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Old 03-06-2020, 11:55 PM   #1
Dvs510
 
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Modified stock air box?... y?

Curious y people r modifying the stock air box and cutting a slot in the bottom?.... I get that it “may” let more air in a lil quicker, but it’s gonna be hot air from around the engine and that defeats the whole purpose of “cold air”... so what am I missing here?
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Old 03-07-2020, 04:21 AM   #2
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useless mod they brag about at the local QuikTrip. About as useful as a CAI itself. Does nothing at all on these cars.
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Old 03-07-2020, 08:14 AM   #3
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Rotofab dry has proven to knock a tenth off 1/4 mil times on a bone stock car. And the gains go up as you mod up.
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Old 03-09-2020, 01:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnAY View Post
useless mod they brag about at the local QuikTrip. About as useful as a CAI itself. Does nothing at all on these cars.
Why do you say that, on a stock car and stock tune it doesn't do much but even then they have still there is data and are proven to show results. Rotofabs reputation speaks for itself and CAI has a video of before and after track runs where the car ran a tenth or so faster consistently.

As KingLT1 mentioned, with mods the benefit of the cai is exponential.
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:32 PM   #5
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Don’t think it going to be “hot”. It is very close to the front wheel liner.
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Old 03-09-2020, 03:25 PM   #6
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I was at local dyno day many years ago and they had a 4th gen on it with jury rigged home depot PVC intake and a K&N filter. This 16 year old kid built it himself and we were all rolling our eyes. Per the kid, the car made 1 less HP with the intake than it did a few months earlier. Imagine all the variables involved, right!? ...Operator says "how fast was the cooling fan in front of the car blowing?" I kinda perked up and thought WTF!!!??? Kid had no idea. Guy said his shop tries not to "overcool" the air, so as to give accurate readings, and that the other dyno probably overcooled the engine to get better numbers. It made this kids day. Skeptical, I asked the operator if that was really a thing. He laughed and said no, but it made that kids day and that in 10 years that kid would be building custom engines or tuning record setting drag cars, so he just helps to keep the dream alive when he can. I've never forgotten that.



Some of these mods work. Some don't. It's all hotrodding, and we all start somewhere.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:39 AM   #7
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This thread suggests it is worth a few hp, at least on the dyno. I don’t think the air going into the motor will be any warmer. The hole is pointed right into the fender area.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=Air+box
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:50 AM   #8
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I can always tell who the uninformed are, always the ones regurgitating that a "CAI does nothing" info.

From me working with GM over the years and in consumer product testing with them, I cam tell you this. GM leaves some on the table in terms of performance. They have t design a system that is damn near idiot proof and that meets the powertrain specs and certifications.

With that, the RF CAI and for that matter any reputable company that takes the time to design, engineer and build the product will be able to produce gains over the stock airbox system. GM has to build the system to meet Federal/State/City NVH requirements, the aftermarket industry doesnt.

Any mod that allows more airflow to be pulled into the TB with less restriction will allow power to be more efficiently made versus the stock setup. That includes cuttings openings in the stock airbox, putting in larger filters or going with an open airbox with a really large filter.

Also while the dyno is a tool, dyno runs are not always real world realistic. Once a vehicle gets moving any heatsoak is cooled off and gets close to ambient. When people see where Procharger puts the airfilter in my car they always say it must run stupid hot and not make any power, and yet once I am moving my IAT temps are maybe 20° higher than the actual outside temps.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:56 AM   #9
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This topic has also been beat to death on M6g. Especially on the Gen.3 coyote. The stock 18 and up cai are suppose to be so good, that some of the 15-17 guys are upgrading to it. Alot of the debate falls on the intake temps. I had an 18 with a very popular "CAI". For the most part, especially in the summer, my temps stayed significantly higher than the factory box.

Some of the impact here is the kind of driving you do on a daily basis. If you, (like me) spend more time in stop and go/slower traffic then your intake temps will stay higher. Then there is the debate about heat soak and how long its effect last, which I assume will be directly related to how long it absorbs the higher temps. For me, there was a 50+ degree difference in intake temp between the factory box and the "CAI". Yes, after a a short bit of driving, the temps did eventually fall back down to close to ambient but just because the IAT is seeing cooler air, does this mean that the "heat soak" isn't still having an effect as the air is traveling to the combustion chamber?

The car felt more sluggish at low speed with the aftermarket "CAI". So while I'm sure at upper rpm's the additional flow was worth something, pending your engines air volume needs based on mods and overall daily driving scenario, It didn't seem like it was worth the trade off at lower engine speeds and higher intake temps. Perhaps it was all in my head but the lower engine speed throttle response was much better when I put the stock stuff back on. BUT, then again, I'm talking about a completely different car here.

Please feel free to correct any errors in my thought.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:28 PM   #10
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Cut slot pointed out toward the left front fender (I did this 3.5 years ago), A piece of weather stripping and a green filter ducts air off the wheel liner.

That said air temp and its effects via the gas law is taken from absolute ZERO which is -460 degrees, so you may want to put your "hot air" into perspective. No I'm not advocating for a hot air induction. I'm just pointing out the gas law and thermal expansion.

The factory and most mods are CAI when there is forward progress with the car, I don't buy I'm in work traffic and response is off and so is power, OK, are you drag racing for .1 seconds in work traffic? Any forward progress puts outside air into the box stock or modded. As already stated it took 5 minutes and weather stripping for me to seal my stock box to the front frame rail. It would not be crazy difficult to weather strip the cut bottom boxes that are popular now.

I do like the removal of the front OEM weather protection strip, I do like the "big mouth"
https://www.velossatechdesign.com/pr...intake-snorkel

Probably one or both mods would work with OEM box, modded OEM box, and aftermarket CAI.

For CAI, I've tried the GM CAI and the Mishimoto, maybe there is something there but it was not measurable with my GTech. I'd probably buy a roto fab dry second hand if I want back to NA just for grins. Personal choice for sure. So once again, me a GTech and stock box, mod box, GM CAI and Mishimoto.. um not really measurable real world on the street. i.e. other road and climate conditions out weight any gains or losses. I do have to buy a new GTech (my output is broken). I do buy that a rotofab same day race adds .1, I don't know if this is an average gain or just that day and combination. It is a valid data point and I know of no other CAI that has done the same thing. You would think they would support a member here with a fee one for same day back to back testing? Dunno. So I give Rotofab cred for it (not implying that Rotofab supported the testing in anyway, I don't know).
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvs510 View Post
Curious y people r modifying the stock air box and cutting a slot in the bottom?.... I get that it “may” let more air in a lil quicker, but it’s gonna be hot air from around the engine and that defeats the whole purpose of “cold air”... so what am I missing here?
I think guys are looking at this the wrong way. People want to do upgrades themselves to their car. Sometimes guys can't afford the way over priced mods and there ingenuity kicks in. A lot of upgrades came from this ingenuity. Guys shouldn't roll their eyes, encourage them.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
Cut slot pointed out toward the left front fender (I did this 3.5 years ago), A piece of weather stripping and a green filter ducts air off the wheel liner.

That said air temp and its effects via the gas law is taken from absolute ZERO which is -460 degrees, so you may want to put your "hot air" into perspective. No I'm not advocating for a hot air induction. I'm just pointing out the gas law and thermal expansion.

The factory and most mods are CAI when there is forward progress with the car, I don't buy I'm in work traffic and response is off and so is power, OK, are you drag racing for .1 seconds in work traffic? Any forward progress puts outside air into the box stock or modded. As already stated it took 5 minutes and weather stripping for me to seal my stock box to the front frame rail. It would not be crazy difficult to weather strip the cut bottom boxes that are popular now.

I do like the removal of the front OEM weather protection strip, I do like the "big mouth"
https://www.velossatechdesign.com/pr...intake-snorkel

Probably one or both mods would work with OEM box, modded OEM box, and aftermarket CAI.

For CAI, I've tried the GM CAI and the Mishimoto, maybe there is something there but it was not measurable with my GTech. I'd probably buy a roto fab dry second hand if I want back to NA just for grins. Personal choice for sure. So once again, me a GTech and stock box, mod box, GM CAI and Mishimoto.. um not really measurable real world on the street. i.e. other road and climate conditions out weight any gains or losses. I do have to buy a new GTech (my output is broken). I do buy that a rotofab same day race adds .1, I don't know if this is an average gain or just that day and combination. It is a valid data point and I know of no other CAI that has done the same thing. You would think they would support a member here with a fee one for same day back to back testing? Dunno. So I give Rotofab cred for it (not implying that Rotofab supported the testing in anyway, I don't know).
With no data other than SOTP, I have no way to quantify my experience. Perhaps it wasn't the "hot" air then but a different factor at work. The more I read here, the more I realize I just need to be quiet.
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:09 PM   #13
oldman


 
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SOTP was used long before people learned to race dyno numbers. With any forward motion there is no "hot air". A dyno can't demonstrate how a CAI or any induction will work in the real world. Now to bumper to bumper traffic and hot air induction, say the air is 30 degrees more, I doubt it as ANY forward progress brings new air into the box which sits at the very front of the engine compartment. But lets us 30 degrees hotter so 110 degrees vs 80 for a CAI. But wait the gas law as based on absolute zero so that is 600 degrees vs 570 degrees or 5% less air mass. IMO there is no possible way a human can judge that. Considering we are talking bumper to bumper traffic and the throttle body is only open mabye 5 to degrees i.e. restricting say 90% of the air flow. 5% of 5 degrees is so miniscule a human can't feel or judge it.

but back to you, what cai are you running and what data do you have to show a 50 degree change with normal travel down the road even stop and go? Just wondering where the 50 degree hotter number comes from. My slot as Parish has posted is on the edge above the wheel liner. I have used two CAI and have seen most.
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2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.

Last edited by oldman; 03-27-2020 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
SOTP was used long before people learned to race dyno numbers. With any forward motion there is no "hot air". A dyno can't demonstrate how a CAI or any induction will work in the real world.
So is it appropriate to say "warmer" air is less oxygen dense than "cooler" air? Assuming of coarse that the oxygen density is the drawback to "warmer" air. But then the question would be is there a significant enough oxygen density loss between 95* and 150* that it would actually impact power output. I imagine that there would be to some "degree". Ha. Sorry Oldman, I barely graduated high school.
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