[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

Get your car yet? What do you think?

I just ordered one today with a June delivery. Doing buckets and manual trans .. i want it to feel like an occasion and also feel great on the track. PDK is better for the track for sure but i always tend to get bored with PDK/DCT on the street (eg: boxster 718S, M6 gran coupe, M3) .. the manual is like a fidget spinner for me, i've concluded. I tried to order PCCB but they're not available anymore for whatever reason. steels will work just fine.

i've driven my 718S boxster at a couple track days but looking forward to driving the GT4 in anger .. hoping to get it before my VIR trip this summer.

i'm sure taking cost into the equation, the SS1LE will remain my all time favorite smiles/performance per dollar car for track days, but after having a couple i just wanted something different.

cheers.

Sorry, not here often. Yes, I did get my GT4 four mths ago now and have put about 6K miles on it.

This will be a comparison to my outgoing SS 1LE (please keep in mind my 1LE had the ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings [which do make a difference in rear-end stability] and a track alignment)

I went into this hoping the GT4 would be a better car in every way to the SS 1LE (flawed thinking) and it is not and I will explain why below.

The GT4 does ALMOST everything better than the SS 1LE did , with the exception of damping (MRC is WAAAAY better than Porsche's PASM) and high speed stability. The GT4's PASM isn't as good as MRC. The GT4's damping isn't well executed either IMO. Compression is too high and rebound is under-damped. The front-end has a "pogo stick" feel to it and the front-end does not talk well to the rear-end when handling high speed mid-corner bumps. It is a shorter wheelbase and narrower track width car, and has less spring travel.

WHAT THE GT4 DOES BETTER...

Straight line speed: I have the PDK, so that helps here, but the GT4 feels and IS faster than the 1LE by a good margin.

Cornering: The GT4 kills the 1LE in cornering grip. I also did a track alignment on the GT4 to very similar specs as the 1LE. The stock tires are Cup 2's, but they and the SC3 tires are within a hair of each other. The most lateral G's I saw in the 1LE (and only with fresh tires) was 1.25 on some of my favorite on/off ramps.

In the GT4, I have seen 1.47 steady state lateral G's and almost always see at least 1.35 to 1.4 G's on those same on/off ramps and those numbers have not fallen off as the tires have worn. I am a mid-engine convert, BIG TIME. The way the car rotates around you is sublime and you can carry so much more speed in the corners. The GT4, being lighter weight, also does not use tires as fast as the 1LE did.

WHAT THE GT4 DOES WORSE:

High speed stability: The GT4's chassis just moves around a lot compared to the 1LE, but it makes sense when you think about it. Light weight, short wheelbase, narrow track width all add up to a move lively chassis. Also, the PASM and shorter springs do not soak up the crap CA freeway roads that I deal with. On a smooth road, the GT4 will eat the 1LE up all day long, but when the roads turn to crap and you get into uneven and broken pavement , the GT4 falls apart.

When things get rough, I have to drop my speeds in the GT4 to about 20 MPH lower than the 1LE. The damping was so poor in the GT4 that I swapped out the stock PASM for MCS 2-way remote dampers and now that I have the car set-up and dialed in, it can match the 1LE on most crap roads and the front-end and rear-end feels as one now, but it still does it with more abrupt vertical movements than MRC. The chassis still moves around more than the 1LE, but not in a scary way, it is just more "alive".

In summary, the 1LE plays the "dual purpose" much better than the GT4 does. In part, thanks to the MRC dampers, heavier weight, and longer wheelbase. There is no denying the advantage of the mid-engine platform though.

I do not think the GT4 will be the long term keeper I was hoping it to be. I think the C8 Z06 will be the more complete, dual nature car I need and want. It offers the mid-eninge layout, with the high revving motor, and dual clutch tranny.

I got myself on the list for the C8 Z06 and put a deposit down at MM @ MSRP, but I am expecting a 3 year wait, so I will enjoy the GT4 until my number comes up, but I think for me, the C8 Z06 will be the better all around car.

[ALMN]

Are we seriously comparing a $100,000+ car to a $40,000 car? SS 1LE wins even just being compared to the GT4 �� Joke on the side, NA cammed 1le with 315s rear and 295s front running on CUP 2s will probably smoke the GT4 in all performance metric, especially a 10 speed.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by ALMN

Are we seriously comparing a $100,000+ car to a $40,000 car? SS 1LE wins even just being compared to the GT4 �� Joke on the side, NA cammed 1le with 315s rear and 295s front running on CUP 2s will probably smoke the GT4 in all performance metric, especially a 10 speed.

I am, yes, because that is what I moved to. I did it for the things that the 1LE does not and can not do... Light weight, low center of gravity, mid-engine, PDK, interior material quality.

The rest of your comments, that is a slippery slope. Making some suspension changes are one thing, when you go into the motor and/or changing tire/wheel sizes, that is something totally different. Everything goes out the window when you start talking about power adders.

Even so, the Cup' 2's are only a hair grippier than the SC3, we are talking very tiny here. You start altering tire/wheel sizes from stock and you go into something totally different. The car stops being cohesive. All the main systems and sub systems are calibrated for the stock tire sizes and grip levels. You also change steering feel, run into potential rubbing issues, additional wheel bearing wear, etc, etc, etc.

I also guarantee to you , even with those changes, the 1LE isn't holding the same cornering speeds as a light weight, mid-engine platform. Sorry, it just isn't.

I loved my 1LE and it was the best car for the money, but mid-engine, low center of gravity, and dual clutch tranny is where it is at for me.

In regards to the 10-speed, yes it shifts just as fast on the up shifts as a dual clutch, but there is not a torque converter tranny out there than can match the downshift speed, crispness, and responsiveness of a dual clutch. On a dual clutch the car is already in the lower gear before you release the paddle, not so on a traditional auto, there is lag both in response time on the paddle to tranny and then in the actual tranny gear change.

This isn't an ego (mine is better) pissing contest thread, this is my conclusions and comparison of both cars and this is the comparison category section of the forum. The costs are very different, but that is irrelevant for my purposes of comparison.

[455bhp]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

This will be a comparison to my outgoing SS 1LE (please keep in mind my 1LE had the ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings [which do make a difference in rear-end stability] and a track alignment)

This is a great comparison review! Thank you so much for posting it!

I drove the GT4 for 1 hour against my AMG GT S (write up here) and I thought the GT4 had decent suspension compliance. I guess it all depends on the benchmark! (The AMG is super stiff.) I can see how a magnetic-ride suspension would be well ahead of both cars. Is the Z06 MRC, too?

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by 455bhp

This is a great comparison review! Thank you so much for posting it!

I drove the GT4 for 1 hour against my AMG GT S (write up here) and I thought the GT4 had decent suspension compliance. I guess it all depends on the benchmark! (The AMG is super stiff.) I can see how a magnetic-ride suspension would be well ahead of both cars. Is the Z06 MRC, too?

Yeah, the C8 Z06 has the new updated 4.0 version of MRC. It uses actual accelerometers sensors to make changes rather than predictive changes like V3 does. The SS 1LE uses V3

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Yeah, the C8 Z06 has the new updated 4.0 version of MRC. It uses actual accelerometers sensors to make changes rather than predictive changes like V3 does. The SS 1LE uses V3

I'm sure V3 and others are also using accelerometers. If it wasn't stiffening under Gs, exactly how it would it know, without acceleration? Even my BMW did with it's much watered-down electronic supension.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I'm sure V3 and others are also using accelerometers. If it wasn't stiffening under Gs, exactly how it would it know, without acceleration? Even my BMW did with it's much watered-down electronic supension.

According to this article, v3 used position sensors and calculated/interpolated metrics, then v4 switched to accelerometers, which improves precision. Not sure exactly how much of an improvement that actually translates into.

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/...ley-interview/

“There are two main things that happened,” Hurley begins to explain. “One is that we went away from position sensors at each corner calculating roll and pitch, to an actual accelerometer at each corner.”

The result is more accuracy, and therefore more exact control for suspension calibration.

“There’s a lot more fidelity there, a lot more precision,” said Hurley. “You’re getting rid of the linkage and the mechanical bits that are involved in a position sensor. You’ve got a much better signal to work with at each corner to start with.”

Another layer to the precision of MR 4.0 found in the 2021 Corvette Stingray is what’s described as an IMU – or an inertial motion unit – that measures true heave/roll/pitch signals, versus calculated ones.

“The calculations were fine but there’s definitely times where the better the signal is coming in, the better you can tune (the suspension),” explained Hurley. “This all happens within the MR controller itself. It has all sorts of inputs from everything else going on in the vehicle. But the actual computing power of MR has its own controller that runs it.”

[Ikelove]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Odd comparison considering the massive price difference. A used GT4 is still twice the price of a new 1LE.

I am sure the GT4 is amazing, worth that much more money, I am not sure.

No doubt that GT4 is a great car. But worth more than double an SS 1LE? No way.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Ikelove

No doubt that GT4 is a great car. But worth more than double an SS 1LE? No way.

That really depends.

After having my GT4 for 7 mths now, I am a mid-engine convert. The way the car rotates around you and the speeds you can carry in the corners is sublime.

There are only 2 other cars less then $250K that you can buy new that are mid-engine... Lotus Emira, and C8 Corvette ( to which I am on the wait list for the C8 Z06)

[Gen6cyl]

Originally Posted by Ikelove

No doubt that GT4 is a great car. But worth more than double an SS 1LE? No way.

Depends on how green you are and I ain't talking about the environment.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

That really depends.

After having my GT4 for 7 mths now, I am a mid-engine convert. The way the car rotates around you and the speeds you can carry in the corners is sublime.

There are only 2 other cars less then $250K that you can buy new that are mid-engine... Lotus Emira, and C8 Corvette ( to which I am on the wait list for the C8 Z06)

Yeah, it's not an apples to apples comparison. With the Camaro you get performance and some good tech but build quality compared to a Porsche is a joke.

To those in the appropriate income bracket, it's a worthy purchase and a good value IMO.

What is 'worth it' is different to everyone, as is the income they use to evaluate their decisions.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Ikelove

No doubt that GT4 is a great car. But worth more than double an SS 1LE? No way.

I’ve owned a new cayman. I agree with this all day.

If you do basic boltons for either car, it gets worse for the Porsche. A couple bucks and a Saturday and you’re on the back bumper of a stock ZL1. For me the car is just right for $ quality and performance. It’s subjective but the low end torque and sound will eventually be missed

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I’ve owned a new cayman. I agree with this all day.

If you do basic boltons for either car, it gets worse for the Porsche. A couple bucks and a Saturday and you’re on the back bumper of a stock ZL1. For me the car is just right for $ quality and performance. It’s subjective but the low end torque and sound will eventually be missed

See, for me I feel the opposite.

I love the drivetrain much more in my GT4 over my SS 1LE. Granted mine is PDK, but the sounds, the high revving nature, and the quickness at which it moves up the RPM range is leagues better than the 6.2L in the Camaro.

While the numbers don't show it, the PDK equipped GT4 is just as quick as the ZL1 up to about 100 MPH, the 4.0L in the GT4 feels soooo strong (especially in the upper range) and I think it is under rated by Porsche. Its numbers do not give an accurate picture of how quick it is.

Porsche claims 0-60 in 3.7, but I normally see 3.5 to 3.6 in mine, and that is on par with the ZL1. I can tell you it feels quite a bit quicker than my SS 1LE did, especially high up, it just pulls so hard all the way to its 8K redline.

I now have my GT4 set-up and dialed in, and the ONLY thing I now miss about my SS 1LE is the range that the MRC shocks have when at triple digit speeds on roads that suck and test a suspension.

However, I will concede that it took a lot of money in suspension to get my GT4 dialed in and the SS 1LE obsoletely kills the GT4 in bang for the buck. IMO the GT4 (in stock form) is not worth what Porsche charges for it. However if you have the funds, there is definitely something special about a lightweight, mid-engine platform with a high revving motor paired to a PDK tranny. Those were the biggest things that moved me into the GT4 and as great as the SS 1LE was, just doesn't offer.

I take absolutely NOTHING away from the SS 1LE, it was the most complete and capable packaged sports car off the showroom floor I have owned. It also ties for first place of my favorite cars I have owned.

I had the funds to try out a first for both mid-engine platform and a Porsche and so I took the plunge, and while not cost effective, it did open my eyes to a new world.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Own multiple cars have a family and you’ll get it

Lots of sports car owners have a comfy and roomy DD and a nice sports car in the garage. Between being busy AF with a family and it not being practical, there just isn’t much time to drive the sports car no matter how much you want to.

I DD a gmc sierra, I have a restored manual e30 in my garage. You can imagine how much more fun to drive the e30 is than the truck. I literally try to take that e30 out as much as I can. I put like 2k miles a year on the damn thing.

Before I entered that life, I too thought these guys were just keeping their garage queens perfect because they are too cheap to drive them. It’s just not the case. They literally don’t have time to drive them.

The good part about this though....you can make your sports car totally balls to the wall uncompromising fun. Ariel atom? Sure. Gutted race car? Why not

I can totally understand this point of view. But at the same time, if you're financing the car and paying insurance on it year round then you are throwing away money. You might as well daily drive it and get some use out of it.

In my case, I have 5 motorcycles. All paid for. Two of them were $30k when new. I haven't touched them in 3 years. Honestly, if I were financing those I would have probably gotten rid of a couple because it would not make financial sense. Even if you are good for the money, why throw money away? I have financial advisors telling me even today that I should sell them and invest the money. Lol.

I am practicing what I preach. I make well into the six figures but I daily drive my ZL1-1LE rather than buy a daily driver. I've considered a small 4 cylinder car, a 1LT Camaro, a Toyota 86, etc. etc. but honestly, I wouldn't enjoy driving that car as much as the ZL1 and just for the sake of fuel economy and wear and tear. Plus, I think all the daily seat time in my car actually makes me even more comfortable on the race track. I'm right at home rather than feel like I'm jumping in a car that feels strange for the first time.

As far as resale value, I think that if you are selling a car that is within its warranty period, then yes, mileage matters. The next owner will want low miles and for an intact warranty. If you're planning to keep a car until your kids are adults then mileage is less of an issue. For example, a 150k mile Mustang Eleanor would still fetch six figures today easily. Furthermore, in this new supply and demand market, 120k miles is 'the new' 70k miles. A buddy of mine recently got a 5 figure offer for his 2016 Golf GTI with 160k miles. lol.