree with that as well. The GEN5 6.2L truck cam is made to make its best power in a way idea for towing and hauling big loads. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't LT1 heads the same as the GEN5 6.2L truck heads?

Even a LS7 with a 4" stroke will rev to 7200 RPM's. That's because it's valvetrain can function correctly at those RPM's, it's oil and coolant systems can support them, and the motor flows well enough to breathe at those RPM's. Building LS motors with 4"+ bores using a 4.8L's crank, (I believe it produces a 3.25" stroke) some very highflowing heads, and building them with valvetrain components and supporting systems designed to handle high RPM's has become a pretty popular thing.

How about an LS motor that turns over 10,200 RPM's? If I'm not mistake this motor even uses a 3.6" stroke.

https://youtu.be/_-h4FeSgHIo

The LT1 is 6500 redline and 6600 cutoff. I don't think the LT1 is boring. I was a pushrod guy myself until I bought the 2018 Mustang. Stock for stock, take a look at the power curves for both. The Gen 3 Coyote has a very flat hp curve at the top end of its rpm band, which shows how well the engine breathes at high rpm. The LT1 rises and then starts to fall off right after peak power. The Gen 3 Coyote reaches peak power and maintains it for a bit and never really falls off. This curve doesn't go to the Coyote's redline of 7500 rpm but it generally stays pretty flat up there.

Obviously the smaller displacement DOHC engine won't make as much low end torque, but for being about 20% smaller displacement, the Coyote does a pretty good job of keeping it fairly close at the mid range rpms. At 4500 rpm the Coyote makes ~350 ft-lbs, while the LT1 makes about 365-370 ft-lbs (hard to tell exactly).

This is from K&N, so they are using the same dyno (blue curves are stock). They are both 3rd gear runs which isn't 1:1 in either car, so in 4th both cars would likely dyno more hp. Anyway:

Gen 3 Coyote:http://kandn.com/dynocharts/63-2605_dyno.pdf
LT1: http://kandn.com/dynocharts/63-3092_dyno.pdf

One observation is that the Coyote peak stock hp is 400 rwhp from 6900-7200 rpm on this dyno, while the LT1 is about 385 rwhp @ 5900 rpm.

Interestingly, the Coyote K&N CAI intake makes large power gains up top and adequate midrange torque increase, while the LT1 K&N CAI intake makes good mid range power improvements, but tapers off at 5200 rpm and doesn't increase the peak hp of the LT1 by more than about 2-3 hp. I'm curious as to why.

I installed the K&N intake on my GT and noticed a big improvement in mass airflow readings that would correspond to the published K&N curve.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by s346k

at 40 mph the maro is around 3200 rpm in second where the coyote car is 5kish. i raced the same pp1 stang after it got an xpipe, shifter and ethanol tune. he would jump out on me off the hit whether i spun or not. and when i say jump out i mean a fender or door, nothing major but highlights the difference in rpm.

A stock gear m6 mustang GT is not at 5k in 2nd at 40mph, someone pointed it out but figured I'd chime in. Until fourth (1:1) gear its only around 1000 rpm more than the camaro at most speeds in the same gear, give or take some.

[6spdhyperblue]

Both 3.73 on their oem tire height

GT mt82 (1:1 5th gear)
Top speed at 7000rpm in each gear is 41.6 / 62.6 / 90.0 / 115.3 / 152.2 / 234.1

SS tr6060 (1:1 4th gear)
Top speed at 6600rpm in each gear is 53 / 80 / 110 / 143 / 193 / 286

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The LT1 is 6500 redline and 6600 cutoff. I don't think the LT1 is boring. I was a pushrod guy myself until I bought the 2018 Mustang. Stock for stock, take a look at the power curves for both. The Gen 3 Coyote has a very flat hp curve at the top end of its rpm band, which shows how well the engine breathes at high rpm. The LT1 rises and then starts to fall off right after peak power. The Gen 3 Coyote reaches peak power and maintains it for a bit and never really falls off. This curve doesn't go to the Coyote's redline of 7500 rpm but it generally stays pretty flat up there.

Obviously the smaller displacement DOHC engine won't make as much low end torque, but for being about 20% smaller displacement, the Coyote does a pretty good job of keeping it fairly close at the mid range rpms. At 4500 rpm the Coyote makes ~350 ft-lbs, while the LT1 makes about 365-370 ft-lbs (hard to tell exactly).

This is from K&N, so they are using the same dyno (blue curves are stock). They are both 3rd gear runs which isn't 1:1 in either car, so in 4th both cars would likely dyno more hp. Anyway:

Gen 3 Coyote:http://kandn.com/dynocharts/63-2605_dyno.pdf
LT1: http://kandn.com/dynocharts/63-3092_dyno.pdf

One observation is that the Coyote peak stock hp is 400 rwhp from 6900-7200 rpm on this dyno, while the LT1 is about 385 rwhp @ 5900 rpm.

Interestingly, the Coyote K&N CAI intake makes large power gains up top and adequate midrange torque increase, while the LT1 K&N CAI intake makes good mid range power improvements, but tapers off at 5200 rpm and doesn't increase the peak hp of the LT1 by more than about 2-3 hp. I'm curious as to why.

I installed the K&N intake on my GT and noticed a big improvement in mass airflow readings that would correspond to the published K&N curve.

There are a whole lot of factors as to why a cold air intake would perform a certain way with a stock tune car, let a lone comparing two different cars and engines. The lt1's have very sensitive MAF's as I know the 5.0s do as well, while these may both be K&N intakes they are not exactly the same either, very hard to compare being that nothing here is really apples to apples and the computers will react different to changes in air flow.

If we're going to be taking CAI manufacture provided numbers as any kind of hard data, then I'm sure Cold Air Inductions, Rotofab, Mishimoto, ect have some charts they can show with different curves.

Take this one from Cold Air Inductions. Not that anyone should take figures put out by a CAI manufacture too seriously, but this one is a very similar curve to the 5.0 K&N curve. Before you say the CAI CAI and K&N CAI aren't the same, neither are the K&N camaro and muatang CAI's.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Both 3.73 on their oem tire height

GT mt82 (1:1 5th gear)
Top speed at 7000rpm in each gear is 41.6 / 62.6 / 90.0 / 115.3 / 152.2 / 234.1

SS tr6060 (1:1 4th gear)
Top speed at 6600rpm in each gear is 53 / 80 / 110 / 143 / 193 / 286

This data isn't relevant here, that is 15-17 5.0 and mt82 info. The 18+ 5.0 has a 7400 rpm redline and 4th gear is the 1:1 on the current mt82. All these changes in short years get confusing.

The Camaro is on the left the Mustang on the right, 2019 SS 1le and 2019 GT pp2. This is an 18+ 5.0 with a 7400 rpm redline and the newer longer geared MT82 with a 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

[s346k]

idk what gear or rpm the coyote was, i was in a camaro. he said 5k. it might’ve really been 4, i have no idea. fact is stock for stock it still jumped out at 40. his slightly modded car to mine still jumped out but i think it was mainly because i was spinning. 50 mph wasn’t as bad for me off the hit.

edit: i won’t lie, i expected more from the coyote. internet says they’re stone cold camaro killers. the car seems to run ok and has a driver.