[SpeedIsLife]

LT's, Tunes, Intakes, E85, Intake Manifolds, Halfshafts,Gears, etc..is not "heavily modified"

Add in cams, etc...then you're getting closer.

Built motors, strokers, custom FI, etc..that's heavily modified.

[FastCarFanBoy]

y'all are delusional. stop trying to rewrite the rule book...if it isn't an internal mod or power adder its a bolt-on . if you need guidance see your own fast lists.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

LT's, Tunes, Intakes, E85, Intake Manifolds, Halfshafts,Gears, etc..is not "heavily modified"

Add in cams, etc...then you're getting closer.

Built motors, strokers, custom FI, etc..that's heavily modified.

And it isn't "simple bolt-ons" either. If you've got all that done along with boost then you've drastically changed the performance characteristics of the damn car. Fools out here doing enough mods to drop 2 or more seconds off a car and spending thousands of dollars..."simple bolt-ons my ass. If you did one or two of those things then I can agree. But when you've got every bolt on including forced induction and an entire fuel system and the only thing NOT done is cams and ported heads then you're definitely heavily modded performance-wise. And if you're modded enough that you can beat cars that cost twice as much and have almost twice as much RWHP stock to stock then that is heavy modification.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

y'all are delusional. stop trying to rewrite the rule book...if it isn't an internal mod or power adder its a bolt-on . if you need guidance see your own fast lists.

If anything it seems you guys are trying to re-write the rule book. You guys need extensive mods to hang with the competition but you don't wanna admit it. Or you want it to look like the car doesn't need as much help as it does. You guys are trying to hang with cars that are stock and on a higher level so you wanna sit here acting like "oh I don't need to buy this or that because my $30K GT with simple mods can beat $70K cars" as justification or so you can pretend like your GT is on par with higher performance cars and it's really pathetic. I see you guys doing it all the time and several of them from M6G came here with that shit.

[crysalis_01]

So, why all the fervor about "mod honesty"? Seems like a waste of energy to care. You want to have the faster car, then do it. Have the faster car then it doesn't matter who's disclosing what. Someone can lie all they want, it doesnt mean anything if they cross the finishline after you.

Or. . . just enjoy your car and don't worry about how it compares to a car that isn't yours, cost you no money, and doesn't mean anything at the end of the day.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, why all the fervor about "mod honesty"? Seems like a waste of energy to care. You want to have the faster car, then do it. Have the faster car then it doesn't matter who's disclosing what. Someone can lie all they want, it doesnt mean anything if they cross the finishline after you.

Or. . . just enjoy your car and don't worry about how it compares to a car that isn't yours, cost you no money, and doesn't mean anything at the end of the day.

I care because this happens to be a hobby that I enjoy and I'd rather not see it diminished or ruined by some little lying punks. Why do you not care? This type of nonsense makes the sport look bad.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I care because this happens to be a hobby that I enjoy and I'd rather not see it diminished or ruined by some little lying punks. Why do you not care? This type of nonsense makes the sport look bad.

If this is how you really feel then you're not even playing the same "sport".

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, why all the fervor about "mod honesty"? Seems like a waste of energy to care. You want to have the faster car, then do it. Have the faster car then it doesn't matter who's disclosing what. Someone can lie all they want, it doesnt mean anything if they cross the finishline after you.

Or. . . just enjoy your car and don't worry about how it compares to a car that isn't yours, cost you no money, and doesn't mean anything at the end of the day.

This, but here is where the game has changed as time has gone on....

back when I was in my late teens and 20's you really only had a few things to care about like Big Block vs Small Block, roller cams, big tire car, nitrous. Nobody worried about whether the passenger seat was out or what was done to the suspension. Because the playing field was fairly level inside those basic parameters. Race motors were making 5-600hp at the crank n/a and nobody ran blowers/turbos until the GN's hit the scene

As time has gone on power has become so easy to make that now its just how fast do you want to spend? couple that with the complexity of modern engines and electronics which has taken away alot of the shade tree modding and now people are forced to break everything down into mod for mod so they can feel they are competitive.

Internet racing amplifies it because you arent on the spot and dont have to race and face losing. If you lose at the track or on the street, nobody cares what your excuse is... you got beat.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

This, but here is where the game has changed as time has gone on....

back when I was in my late teens and 20's you really only had a few things to care about like Big Block vs Small Block, roller cams, big tire car, nitrous. Nobody worried about whether the passenger seat was out or what was done to the suspension. Because the playing field was fairly level inside those basic parameters. Race motors were making 5-600hp at the crank n/a and nobody ran blowers/turbos until the GN's hit the scene

As time has gone on power has become so easy to make that now its just how fast do you want to spend? couple that with the complexity of modern engines and electronics which has taken away alot of the shade tree modding and now people are forced to break everything down into mod for mod so they can feel they are competitive.

Internet racing amplifies it because you arent on the spot and dont have to race and face losing. If you lose at the track or on the street, nobody cares what your excuse is... you got beat.

agree. IMO, once it’s modified it only a matter of who goes further $$$ and what you can live with in terms of destroying the cars OE balance. High 11s to low 12s with a warranty and manors you can live with daily is fine with me. I’m much more interested in how complete the cars comes stock.

[ULTRAZLS1]

It’s all about what you can do 3 mod br0

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

If this is how you really feel then you're not even playing the same "sport".

I have no idea what you're even talking about. I don't know what kind of shady liars you associated with. Or what kind of people you've met who blatantly lied about what they've done to the car. But that was something that only the Import guys did up until recently as far as I know. Or who knows, maybe the Mustang crowd has always been like this. But back when I was younger (not that I'm old), people had a level of respect and honesty when it came to racing. Unless it was "run what you brung" in which case you could have a 700 hp car against a 200 hp car which makes no damn sense anyway, people talked about their mods and how much power they made. If anything people talked up their numbers. There certainly wasn't this level of pervasive downplay like you're trying to make it out to be. The only people who did that were those who either wanted to make themselves and their car look better and/or those who wanted an easy win. So they'd come out whit "oh I just have simple bolt-ons" and they'd look to race those who really did have simple bolt-ons so they could win and make themselves look better. Those kids made bad names for themselves in the groups I was in. Considering how much you're sticking up for these kids I would assume that if you've been involved in Mustangs for a long time then this was pretty much the norm with them.

Speaking for myself, If I'm gonna race someone, I'm honest about what is done to my car. I have stuff that is hidden (like ported TBs) and stuff that I don't think does much for acceleration (like throttle controllers). But I don't feel I have to lie or withhold that info. While it apparently is normal to be deceitful over in the Mustang world, over here we mention all of our mods. And we know enough about our cars that we know when someone is bullshitting anyway. So don't talk over here like I'm the one who's mixed up. Anyone who has to lie about what they've done to their car is pretty much a douchebag.

[LS6-M22]

Most people lie about mods. Some more then whats even believable. One guy over on M6G claims to run 11.3s @125 with simple boltons. S550 5.0 with an intake,midpipe and tune. Manual MT-82 no less. I say at least try to make it believable

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I care because this happens to be a hobby that I enjoy and I'd rather not see it diminished or ruined by some little lying punks. Why do you not care? This type of nonsense makes the sport look bad.

Why don't I care? Bacause what modding the guy lined up beside me has done, or not done, doesn't affect how much I enjoy running my car.

We'll race and either I'll win or the other driver will win. That doesn't diminish one bit the excitement of making the run in the first place. When the times get come up on the board, if I won...cool. If I lost...ok, I guess if I want to win, I'll make improvements. What the other guy has done isn't apart of the equation of if I'm satisfied with my car's performance or not.

Why do you seem to put so much more stock into how your car compares to the next guy's vs how much you have fun driving and improving it? You said It's a sport, you're supposed to enjoy those, not get all bent out of shape over them.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I have no idea what you're even talking about. I don't know what kind of shady liars you associated with. Or what kind of people you've met who blatantly lied about what they've done to the car. But that was something that only the Import guys did up until recently as far as I know. Or who knows, maybe the Mustang crowd has always been like this. But back when I was younger (not that I'm old), people had a level of respect and honesty when it came to racing. Unless it was "run what you brung" in which case you could have a 700 hp car against a 200 hp car which makes no damn sense anyway, people talked about their mods and how much power they made. If anything people talked up their numbers. There certainly wasn't this level of pervasive downplay like you're trying to make it out to be. The only people who did that were those who either wanted to make themselves and their car look better and/or those who wanted an easy win. So they'd come out whit "oh I just have simple bolt-ons" and they'd look to race those who really did have simple bolt-ons so they could win and make themselves look better. Those kids made bad names for themselves in the groups I was in. Considering how much you're sticking up for these kids I would assume that if you've been involved in Mustangs for a long time then this was pretty much the norm with them.

Speaking for myself, If I'm gonna race someone, I'm honest about what is done to my car. I have stuff that is hidden (like ported TBs) and stuff that I don't think does much for acceleration (like throttle controllers). But I don't feel I have to lie or withhold that info. While it apparently is normal to be deceitful over in the Mustang world, over here we mention all of our mods. And we know enough about our cars that we know when someone is bullshitting anyway. So don't talk over here like I'm the one who's mixed up. Anyone who has to lie about what they've done to their car is pretty much a douchebag.

It's got nothing to do with any brand of car. I gave up street racing long ago because I grew up and had a family and legal troubles suck. When I started street racing in the mid 80's Fox bodies were just starting to hit the scene, I sold my 73 Mach1 and bought a 85'GT in '86. My friends all had old school Muscle Cars and everyone in the scene lied or was deceptive with what they had . Even friends If they built a new motor they would hide as many details as they possible could. if it was a Big Block of course it was a " mild 396". It was part of the game, you either assumed you were being lied to, trained your eyes to know what to look for or somebody slipped up and let the truth out.

There is much more honesty these days because there are much fewer potential variation to begin with. everyone has the same bolt-ons. Most people are running factory displacement and almost nobody has cams. so now people whine about axles, driveshafts and OPG's. If you complained about a guy not disclosing a HV oil pump or a heavy duty oil pump drive shaft on a motor in the 80's you'd get laughed off the street.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Why don't I care? Bacause what modding the guy lined up beside me has done, or not done, doesn't affect how much I enjoy running my car.

We'll race and either I'll win or the other driver will win. That doesn't diminish one bit the excitement of making the run in the first place. When the times get come up on the board, if I won...cool. If I lost...ok, I guess if I want to win, I'll make improvements. What the other guy has done isn't apart of the equation of if I'm satisfied with my car's performance or not.

Why do you seem to put so much more stock into how your car compares to the next guy's vs how much you have fun driving and improving it? You said It's a sport, you're supposed to enjoy those, not get all bent out of shape over them.

Who says I'm putting stock into it? it's a conversation. I made a point, you questioned it, and here we are. Stop trying to make it out to be any more than that. For the record, do you really think I care how someone else's car stacks up to mine? But in any case, why are you defending people being dishonest about their mods and trying to mislead people? If you're ok with it then good for you. I'm not ok with it so I brought it up. And when I see it I call bullshit on it. If you wanna keep your mods to yourself then fine. But when you straight up lie with the intention to make yourself look better then that is different.

And for the record, it seems that all the Mustang guys are defending this type of behavior while those of us on the Camaro side are discouraging and ridiculing it. That says a lot about mentality here vs them over there. Let me ask you, what legit reason would you have to hide mods? The only reason a person would do that is because they're trying to race cars that they know are slower and are downplaying their mods because they know they'll win. And it is Mustang guys doing it. Which says a lot about their character. Especially since you're the only ones sticking up for that type of nonsense.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

It's got nothing to do with any brand of car. I gave up street racing long ago because I grew up and had a family and legal troubles suck. When I started street racing in the mid 80's Fox bodies were just starting to hit the scene, I sold my 73 Mach1 and bought a 85'GT in '86. My friends all had old school Muscle Cars and everyone in the scene lied or was deceptive with what they had . Even friends If they built a new motor they would hide as many details as they possible could. if it was a Big Block of course it was a " mild 396". It was part of the game, you either assumed you were being lied to, trained your eyes to know what to look for or somebody slipped up and let the truth out.

There is much more honesty these days because there are much fewer potential variation to begin with. everyone has the same bolt-ons. Most people are running factory displacement and almost nobody has cams. so now people whine about axles, driveshafts and OPG's. If you complained about a guy not disclosing a HV oil pump or a heavy duty oil pump drive shaft on a motor in the 80's you'd get laughed off the street.

Like I said, I've always seen the opposite. People did not hide mods or lie about them from what I've seen. If you were at a meet or on the strip or about to race someone and asked then what they did to their car they'd run off an entire list of mods. It was far different from what it is now.