[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by 90503

I don't see a unique engine for the Z/28 either....

...Also, I don't think it will be an issue with how expensive or streetable the Z/28 will be...There are enough models including 1LE and ZL-1 to make everybody happy....The Z/28 will be for the track-rat-only buyer....I think it will have an LT-4 with weight, suspension (including tires and wheels), the kitchen sink, all for performance above the ZL-1 and GT-R....

The 1LE is a step up in performance from the SS with the same engine...The Z/28 will be a step up in performance from the ZL-1 with the same engine...

As expensive as it will be anyway, a unique z/28 engine can't be justified for the small amount that will be sold....

P.S. That monster rear wing shown in the spy-pics tells me the engine will be the highest hp and speed available (LT4) and it will be on the lightest weight Camaro (Z/28)....

This certainly makes the most sense, at least from a business standpoint for GM. A lighter, more track equipped ZL1 would certainly not be a bad thing. However, the thing that keeps coming into my head is that there is a large part of the enthusiast crowd wanting N/A powered, track capable cars. GM has to be aware of this.

What they do with this car is anyone's guess. It will really depend on how they want to market it. I see three major directions they might take...

A) A stripped down, track ready ZL1. The LT4 put into the lightest, strongest chassis they can build, with the latest and greatest road hugging technology available. Build only a few hundred of them and sell them for $80K ish.

B) Introduce a head/cam LT1, N/A powered to the tune 525-550hp, and put it in the 1LE set up. Price it out as an engine/suspension package with the intention of making more mainstream than the '14-'15 cars.

C) Put a version of the TTV6 in it to demonstrate what they can do with V6 engines. Again, a dedicated track car, mostly for the purpose of being a halo for V6 technology. IOW low production numbers.

From a cost and CAFE standpoint, option A probably makes the most sense. However, if they really want to go after the GT350 crowd, option B would be the way to go, if they can squeeze it into the CAFE program. Option C is a long shot I think.

The other thing I was thinking about in regards to option B, is what GM wants to do with GM Performance. In seeing how they are offering the Gen 6 with optional aftermarket type parts out of the box, perhaps they are wanting to get some that billion dollar market. A head and cam package for the LT1, suspension parts, cooling packages, all of those things ordered and installed through your dealer. If that's a direction they want to go with performance division, the option B Z/28 might not only sell cars, but performance parts as well.

[RedonBlackRS]

I've gotta go with option B.

It always bugged me how the Z/28 was $75,000, and positioned "above" the ZL1. ZL1 is meant to be the ultimate Camaro, and up until 2012, was regarded as such. And I know the brakes and suspension on the Z/28 were expensive, but I hat the Porsche idea of "less stuff costs more". The Z/28 could've easily been sold at $55,000, still been profitable for GM, and not have the legacy of hundreds of 2015 models languishing on dealer lots around the country.

What you're proposing as a kind of Super1LE at around $55,000 is perfect, accessible for old Z/28 fans, and leaves the ZL1 feeling as premium as it should.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

I've gotta go with option B.

It always bugged me how the Z/28 was $75,000, and positioned "above" the ZL1. ZL1 is meant to be the ultimate Camaro, and up until 2012, was regarded as such. And I know the brakes and suspension on the Z/28 were expensive, but I hat the Porsche idea of "less stuff costs more". The Z/28 could've easily been sold at $55,000, still been profitable for GM, and not have the legacy of hundreds of 2015 models languishing on dealer lots around the country.

What you're proposing as a kind of Super1LE at around $55,000 is perfect, accessible for old Z/28 fans, and leaves the ZL1 feeling as premium as it should.

The ZL1 was never a production Camaro until the 5th gen.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

I've gotta go with option B.

It always bugged me how the Z/28 was $75,000, and positioned "above" the ZL1. ZL1 is meant to be the ultimate Camaro, and up until 2012, was regarded as such. And I know the brakes and suspension on the Z/28 were expensive, but I hat the Porsche idea of "less stuff costs more". The Z/28 could've easily been sold at $55,000, still been profitable for GM, and not have the legacy of hundreds of 2015 models languishing on dealer lots around the country.

What you're proposing as a kind of Super1LE at around $55,000 is perfect, accessible for old Z/28 fans, and leaves the ZL1 feeling as premium as it should.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The ZL1 was never a production Camaro until the 5th gen.

Yes, it was an engine (a very expensive engine) not even a car or model, an engine. A couple even found their way into Corvettes.

GM will follow the same basic recipe as the 5Gen. However they may limit the volume to control sales and pricing.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Yes, it was an engine (a very expensive engine) not even a car or model, an engine. A couple even found their way into Corvettes.

GM will follow the same basic recipe as the 5Gen. However they may limit the volume to control sales and pricing.

Yes, and engine who's sole purpose in life was to hand it to the Hemi powered Mopars of the day ruling the Super Stock classes at the drag strip. In order for them to race this engine, it had to be available for production cars. So they created a secret little box to be checked on order forms, and really hoped you didn't check it. I believe there were a grand total of 69 people that did. GM did the same thing with the L88 in the Corvette. Both of these cars can now be had for the price of a really, really, nice house.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The ZL1 was never a production Camaro until the 5th gen.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Yes, it was an engine (a very expensive engine) not even a car or model, an engine. A couple even found their way into Corvettes.

They built a few 4th gens with the name using LS6s...but otherwise, agreed..."ZL1" was never a regular-production Camaro until 2012.

[RedonBlackRS]

I totally get that it wasn't a model, but the Camaros equipped with the ZL1 (all 69 of them and the 2 Corvettes) were the top dogs power-and-speed-wise.
My apologies, I should've explained that better.
Or, perhaps GM shouldn't have used the ZL1 moniker if there would eventually be a "superior" car, especially considering that the ZL1-equipped Corvettes were positioned above the ZR1s, and then a ZL1-named car comes out with a ZR1-lite engine...
Sorry for rambling, but little stuff like that just bugs me

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

I totally get that it wasn't a model, but the Camaros equipped with the ZL1 (all 69 of them and the 2 Corvettes) were the top dogs power-and-speed-wise.
My apologies, I should've explained that better.
Or, perhaps GM shouldn't have used the ZL1 moniker if there would eventually be a "superior" car, especially considering that the ZL1-equipped Corvettes were positioned above the ZR1s, and then a ZL1-named car comes out with a ZR1-lite engine...
Sorry for rambling, but little stuff like that just bugs me

Well...superior at what?

Because the ZL1 and Z/28 are on different ends of the Camaro spectrum.

The ZL1 is the best do-it-all Camaro, hands down.

The Z/28 is superior only in a track environment.

[Nataphen]

Thought that was the only relevant environment. You mean, some of you guys here care about comfort? Crazy.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Yes, and engine who's sole purpose in life was to hand it to the Hemi powered Mopars of the day ruling the Super Stock classes at the drag strip. In order for them to race this engine, it had to be available for production cars. So they created a secret little box to be checked on order forms, and really hoped you didn't check it. I believe there were a grand total of 69 people that did. GM did the same thing with the L88 in the Corvette. Both of these cars can now be had for the price of a really, really, nice house.

Actually yes it was to race, however not drag racing at first it was for Can-Am. Dealers who drag raced found a way to order it for the COPO Camaro's for drag racing...Grumpy Jenkins used it as well in his "toys".

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

I totally get that it wasn't a model, but the Camaros equipped with the ZL1 (all 69 of them and the 2 Corvettes) were the top dogs power-and-speed-wise.
My apologies, I should've explained that better.
Or, perhaps GM shouldn't have used the ZL1 moniker if there would eventually be a "superior" car, especially considering that the ZL1-equipped Corvettes were positioned above the ZR1s, and then a ZL1-named car comes out with a ZR1-lite engine...
Sorry for rambling, but little stuff like that just bugs me

I understand. What about the new Z06 being above the Grand Sport? BTW, the ZL1 then and now are still the most powerful Camaro's. The Z/28 then and now are the most track worthy. Then the kicker in 1969 they made a ZL1-Z/28.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Yes, and engine who's sole purpose in life was to hand it to the Hemi powered Mopars of the day ruling the Super Stock classes at the drag strip. In order for them to race this engine, it had to be available for production cars. So they created a secret little box to be checked on order forms, and really hoped you didn't check it. I believe there were a grand total of 69 people that did. GM did the same thing with the L88 in the Corvette. Both of these cars can now be had for the price of a really, really, nice house.

It was built for Can Am racing, not drag racing. The cars that came with the ZL1 engine were not supposed to be built. The dealers found a backdoor way to modify cars outside of the standard ordering method. The engine itself was more than the Camaro it came in and caused the cars to sit on the lot for a long time.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It was built for Can Am racing, not drag racing. The cars that came with the ZL1 engine were not supposed to be built. The dealers found a backdoor way to modify cars outside of the standard ordering method. The engine itself was more than the Camaro it came in and caused the cars to sit on the lot for a long time.

Yes Fred Gibb Chevrolet in IL.

[RedonBlackRS]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I understand. What about the new Z06 being above the Grand Sport? BTW, the ZL1 then and now are still the most powerful Camaro's. The Z/28 then and now are the most track worthy. Then the kicker in 1969 they made a ZL1-Z/28.

Hmmm... I didn't know about the ZL-1 Z/28. Cool!
And yes, I feel the Grand Sport name lost some luster after the limited-run LT4 C4s, and would make more sense as a limited-run Z06 option as in "Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Grand Sport"
And when I said "superior", I meant as in priced above the ZL1, especially considering it didn't need to be.