[cammyfive]

Hello, friends. We currently have a Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid and BMW 328i 6MT in our household and my plan next year is to one of our cars with a 1LE in Garnett Red. My BMW is tuned with the M Performance Exuast so while it's not Camaro SS fast, it is definitely very fun to drive and runs a lower to mid 13 second 1/4 mile and I have had some fun taking it to the track at VIR a number of times for various HPDEs. I know the 1LE will be on another level as far as power and track prowess but I'm curious if any of your guys traded in sports sedans/coupes for the 1LE and how you found the daily driving characteristics. Presumably we'll be trading in the Malibu around the same time for a family/trip car but since we both work I'd like to make sure we have 2 cars that go on trips if need be.

[Ryephile]

Welcome!

It seems a bunch of us 1LE guys come from varied and storied backgrounds. Which generation 3-er do you have? The 328 nameplate has been used for many generations now!

If I had to make a comparison, I'd hazard the SS 1LE has the steering purity of an E46 //M3 but without the wobbly suspension the E46 suffers from, and obviously with more V8 grunt.

Right now even with a set of winter wheels & tires on my SS 1LE it feels special and interesting to drive, which is more than you can say with most attainably priced enthusiast offerings nowadays.

What other cars have you been looking at? If you can get a 1LE test drive, obviously I recommend it. With how extensive the drive modes are you won't get but just a small taste of the breadth of its character, but it'll be a decent taste.

[cammyfive]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Welcome!

It seems a bunch of us 1LE guys come from varied and storied backgrounds. Which generation 3-er do you have? The 328 nameplate has been used for many generations now!

If I had to make a comparison, I'd hazard the SS 1LE has the steering purity of an E46 //M3 but without the wobbly suspension the E46 suffers from, and obviously with more V8 grunt.

Right now even with a set of winter wheels & tires on my SS 1LE it feels special and interesting to drive, which is more than you can say with most attainably priced enthusiast offerings nowadays.

What other cars have you been looking at? If you can get a 1LE test drive, obviously I recommend it. With how extensive the drive modes are you won't get but just a small taste of the breadth of its character, but it'll be a decent taste.

Mine is a 2016 328i M Sport 6MT. I'm rather obsessive about the care and appearance of my cars (pic attached). I should disclose that I work for a large auto group doing social media and digital marketing so I get GMS pricing as well as corporate discounts on a number of other makes thus why we have a Chevrolet and a BMW. I'm attracted to the 1LE because of the price and value. If a Corvette Grand Sport had a subsidized lease rate I'd go that route, but the 1LE is the car that fits my budget and goals. I've also thought about a M240i but I'm attracted to the raw sound of the V8.

[nate.the.great]

I came from a 2011 S4 (DSG) and previously owned an RX-8 R3, Miata, and WRX, so I'll do my best to compare/contrast. prepare for a stream of consciousness...

1. transmission - the manual is a joy, the distance and weight of the throws is as perfect as I can imagine. the shifter is right where you expect it, at the proper seating position, it is right in your right hand.

2. clutch - it grabs high, almost at the top of the range of motion. that means it's much more of a knee/leg action than foot/ankle action. i'm still not completely used to it yet. i've accidentally revved at other cars when shifting into second and gassing it before i got off the clutch.

3. active rev match - another joy, it works so well, it makes driving a manual so much easier. it's so easy for me to select the right gear no matter if i'm braking or coasting. it's especially fun when your exhaust is on track mode.

4. hill holder - working in Seattle, this has been a god send. it takes a little while to get used to, but once you do, it's hard to live without. it takes all the pressure off when you're at a stupidly steep hill and the guy behind you is right on your bumper. it is implemented well, turns on when needed, and does not activate on slight inclines.

5. visibility - it's not great, but it's not as bad as people say. if you properly adjust your seat height so that you're two inches below the roof of the car, you can be a perfectly aware driver to what's going on around you. you MUST adjust your side mirrors to cover your blind spots because you won't have a blind spot monitor. the hard part is that it's not easy to see the corners of the car, so pulling into spots and narrow places can be challenging. i think in time you get to know the size of the car, and that becomes less of a problem.

6. exhaust - my 8 year old self loves it, it's just so hard to not smile when you listen to the exhaust. it's just that classic muscle car sound, and for some reason brings a smile to my face every time. dat startup sound, hnnnggggg... the throttle liftoff burble, hnnngggg....

7. back seats - they are a joke, my 3 and 5 year old barely fit with their booster seats. they endure it to sit in daddy's "race car", but it's pretty small back there.

8. ride quality - mag ride is incredible, but the OEM tires are very stiff. I'm running 19"s for my winter setup, and the ride is excellent with them & mag ride on touring mode. it's a bit on the stiff side on touring with the OEM tires.

9. driving dynamics - whether you know it or not, you're probably used to your car understeering a bit. to get my S4 to rotate, I would actually have to lay on the gas to get the sport diff to rotate the car. the 1LE is not like that, it WANTS to rotate. it wants to go where you tell it, so just tell it where to go, don't try to muscle it like you may have needed to in a prior car.

10. stereo quality - it's not very good, but over time you'll forget what a good sound system (like B&O) sounds like. then you'll be decently happy, and if you're not some folks just install an aftermarket amp to bring the stock speakers to life.

11. window switches - ugh, why are they so far back? as someone who parks in a garage daily, it's annoying.

12. storage - good grief, it's hard to get to, and there's not a lot of it

13. HUD - it's awesome, makes it so much easier to never take your eyes off the road.

14. power - it has more power than I'm willing to use on the street on an all season tire setup in winter. i'm surprised there are guys who want even more.

15. seats - great seats, just wish they had lumbar support. to give you context, i'm 5'11", 195, with relatively broad shoulders and wear a 34" pant. i do wish i had a bit more room in the upper back/shoulder area, but they are really good. better than the S4 seats, not as good as the RX-8 R3 seats.

16. width - it is 75" wide, and you'll feel the extra couple inches coming from a BMW 3 series. i def feel it coming from an S4. you're also sitting more in the middle of the car, and you'll feel that too.

17. powerplant - via Imgflip Meme Generator

18. MPG - i average a mix of 3 highway miles for every 1 city mile, and the best I've gotten is 23 mpg. it's worse when i just feel like listening to the exhaust instead of the stereo.

overall, it's an excellent car if you want to be engaged when you're driving yet comfortable when you just want to take it easy around town. however, I have not found it to be relaxing. I could have a relaxing drive in the S4, but I can only be so relaxed in the Camaro, maybe it'll come with time.

[MTS2020]

EXCELLENT write up, Nate.

[NBR IPD]

My previous car was a 2015 BMW M3 (F80). Besides the obvious visibility and packaging differences, from my perspective here are the differences owning/driving them both:

Positives of the SS 1LE vs. the F80:

+ On-center steering has less friction and hysteresis. Off-center effort build is stronger and go & return hysteresis are smaller. These attributes combine for a more precise steering system to interact with. Smaller steering wheel size and shape are better.

+ Normally aspirated V8 power does not have the delay in building torque the M3 turbo engine has. You have to be really precise with the throttle when ripping skids safely and to stay in control. The M3 nonlinear power delivery is challenging to predict when and how much torque you are finally going to get. With the Camaro V8 it is quite intuitive and easy to manage oversteer.

+ The V8 sound is so much better than the tarted up M3 exhaust, both inside and outside the car.

+ Rev match is off by default, the way it should be. M3 can't turn it off unless it's in most aggressive throttle setting which isn't so good: too hyper and nonlinear

+ MR dampers have better ride isolation to gross body control tradeoff than the M3. M3 small impact harshness worse than the SS 1LE.

+ When cornering the yaw, g, and roll magnitudes and phasing occur more harmoniously on the SS 1LE.

+ Higher max lateral g

+ SS 1LE can set steering, exhaust, and suspension settings independent of mode and will stay that way.

+ Shift lever has a more direct mechanical feel compared to the M3.


Negatives of the SS 1LE compared to the M3:

- Seats. The M3 bolstering stiffness is more even and the seat bottom/back have similar firm feeling to offer good support. The Recaros in the SS 1LE are rather soft vertically and laterally in comparison.

- quality of materials, switches, door closing feel and sound, plastics, carpet pile thickness, and sharper visual detail on interior and exterior surfaces are better on the M3. Everything you can touch has a more sturdy construction and attachment rigidity. Materials come together with more precise gaps too.

- M3 jack points are easier to use with pads that extend down slightly below the sill instead of having to maneuver around the side sill garnish and underbody features with hockey pucks and jack pads on the Camaro.

- pedal spacing between brake and gas is smaller on the M3 making it easier to heal/toe.

- M3 has more open feeling interior (not just the outward visibility)


In summary, the SS 1LE is a better driver's car by putting the emphasis on what matters most in my opinion: the driving dynamics. It has the advantage with a higher level of man/machine synergy. While the M3 is very capable and executes the interior/exterior details better, it isn't as rewarding or fun to drive as the SS 1LE. Therefore, the SS 1LE fits my priorities better and I'm happy I made the switch.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by NBR IPD

My previous car was a 2015 BMW M3 (F80). From my perspective, here are the differences owning/driving them both:

Positives of the SS 1LE vs. the F80:

+ On-center steering has less friction and hysteresis. Off-center effort build is stronger and go & return hysteresis are smaller. These attributes combine for a more precise steering system to interact with. Steering wheel size and shape are better.

+ Normally aspirated V8 power does not have the delay in building torque the M3 turbo engine has. You have to be really precise with the throttle when ripping skids safely and in control. The M3 nonlinear power delivery is challenging to predict when and how much torque you are finally going to get. Camaro V8 is quite intuitive and easy to manage oversteer.

+ The V8 sound is so much better than the tarted up M3 exhaust, both inside and outside the car.

+ Rev match is off by default, the way it should be. M3 can't turn it off unless it's in most aggressive throttle setting which isn't so good: too hyper and nonlinear

+ MR dampers have better ride isolation to gross body control tradeoff than the M3. M3 small impact harshness worse than the SS 1LE.

+ When cornering the yaw, g, and roll magnitudes and phasing occur more harmoniously on the SS 1LE.

+ Higher max lateral g

+ SS 1LE can set steering, exhaust, and suspension settings independent of mode and will stay that way.

+ Shift lever has a more direct mechanical feel compared to the M3.


Negatives of the SS 1LE compared to the M3:

- Seats. The M3 bolstering stiffness is more even and the seat bottom has similar firm feeling to offer good support. The Recaros in the SS 1LE are rather soft and thick.

- quality of materials, switches, door closing feel and sound, plastic interior, carpet grade, and sharper visual detail on interior and exterior surfaces are better on the M3. Everything you can touch has more study construction and attachment rigidity. Materials come together with more precise gaps too.

- jack points are easier to use with a pads which extend down instead of having to maneuver around the side sill garnish and underbody features.

- pedal spacing between brake and gas is smaller on the M3 making it easier to heal/toe.

- M3 has more open feeling interior


In summary, the SS 1LE is a better driver's car by putting the emphasis on what matters most in my opinion: the driving dynamics. It has the advantage with a higher level of man/machine synergy. The M3 is very capable and executes the interior/exterior details better, but isn't as rewarding or fun to drive as the SS 1LE. The SS 1LE fits my priorities better and I'm happy I made the switch.

That was an astonishing post.

Very....VERY well done, if I may say so!

[WhyUMad1LE]

Umm.. compared to an E92 M3..

M3 had better paint, leather, ride quality, stereo, back seat room, visibility

1LE better steering feel, shifter, exhaust note, body control, braking, driver engagement, smile on face..

[MAGAUSA]

Originally Posted by cammyfive

Hello, friends. We currently have a Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid and BMW 328i 6MT in our household and my plan next year is to one of our cars with a 1LE in Garnett Red. My BMW is tuned with the M Performance Exuast so while it's not Camaro SS fast, it is definitely very fun to drive and runs a lower to mid 13 second 1/4 mile and I have had some fun taking it to the track at VIR a number of times for various HPDEs. I know the 1LE will be on another level as far as power and track prowess but I'm curious if any of your guys traded in sports sedans/coupes for the 1LE and how you found the daily driving characteristics. Presumably we'll be trading in the Malibu around the same time for a family/trip car but since we both work I'd like to make sure we have 2 cars that go on trips if need be.

I've been an Audi guy, I had a biturbo S4 that was modded, a V-8 S4 that was modded (to the extent it could be), and an RS4 that was modded. This 1LE in stock form is so far beyond any of those cars. I was sold on an M235 for my next car but then went with the 1LE. Go with this car and you won't regret it from a performance standpoint. You won't even think to compare a 328 to the 1LE after you drive one for a few weeks. My last car was a modded A4 and there's no thought to even compare that with the 1LE. You'll feel the same coming from a 328. I know well the German car mindset. I never thought I'd by an American sports car, let alone a Camaro. But here I am with no regrets.

Don't let anyone influence your thoughts that this is a track car. It's not. It's a finely tuned street car that you can take on the track. It's no more a track car than an M4 or a ZL1.

[Eric SS]

I'm going to give a far shorter post than others here.

I came from:
2011 335is (E92)
2013 335i M Sport Sedan (F30)
Both had BMS JB4 tuners with E85.

The Camaro is every bit the daily driver that they were and much quicker. They only thing I really miss is the Harmon Kardon stereo in both. That was phenomenal! You won't regret the change.

[MAGAUSA]

Only downside is the transition period of understanding how to deal with friends and family when you say you bought a Camaro. You soon learn to find your dignity and understand that they are bringing their likely justifiable life experience of what constitutes an historical Camaro driver. I truly believe that this car will transform that prejudice as people all different car backgrounds look into and purchase this car.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by MAGAUSA

Only downside is the transition period of understanding how to deal with friends and family when you say you bought a Camaro. You soon learn to find your dignity and understand that they are bringing their likely justifiable life experience of what constitutes an historical Camaro driver. I truly believe that this car will transform that prejudice as people all different car backgrounds look into and purchase this car.

The 6th gen Camaro as a whole is on a different level compared to any previous generation Camaro. Some people know this, others don't yet, some never will...

[wjones14]

M235i owner here also in the market for a 1LE. The BMW is a very nice car, but it just doesn't have character. Plus, I miss a NA V8.

My previous car was a Screaming Yellow 2005 Mustang GT. Bought it new, kept it 10 years, and loved it the whole time. It was practically a celebrity, mostly due to the paint, and never failed to attract attention. Perfect strangers at convenience stores or whatever would start conversations about it, even non-enthusiasts. And that was a lot of the fun of the car.

The real fun part about the S197 Mustang, however, was the everyday drivability. Even with Traction Control on, it was so easy to lay down two thick rubber strips on a hard 1-2 shift. I'm not even talking a power shift - I'm talking about lifting, clutching, and back at WOT after the shift. And sliding the rear out in a low-speed 2nd gear corner happened easily with just a moderate amount of throttle, again with TC on. Turning off TC could be dangerous. The 4.6L V8 only had 300 horsepower and 320 lb/ft, but it was ridiculously easy to be a hooligan in that car.

By every measure, the BMW is the faster car, be it around a road course or stomping the accelerator at highway speeds. But it's got two things that keep it from being as fun as it could be:

1. Turbo lag
2. Excessive driver aids (nannies)

Because of those two things, the M235i is difficult to even get a chirp out of the tires on a 1-2 shift. Yes, you can press and hold buttons to turn off most of the aids, but even then, there's a definite momentary lag when you lift and go back to WOT while shifting, as well as a clutch delay valve. You really have to work at it to get as much as a chirp. Sliding the rear out in that low-speed corner scenario is do-able, but you need the nannies off to get the slide started, and even then the electronic open diff will intervene and straighten the car out.

I've taken both cars to HPDE track days, and the BMW is the better car. The turbo lag is not evident at all because everything is about smooth inputs on the track, and the nannies are a good thing to all but the most advanced drivers. But my track days are limited to once a year, and the other 364 days are spent on public roads.

It hasn't even been two years and I'm sort of bored by the BMW. It's all but anonymous for one thing - only enthusiasts know what it is, but to most folks it's just another Bimmer. Even at the few Cars & Coffee meets I've taken it to, it gets very little attention. Again, it's a very nice car, super quality interior, comfortable, quiet inside, nice exhaust crackles outside, just the right size, it's got some status, and it's not bad looking. It's a conservative car for grown ups. I think I want to go back to a hooligan car.

The 1LE checks most of the boxes I'm looking for. What I don't know is how it would be to live with on an everyday basis.

[cpnslow]

Originally Posted by cammyfive

Hello, friends. We currently have a Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid and BMW 328i 6MT in our household and my plan next year is to one of our cars with a 1LE in Garnett Red. My BMW is tuned with the M Performance Exuast so while it's not Camaro SS fast, it is definitely very fun to drive and runs a lower to mid 13 second 1/4 mile and I have had some fun taking it to the track at VIR a number of times for various HPDEs. I know the 1LE will be on another level as far as power and track prowess but I'm curious if any of your guys traded in sports sedans/coupes for the 1LE and how you found the daily driving characteristics. Presumably we'll be trading in the Malibu around the same time for a family/trip car but since we both work I'd like to make sure we have 2 cars that go on trips if need be.

Awesome, another BMW convert! I had a 2013 328i M-Sport, with Dinan Stage 1, a bunch of M Performance parts (suspension, brakes, exhaust), and upgraded wheels and tires (Michelin PSS). Mine was my daily driver and track car, and my 1LE is performing the same duty without any issue. I do miss my back seat, but only about once a month when the need comes up. Other than that, I am super happy with the change.