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Old 06-30-2020, 06:12 PM   #15
Msquared
 
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caSStro18 View Post
Yeah, that’s a bit more than I want to spend. Are there other 6x9 speakers that sound considerably better than stock for less money? I know brands like Kicker, Pioneer, Kenwood, Infinity, and JBL, make good speakers. I just don’t want to spend a ton of money for small improvements in sound quality. I know you get what you pay for, but there must be a happy medium in there somewhere. Also, does changing out the door speakers do anything with the warranty?
I get it. I would tell you, though, that the GS690s are more than a small improvement in sound quality, as well as a substantial improvement in low-frequency range. They are rated down to 42Hz, which covers the entire range of bass guitar and leaves out the bottom end of very few instruments and no voices. Not all 6x9s do. The other thing is that if you were to only spend $200 on a sub and amp, your system is going to sound a lot less good than this (to be blunt).

That said, it does occur to me that you probably have a separate amp in your trunk already, which means you may not need quite as sensitive speakers. This opens up options. Just perusing the Crutchfield site for a minute, I see that the JL Audio C1-690 component set includes a 6x9 mid/woofer that is even more sensitive than the Audiofrogs and extends all the way down to 39Hz, for $159. You could get that and just install the 6x9s in the doors and leave the tweeter out altogether, or pull out the dash speakers (or just leave them if you can access their wires under the dash and cut the positive lead to each) and figure out a good surface mount strategy for the JL tweeter now or later.* This seems pretty compelling, given your goals.

Also, Kenwood has the Excelon KFC-XP6902C, which comes with drop-in replacements for the door and dash speakers with an small crossover filter for $219. It extends down to 45Hz, and it's a lot less sensitive at only 84dB (but that may not matter much if you have a factory amp). I think they will be a significant upgrade in sound quality and extension for less than half the price of equivalent Audiofrogs.

To answer a couple other questions:
  • I would not say it's hard to replace the dash speakers. It takes some time to pull the A-pillar trim and dash panel/grills, but you can do it with pretty basic tools. If you decide to go this route, there are a couple threads in here with links to videos that tell you a lot. And you can hit us up with questions, of course.
  • Yep, the Metra 72-5600 fits the speaker connections for our door speakers. Apparently it's a popular connector in the industry. I don't know why they make it sound like a Ford-only connector, but it's for more than just Fords.
  • You mentioned saving space in the trunk. In addition, you save adding significant weight with a sub, which was a big motivator for me (I autocross my car quite a bit). Finally, skipping sub keeps you from having to pull a bunch of trim to run wires back from the front kick panel.

*Expert advice is that the 2.5" mid/tweeters do well mounted in the dash and bouncing off the windshield, but smaller tweeters don't.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by caSStro18 View Post
Could someone steer me in the right direction on adding a sub to my 2018 1SS? I am exhausted from looking. All I want is a simple/inexpensive way to add some bass to this car because it is almost non-existent. Not looking for a thumping, blow out your eardrums bass, just something to give it some more depth. I've already figured I will need the adapter for the factory amp so that I don't have to cut any factory wires, and I will need the ANC bypass harness as well. But, from there I have no idea. I've seriously been reading and researching what I need but the price adds up pretty quickly. I just want the minimum to get some bass, that's it. I don't know a whole lot about car audio systems, so it's a bit of a learning curve right now and there is SOOOO much information out there I can't wrap my mind around what I should do.
I know you said sub only at first and then talked about other speakers but could you give us a budget? Maybe we could help guide you better. Are you like me in that it will never be enough? Constantly upgrading? It would be best to just keep saving up and doing it right the first time. Speaking from experience in systems in my other vehicles. My Camaro is stock for now.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Msquared View Post
I get it. I would tell you, though, that the GS690s are more than a small improvement in sound quality, as well as a substantial improvement in low-frequency range. They are rated down to 42Hz, which covers the entire range of bass guitar and leaves out the bottom end of very few instruments and no voices. Not all 6x9s do. The other thing is that if you were to only spend $200 on a sub and amp, your system is going to sound a lot less good than this (to be blunt).

That said, it does occur to me that you probably have a separate amp in your trunk already, which means you may not need quite as sensitive speakers. This opens up options. Just perusing the Crutchfield site for a minute, I see that the JL Audio C1-690 component set includes a 6x9 mid/woofer that is even more sensitive than the Audiofrogs and extends all the way down to 39Hz, for $159. You could get that and just install the 6x9s in the doors and leave the tweeter out altogether, or pull out the dash speakers (or just leave them if you can access their wires under the dash and cut the positive lead to each) and figure out a good surface mount strategy for the JL tweeter now or later.* This seems pretty compelling, given your goals.

Also, Kenwood has the Excelon KFC-XP6902C, which comes with drop-in replacements for the door and dash speakers with an small crossover filter for $219. It extends down to 45Hz, and it's a lot less sensitive at only 84dB (but that may not matter much if you have a factory amp). I think they will be a significant upgrade in sound quality and extension for less than half the price of equivalent Audiofrogs.

To answer a couple other questions:
  • I would not say it's hard to replace the dash speakers. It takes some time to pull the A-pillar trim and dash panel/grills, but you can do it with pretty basic tools. If you decide to go this route, there are a couple threads in here with links to videos that tell you a lot. And you can hit us up with questions, of course.
  • Yep, the Metra 72-5600 fits the speaker connections for our door speakers. Apparently it's a popular connector in the industry. I don't know why they make it sound like a Ford-only connector, but it's for more than just Fords.
  • You mentioned saving space in the trunk. In addition, you save adding significant weight with a sub, which was a big motivator for me (I autocross my car quite a bit). Finally, skipping sub keeps you from having to pull a bunch of trim to run wires back from the front kick panel.

*Expert advice is that the 2.5" mid/tweeters do well mounted in the dash and bouncing off the windshield, but smaller tweeters don't.
Seriously, THANK YOU! There are just so many options out there! I am not an expert in this area at all. I just know that the stock non-BOSE sound is pretty weak in my opinion and leaves out a lot of range, especially in the lower end. Not looking to shatter windows or blow eardrums. I don't listen to rap or anything that "hits hard". I'm in my 40's and over that stuff. I just want to have decent sound quality.

My car does have the amp in the back. I will be looking into the two speakers you recommended. I like the idea of having the other speakers that I can install at a later time. If it's not too difficult to get the dash speakers out, I think replacing those at some point might make sense. Again, thank you so much for the help!
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 900RFWN View Post
I know you said sub only at first and then talked about other speakers but could you give us a budget? Maybe we could help guide you better. Are you like me in that it will never be enough? Constantly upgrading? It would be best to just keep saving up and doing it right the first time. Speaking from experience in systems in my other vehicles. My Camaro is stock for now.
I did say sub at first because I was thinking all I really wanted was a little more low end because it is quite lacking in the non-BOSE system in my 1SS. I never really considered just replacing the factory speakers until it was mentioned here. You're right. I probably should just do it right the first time because I don't want to be taking the car apart anymore than necessary. But, I don't want to spend a ton of money either since this is not my daily driver. I'm trying to improve the sound quality for around $200 if possible. I could go a little higher if it is worth it. I know almost nothing about this, so it's all a learning thing for me right now.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:44 PM   #19
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What do you think of these Infinity Reference REF-9633ix speakers?
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by caSStro18 View Post
What do you think of these Infinity Reference REF-9633ix speakers?
Infinity seems to be pretty good. I like that they use 3 and 2 ohm speakers which would work great with factory power. Personally I would use a set of components with an external amp. Any external amp no matter how small will sound better. If you’re using factory power infinity would be great. Want good budget components? I would recommend Morel Maximo 6.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:21 PM   #21
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Seriously, THANK YOU! There are just so many options out there! I am not an expert in this area at all.
I was mostly in the same boat when I bought my car in February. I have a little knowledge from home hi-fi stuff that carries over, but there's a lot that doesn't carry over. So mostly I'm just telling you what I've sorted through in the past four months.

Quote:
I don't listen to rap or anything that "hits hard". I'm in my 40's and over that stuff. I just want to have decent sound quality.
Man, I've literally said the exact same thing. Mainly I want to have music that sounds...like music. The way I said it was that a lot of rock doesn't come across badly on the stock system, but the better recorded stuff or most jazz/symphony/opera/etc music is not well served by it at all. That has definitely changed with my speaker upgrades.

I'm no expert in these different speakers, but Infinity has products from budget junk to super-high-end. The problem I see with the ones you linked is that they are three-way speakers (woofers, "mids," and tweeters with crossover combined in one unit). You can do that, but the factory system in our cars is actually set up as a two-way component set in the doors and dash. The doors are the woofers and the dash handles most of the midrange and all the tweeter range. They are both on the same channel. The door speakers get a full-range signal, and the dash speakers have a 68uF capacitor at their terminal that serves as a high-pass filter so that they only get from roughly 600Hz and up.

So if it were me, I would choose to go with a single-driver 6x9 woofer in each door (without the mids and tweeters), and keep using the dash speaker and its high-pass filter for the mids/highs. Doing it that way replicates the factory setup, only with far better drivers. They have, in fact, done a fair amount of work making what's in there sound good (for what it is). So that's why I did it the way I did. I hope that makes sense. It does seem hard to find 6x9 woofers sold by themselves, without a tweeter and crossover accompanying them. And there really aren't many 2.5" "twiddlers" that directly replace the dash speakers. That's one thing that makes the Kenwood set I mentioned such an easy recommendation: it's all ready to drop in exactly where you want to change your speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 900RFWN
Infinity seems to be pretty good. I like that they use 3 and 2 ohm speakers which would work great with factory power. Personally I would use a set of components with an external amp. Any external amp no matter how small will sound better. If you’re using factory power infinity would be great.
I would be a little cautious here without knowing more about the factory amp. It's true that lower-impedance speakers will allow more power through. However, I know in the home-audio world not every amp is thrilled at the idea of driving low-impedance loads such as a 2ohm speaker, or at least doesn't double its power because it runs out of current into the lower impedance. Maybe the OE amp doesn't have issues with that, but I'd want to be sure. As I wrote earlier, the factory non-Bose system uses 4ohm speakers, and the 4ohm AFs I dropped in actually play louder because they are more sensitive.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:39 PM   #22
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I personally would wait, save up a little more and go with a set of components up front with a 10” sub sealed or maybe ported in the trunk based off the OPs tastes. All other speakers disconnected. A little 2ch amp for the components and mono for the sub or perhaps one amp that can do 3ch to power it all.

Btw, for any of you looking for LOCs, harness and ANC bypasses check out this site. I think you’ll be better off than ST.

https://lljcustoms.com/store/ols/pro...-amp-t-harness
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:37 PM   #23
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So, it seems to be getting a little more confusing. From what i understand it would be best to find a component system that includes 6x9's used only for the lows and something else for the mids and highs. Most component systems come with the 6x9 woofers and tweeters. Since the Camaro's dash speakers are the mids and highs, it seems dumb to get tweeters. It would be better to upgrade the 6x9 door speakers with woofers and then upgrade the dash speakers (mids/highs) as well. The Kenwood set has the woofers and the the 2.5" mid/high speakers. So this seems the best choice. But, will the Kenwood 2.5' speakers fit in the spot where the factory dash speakers are located? I can't tell and Crutchfield doesn't really say. regardless, will just replacing the 6x9's make a big enough difference to justify the $219? Or would I need to replace the dash ones and the door ones to really hear a big difference? Also, now I'm thinking a better amp might be needed as well. And that's a whole other can of worms!
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by caSStro18 View Post
So, it seems to be getting a little more confusing. From what i understand it would be best to find a component system that includes 6x9's used only for the lows and something else for the mids and highs. Most component systems come with the 6x9 woofers and tweeters. Since the Camaro's dash speakers are the mids and highs, it seems dumb to get tweeters. It would be better to upgrade the 6x9 door speakers with woofers and then upgrade the dash speakers (mids/highs) as well. The Kenwood set has the woofers and the the 2.5" mid/high speakers. So this seems the best choice. But, will the Kenwood 2.5' speakers fit in the spot where the factory dash speakers are located? I can't tell and Crutchfield doesn't really say. regardless, will just replacing the 6x9's make a big enough difference to justify the $219? Or would I need to replace the dash ones and the door ones to really hear a big difference? Also, now I'm thinking a better amp might be needed as well. And that's a whole other can of worms!
Your front sound stage is going to make the biggest difference (doors and dash) the rears will just be fillers at that point. The biggest problem with the stock radio is the bass roll off that kills any kind of out put. An after market amp and an active line out help fix that. You can add a really good set of components and a good Amp for 1/2 the cost of the Bose and have a way better system. You could do a 4 channel alpine type s amp, type s components up front for less than 500 bucks. Run the components on the front 2 channels and run the Stock rears off the rear channels on the 4 channel amp. Connect in with a lc2i active line out and sub thumb harness.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:05 PM   #25
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Your front sound stage is going to make the biggest difference (doors and dash) the rears will just be fillers at that point. The biggest problem with the stock radio is the bass roll off that kills any kind of out put. An after market amp and an active line out help fix that. You can add a really good set of components and a good Amp for 1/2 the cost of the Bose and have a way better system. You could do a 4 channel alpine type s amp, type s components up front for less than 500 bucks. Run the components on the front 2 channels and run the Stock rears off the rear channels on the 4 channel amp. Connect in with a lc2i active line out and sub thumb harness.
So, if I can't afford all of that at once, what is a good place to start building? Or, should I just start buying pieces and then eventually, once I have all of the components, install all at once? Should I just start with some quality front speakers that can be used with the stock amp, and then later be used with an aftermarket amp?
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by caSStro18 View Post
So, it seems to be getting a little more confusing. From what i understand it would be best to find a component system that includes 6x9's used only for the lows and something else for the mids and highs. Most component systems come with the 6x9 woofers and tweeters. Since the Camaro's dash speakers are the mids and highs, it seems dumb to get tweeters.
You have options here. You can either get 6x9 woofer by themselves if you can find some at a price point that works for you, or you can get a set that includes crossover and true tweeter and just not use those parts, or you could use those parts in place of the stock dash speakers (which again is best done with a pillar mount, although plenty of people put 1" tweeter in the dash locations), or get the Kenwood set that has correct replacement 2.5" dash speakers.

Quote:
It would be better to upgrade the 6x9 door speakers with woofers and then upgrade the dash speakers (mids/highs) as well. The Kenwood set has the woofers and the the 2.5" mid/high speakers. So this seems the best choice. But, will the Kenwood 2.5' speakers fit in the spot where the factory dash speakers are located? I can't tell and Crutchfield doesn't really say.
Yes, they will fit in the factory location and they have mounting tabs that allow you to bolt them right in. That's literally what they are made for. The Audiofrog GS25 is the only other drop-in replacement speaker for our dash that I know of. These are the obvious plug-n-play option that requires no adapters or fabrication for the dash. In fact, the Kenwood comes with a bracket for the door speakers as well. Literally the only thing you'd need with it the wiring harness adapters I mentioned (plus some for the dash speakers, which are only available from LLJ Customs as far as I know).

Quote:
regardless, will just replacing the 6x9's make a big enough difference to justify the $219? Or would I need to replace the dash ones and the door ones to really hear a big difference? Also, now I'm thinking a better amp might be needed as well. And that's a whole other can of worms!
It depends on what "big enough" means for you. Just doing the 6x9s in the door would make the difference you're seeking in bass response. That's where this thread started. The dash speakers will improve the sound quality in the midrange and treble, and will probably increase the treble extension as well (my GS25s certainly did). That was important to me, but that doesn't mean it has to be as important to you. I don't disagree that an amp would improve things further, but I think you should try just the speakers first, given your budget. You will hear a difference, without question. You can always add an amp later...and DSP...and subs. You get the idea.
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:21 PM   #27
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Okay, so I think I’ll order the Kenwoods. I like the idea that I can later add the 2.5” speakers to make yet another improvement when I have the time. So, as far as removing the door panel...easy or difficult? I watched a few YouTube videos and noticed there are two ways to do it. In one of the videos they just pull the top part towards them to unclip it. On another video they lift up and I clip it that way. Is there a preferred way of doing this? I want the easiest, but also the way that is least likely to do any damage.
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Old 07-01-2020, 02:29 PM   #28
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Okay, so I think I’ll order the Kenwoods. I like the idea that I can later add the 2.5” speakers to make yet another improvement when I have the time. So, as far as removing the door panel...easy or difficult? I watched a few YouTube videos and noticed there are two ways to do it. In one of the videos they just pull the top part towards them to unclip it. On another video they lift up and I clip it that way. Is there a preferred way of doing this? I want the easiest, but also the way that is least likely to do any damage.
It takes time, and I hate doing door panels because I'm always afraid I'll tear them up. But it was quite doable. The first one took a fair amount of time. The second one a lot less so. At the top, I lifted up because that was quite a bit easier. Just make sure you have the door panel pulled away from the door a fair amount, because you don't want to break any pins (there's also one permanent pin on the panel you don't want to break). When you do that, the rubber weatherstrip will come out with it.

Once you have it all off, you'll probably find that some of the plastic pins are still in the door instead of the panel. Pull each one out and insert it back in the panel. To reinstall the panel, you'll want to remove the weatherstrip and the six metal clips from the top of the door panel (it's easier now that the panel is off the car). Then install the six metal clips onto the metal door, then put the weatherstrip in the clips. Now's a good time to reinstall the three black push pins into the weatherstrip (because the door panel covers one of them). Finally, you can push the door panel onto the metal clips along with pushing in all the round pins.

When you get the panel off the door, there are one or two electrical connections plus the latch cable to undo. These are not hard, but you have to see what to do. Both electrical connectors have a red or orange tab to pull out first, which unlocks them. Then each has a small tab under the locking tab that you need to depress as you pull the connector apart. As long as you push that second tab down, it's easy to get them apart. The latch cable has a white plastic holder that is clipped to the door panel. Depress the tab on it and the white plastic holder and slide the holder back and off the part it clips to. Then swing the cable 90deg (maybe a little more?), so that the cable is pointing broadside into the door panel. The silver lug at the end of the cable can be removed from its metal lever on the door panel and lifted up, with the cable coming out of a slot in that lever.

Some of the push pins are yellow, some are light gray. It would probably be a good idea to buy a couple of each before you dive into this job, just in case a you break any. I didn't, but doing this on a Saturday I realized that if I did I would not be able to get any replacements until Monday. Also, get a cheap set of trim removal tools. And for the three 7mm screws, you'll need a socket on an extension.
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