[snicko]

Hey folks

I'm curious to hear what y'all have done to adapt your driving style to work with PTM. . . .

I raced RWD V8 cars in CMC for a few years (Hi Dave!), dabbled a bit in autocross, also in RWD V8. I've also raced an SE30 *(RWD gutless inline 6) and raced a smattering of other things - Factory Five coupe, Miata, Mustang and a couple of FWD cars.

None of those had any sort of traction control / stability control. The SS 1LE is the first car I've had that has had a halfway decent TC / Stability control system in it. Its also been about uh.. 7 - 8 years since I've been in a car on the track, so there's a bit of rust to knock off in the process.

I've done 3 track days with the new car with TC in the PTM Race mode and my initial impressions are that I'm struggling with getting the car to point where I want mid-corner and corner exit. I don't know how much of that is me & the car and how much is the PTM.

The car doesn't seem to, for lack of a better term, steer with the throttle. The other RWD cars, particularly the V8s, have all been very responsive to using corner entry to mid-corner throttle to get the nose where I want it.

I've read the thread on PTM modes ( https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496996 ) and honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of it - so I thought I'd ask the hivemind here - what have y'all done to adjust your driving style to work with PTM in race mode?

Thanks!

[Christian1LE]

If you're having mid corner understeer it's not related to PTM. Max out your front camber and rear camber. After you do that the car will actually turn in and get rid of the annoying mid corner understeer.

My experience is that PTM Race and everything completely off are very similar pace wise, the car does rotate better with everything off though. But you can abuse the TC on corner exit to maximize your grip if you have it on.

I only use PTM Race and Everything off, I don't bother with the other modes. With OEM tires I'll switch back and forth, with slick tires I only run everything off.

[BoilerUP]

Did your previous RWD cars have square tire sizes, or staggered like the SS1LE?

[snicko]

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Did your previous RWD cars have square tire sizes, or staggered like the SS1LE?

The other cars were all square setups.

[snicko]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

If you're having mid corner understeer it's not related to PTM. Max out your front camber and rear camber. After you do that the car will actually turn in and get rid of the annoying mid corner understeer.

My experience is that PTM Race and everything completely off are very similar pace wise, the car does rotate better with everything off though. But you can abuse the TC on corner exit to maximize your grip if you have it on.

I only use PTM Race and Everything off, I don't bother with the other modes. With OEM tires I'll switch back and forth, with slick tires I only run everything off.

Good point - the car has been running stock suspension with -2.5 up front, -1.7 in the rear. I've had the mid-corner understeer with both the stock GY tires and a 315-30-18 square setup.

I've just tossed camber plates on with the alignment at -3.5 front and -2.0 rear. Running zero toe still.

The pushiness was there from the get go which why I was thinking PTM had something to do with it. It got worse as the sessions go on which I was putting down to insufficient camber up front though.

'kay, well next session's in 3 weeks at the same track. I'll see how it behaves with more camber up front than last time!

Thanks!

[N Camarolina]

Any chance you are simply entering corners with a little too much speed and therefore inducing understeer?

The 1LE has a lot of grip, but if you go in too fast, there isn't a lot you can do at that point to increase the rotation. You can't rotate the car with the throttle (or via trail braking for that matter) IF the front tires are already beyond their limit of lateral grip.

[Dabjbr]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

If you're having mid corner understeer it's not related to PTM. Max out your front camber and rear camber. After you do that the car will actually turn in and get rid of the annoying mid corner understeer.

My experience is that PTM Race and everything completely off are very similar pace wise, the car does rotate better with everything off though. But you can abuse the TC on corner exit to maximize your grip if you have it on.

I only use PTM Race and Everything off, I don't bother with the other modes. With OEM tires I'll switch back and forth, with slick tires I only run everything off.

Honest question…

PTM Race AND everything off or do you mean
PTM Race OR everything off?

I believe when you press and hold TC for 5 seconds, it doesn’t matter matters if you’re in just track or track and race PTM. It turns it all off just the same.

Or am I wrong?

[Dabjbr]

3.5 and zero toe should provide plenty of grip up front. I’d try TC fully off especially when running square. You should have no problem with throttle oversteer.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

Honest question…

PTM Race AND everything off or do you mean
PTM Race OR everything off?

I believe when you press and hold TC for 5 seconds, it doesn’t matter matters if you’re in just track or track and race PTM. It turns it all off just the same.

Or am I wrong?

Correct "or" would be more appropriate. I meant I use both exclusively but only one at a time. Everything off just uses the eLSD Mode 2 and PTM Race has TC + eLSD Mode 3.

[JRL1LE]

" A few notes about RACE mode: I approach this mode as a tool to go faster meaning that I think specifically about it when I go to WOT and I try to change or optimize my throttle application point and steering to help the computer do its job. It can do the job better than me but only if I give it good information. A specific example is how I unwind the steering wheel mid corner and as the corner opens up. When learning to drive on track it is good practice to automatically unwind the steering wheel as you apply throttle regardless of the vehicle response (a string tied from throttle toe to steering wheel is the analogy used by some instructors). The problem in RACE PTM is that by doing that you are telling the car you are ready to go straight. It will add power and drive you to a wider line. The best results are found by holding the wheel as steady as you can and pointing the car to corner exit only when it’s time. Obviously you have to be ready to correct for overslip but as you gain trust you will find this is required less often than it feels at first. It is very useful to practice using PTM in the lower modes where you can focus on letting the car go where you point it and not correcting your steering too early."

This is the key point, unwinding the wheel while also adding throttle doesn't work well with the PTM and ELSD. I've tracked and autoxed Camaro's and Covette's for over 20 years. When I bought a 2017 SS 1LE, i had the same issues exiting corners. I changed alignment settings to try to make it better but then realized, just have to point it straight then add throttle. No spectacular power slides, but it is fast.

Just my experiences w/ the SS1LE and now my C7 Grand Sport.

[5.M0NSTER]

PTM is fantastic at getting you out of the corners fast. Once you’re fairly happy with where the nose is pointing, you can just nail the throttle in a way which would get you in trouble in other cars.

Also for mid corner push a little trail brake does wonders. 1LE has a TON of mechanical grip. I found weight transfer to the front is key to avoid the light push the car sometimes exhibits.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

My experience is that PTM Race and everything completely off are very similar pace wise, the car does rotate better with everything off though.

I agree. You can try rapidly going from zero/minimal throttle to a lot of throttle followed by an immediate lift off of the throttle (and repeat a few times in a row if needed) to get the nose pointed better during a corner while in a PTM mode (or with everything off) without losing too much midcorner speed but you could oversteer enough to where you have to counter steer doing this so if you do try it I recommend using corners with lots of room for error.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Also for mid corner push a little trail brake does wonders. 1LE has a TON of mechanical grip. I found weight transfer to the front is key to avoid the light push the car sometimes exhibits.

I've found this as well. If you get the trail braking just right (very hard for me to reliably repeat at the moment), you get the max weight on the front without exhausting front tire traction...... and the car smoothly (almost lazily) pivots on a dime with the perfect amount of slip angle, and you find yourself fully opening the wheel even though you are just passing the apex (and thus also able to apply more throttle earlier). At that moment, our nearly 2 ton car feels like it weighs like a graceful 100 lb ballerina.

Too little trail brake, and turns in OK but not as good as it could. Too aggressive on the trail brake or carrying too much speed, and you either get significant understeer going into the apex (front tires overloaded) or quick oversteer (real tires overwhelmed) just past the apex.

[wakespeak]

In my experience the PTM even in race mode will keep you from breaking the tail loose. This is mostly good I think so that you can stay on the racing line as much as possible. It will let you throttle steer at slower speeds such as exiting a hairpin, but it seems to happen when the tires are cold or close to overheating for me.

This chassis has mid corner understeer which you can fix with a tap of the brakes for some weight transfer or creating a braking zone even in tiny straights.

You can defeat the PTM by holding down the button for 12s or so.