Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > 6th gen Camaro vs...


Phastek Performance


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2022, 08:58 PM   #29
wakespeak

 
wakespeak's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochoidal View Post
This overlay really shows the similarities. The flat front end is prominent here too.

https://www.lsxmag.com/news/if-imita...tang-nailed-it
There is still too much front overhang. It's just not needed, probably exaggerates understeer.
__________________
2020 ZL1 1LE [Moroso SC Expansion Tank, otherwise stock]
wakespeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2022, 12:07 PM   #30
Idaho2018GTPremium

 
Idaho2018GTPremium's Avatar
 
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakespeak View Post
There is still too much front overhang. It's just not needed, probably exaggerates understeer.
There’s definitely some similarities and similar lines, but overhang is not one of them. The front overhang on the Mustang is almost of FWD chassis proportions. I noticed that in the camouflaged spy shots, it really hurts the overall look of the car.
__________________
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0

Past:
2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10
2007 MazdaSpeed3
1995 Pontiac Trans Am
1987 Camaro Z28

Idaho2018GTPremium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2022, 08:03 AM   #31
Camaro fanboy

 
Camaro fanboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 2SS Arctic blue fully loaded
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 880
this ford thing has ans550 suspension and chassis.
AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE.
__________________
Camaro fanboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2022, 09:36 AM   #32
crysalis_01
Iron fist, lead foot
 
crysalis_01's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro fanboy View Post
this ford thing has ans550 suspension and chassis.
AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE.
Given GT350, GT500, and Mach1 Ford has proven that they can indeed provide a fantastic and quite capable track performer even out of the compromise of a chassis that is S550. Most arguments against them are with the cost not the capability; especially when in comparison to Camaro.

However, with Camaro departing we'll soon see how Ford has chosen make changes to S550 to make S650 largely in a vacuum, as they can only really consider M2, Supra, and maybe 400z. Of which none of their cost to performance ratios are any better than Mustang's.
__________________
'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
crysalis_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2022, 09:38 AM   #33
Camaro fanboy

 
Camaro fanboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 2SS Arctic blue fully loaded
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 880
i'm talking about daily driving dude not racing.
the s550 is a pile of excrement. not a single thing is any good. in fact the opposite.
they drive like a car from the 1980's.
__________________
Camaro fanboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2022, 02:23 PM   #34
Jus Cruisin
Old Gearhead
 
Jus Cruisin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: MI
Posts: 546
This is what the Ford Mustang GT500 guys are saying about the new Mustang similarities to the Camaro. They are saying the Camaro copied the 70 Mustang.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2023 Camaro ZL1 convertible - black - SOLD
2023 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate - black
Jus Cruisin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2022, 08:26 AM   #35
crysalis_01
Iron fist, lead foot
 
crysalis_01's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro fanboy View Post
i'm talking about daily driving dude not racing.
the s550 is a pile of excrement. not a single thing is any good. in fact the opposite.
they drive like a car from the 1980's.
Are you implying that road course/track performance metrics in no way translate to daily driving?
I doubt I would be alone in arguing that a car that's designed to have better road course performance will have better performance in general. The only real concern is if they go "too far" and make the ride so stiff and harsh that is makes it so uncomfortable that no matter how good it handles people don't buy it.
S550 was indeed a compromise one where it's engineers, like Mustang's engineers all along, try to walk a line between performance car for the enthusiast and performance car for the masses. The masses want soft and pliable with a sporty look. The enthusiast want taught and athletic, with the performance to back up the look. Sadly the masses tend to win out, but from a business perspective that makes sense.
S650, though simply and evolution of S550, has a chance to take from what eventually proved to work for the previous platform. The Shelby cars and Mach1 prove that it could indeed be made to be a competent, well handling, honest to goodness performer. It's really up to how far the current engineers wanted to, and we're allowed, to go
__________________
'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
crysalis_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2022, 09:06 AM   #36
ALMN
 
ALMN's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS 1LE M6, Palisade Calligraphy
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 177
Power numbers for the new mustang have been out for a while now. The cars gained upper rpm hp with the sacrifice of torque. I m guessing Ford used some lessons learned from their cobra jet intake manifold with dual throttle body design. However, the cars might feel even more sluggish down low. If we assume the weight figures are also going up, you have to keep the rpms high to be in the powerband. Gearing is going to play a very significant role here as well. The manual transmission cars are going to suffer more and need the 10 speed auto for the best results. Let’s wait and see what happens.
ALMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2022, 10:48 AM   #37
crysalis_01
Iron fist, lead foot
 
crysalis_01's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMN View Post
Power numbers for the new mustang have been out for a while now. The cars gained upper rpm hp with the sacrifice of torque. I m guessing Ford used some lessons learned from their cobra jet intake manifold with dual throttle body design. However, the cars might feel even more sluggish down low. If we assume the weight figures are also going up, you have to keep the rpms high to be in the powerband. Gearing is going to play a very significant role here as well. The manual transmission cars are going to suffer more and need the 10 speed auto for the best results. Let’s wait and see what happens.
I can't help but be underwhelmed by the new MPC 2.3. 315/350 isn't bad by any means especially if longevity and fuel efficiency go up. I guess I was just hoping to see at least the current EB-HPP's 332/350 become the new base level.

As for the gen4 Coyote 480(486)/415(418) isn't terrible either. Good to see them get back a lot of what was lost to new emission standards in 2022. Too bad they weren't able to get back to the 2021's 420 lb-ft of torque. Maybe the new intake shifted where the peak is so the number is lower but comes in earlier or lasts longer? The current Mustang 5.0 torque peak isn't until around 4600rpm while the F150's 5.0 makes it's 410 lb-ft at 4250rpm. So, it is possible to bring that available torque on earlier. Of course in F150 they do so at the cost of peak HP numbers, so who knows.

Weight? Yeah hopefully that gain is kept to a minimum. I don't know what else that would have added that would cause significant weight increases though. Ford released a preliminary tech spec sheet that shows the EB only gains 1lb while the GT is identical in weight vs the 2022 model year.
__________________
'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
crysalis_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 11:45 AM   #38
crysalis_01
Iron fist, lead foot
 
crysalis_01's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,227
More and more info is slowly coming out.


Pricing for 2024 Mustang Dark Horse is out. Here it is vs Mach 1:


Equipment Group/Option | 2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse | 2023 Ford Mustang Mach 1 | +/–

Base price ...................... $57,970 ................................. $56,570 ......................... +$1400

700A ............................ $2,595 ................................... $2,095 ............................ +$500

Appearance Package ....... $1,250 ................................... $1,250 ............................ $0

Handling Package ........... $4,500 ................................... $4,500 ............................ $0

Recaro Seats .................. $1,650 ................................... $1,650 ............................ $0

10-speed automatic ........ $1,595 ................................... $1,595 ............................ $0

Carbon Fiber Wheels ...... $8,495 ................................... -------- ....................... ----





I suppose a $12,995 ask for the carbon fiber wheels and handling package is less than the GT500's $18,500 CFTP option and matches the 2020 GT350's R package. Then adding in another $1650 for Recaros... it's a big ask.



I cant help but think a combination of Ford knowing that no matter how they price it, it'll sell; added to the knowledge that sooner than later Mustang will be the only player left on the field. The later is quite predatory, but that's business, I suppose.



To the question of performance, with Mach 1 already giving GT350-ish performance, when equipped properly anyway, Dark Horse had at least be putting up GT350R numbers, when similarly equipped thereto.



I really hope that, the post 6th gen Camaro, Mustang doesn't fall into the same performance stagnation that happened in the early S197 ('05-'10) era.
__________________
'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
crysalis_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 01:38 PM   #39
m6-lt1

 
m6-lt1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysalis_01 View Post
I really hope that, the post 6th gen Camaro, Mustang doesn't fall into the same performance stagnation that happened in the early S197 ('05-'10) era.
As a huge mustang fan that era really annoyed me (former early s197 owner). While the build quality went up versus the sn-95, the performance in a straight line barely did which was annoying. A 2002 camaro SS/trans am should not have been faster than a 2005-2010 mustang gt. Instead of the 3 valve they should have put the 4.6 4 valve out of the Mach 1. That motor was underrated and made more like 335 crank hp. It also pulled much better up top. I bet if they had just worked on updating that motor it could have put out roughly 350 crank hp. Ford should have done that and spent more time refining their VVT tech since they prematurely released it (cam phaser issues).
m6-lt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 03:54 PM   #40
302crossram

 
302crossram's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 Sharkskin 2SS
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: NWFL
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by m6-lt1 View Post
As a huge mustang fan that era really annoyed me (former early s197 owner). While the build quality went up versus the sn-95, the performance in a straight line barely did which was annoying. A 2002 camaro SS/trans am should not have been faster than a 2005-2010 mustang gt. Instead of the 3 valve they should have put the 4.6 4 valve out of the Mach 1. That motor was underrated and made more like 335 crank hp. It also pulled much better up top. I bet if they had just worked on updating that motor it could have put out roughly 350 crank hp. Ford should have done that and spent more time refining their VVT tech since they prematurely released it (cam phaser issues).
100%

I brought a Mach1 new in 04

that thing hauled ass to redline in second gear

underrated hp indeed
302crossram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 03:52 PM   #41
ALMN
 
ALMN's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS 1LE M6, Palisade Calligraphy
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysalis_01 View Post
More and more info is slowly coming out.


Pricing for 2024 Mustang Dark Horse is out. Here it is vs Mach 1:


Equipment Group/Option | 2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse | 2023 Ford Mustang Mach 1 | +/–

Base price ...................... $57,970 ................................. $56,570 ......................... +$1400

700A ............................ $2,595 ................................... $2,095 ............................ +$500

Appearance Package ....... $1,250 ................................... $1,250 ............................ $0

Handling Package ........... $4,500 ................................... $4,500 ............................ $0

Recaro Seats .................. $1,650 ................................... $1,650 ............................ $0

10-speed automatic ........ $1,595 ................................... $1,595 ............................ $0

Carbon Fiber Wheels ...... $8,495 ................................... -------- ....................... ----





I suppose a $12,995 ask for the carbon fiber wheels and handling package is less than the GT500's $18,500 CFTP option and matches the 2020 GT350's R package. Then adding in another $1650 for Recaros... it's a big ask.



I cant help but think a combination of Ford knowing that no matter how they price it, it'll sell; added to the knowledge that sooner than later Mustang will be the only player left on the field. The later is quite predatory, but that's business, I suppose.



To the question of performance, with Mach 1 already giving GT350-ish performance, when equipped properly anyway, Dark Horse had at least be putting up GT350R numbers, when similarly equipped thereto.



I really hope that, the post 6th gen Camaro, Mustang doesn't fall into the same performance stagnation that happened in the early S197 ('05-'10) era.
That price is believe it or not great for the carbon fiber wheels, the rest i don’t care much about. It is screaming for loyal Ford customers. GM still offers the best bang for the buck. You can get a ZL1 1LE or a C8 with Z51 for that money.
ALMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 07:07 PM   #42
ZED/28
 
ZED/28's Avatar
 
Drives: '69 Camaro LSX/T56 & '14 Z/28 LPE+
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: N/A
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMN View Post
That price is believe it or not great for the carbon fiber wheels, the rest i don’t care much about. It is screaming for loyal Ford customers. GM still offers the best bang for the buck. You can get a ZL1 1LE or a C8 with Z51 for that money.
yet the Mustang would outsell the Camaro by a large margin unfortunately......
ZED/28 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.