Ice Mode on the track... - Page 9

GunMetalGrey · 02-25-2023, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Yes, I gave you the ebay link to the used EBCM.

In my car I had controls for a rear view mirror camera appear, this wasn't even an option in '18. I may have lost teen driving mode or something too, the behavior of the software is pretty odd. ABS is definitely better behaved, there was a couple times others had ice mode incidents at an autox, in those spots I could feel the ABS considering what to do for a tiny fraction of a second before braking normally, so I'm happy.

$2k for a new one makes the $300 that guy is charging to unlock your module seem pretty reasonable.

Yes it was you! Thanks again!

GunMetalGrey · 04-30-2023, 01:33 PM

Time to resurrect this, I created another thread detailing how I am now getting a message “ service brake assist” when slamming hard on my brakes and engaging ABS. That’s never happened before I changed the EBCM ABS braking module, so I have to believe it’s related somehow. The message does not come up every single time, but probably one out of every two or three times. I can dismiss it and it does go away on its own sometimes as well.

It is important to note that I did not notice or feel anything different about the brakes themselves.

I will be ordering a few more different versions of used EBCM ABS braking modules; one that is the same as my stock OEM 2018 ZL1 (since I threw the old one out when the new one latched) as well as one from a ZL 11 LE with an automatic transmission. The one I currently have is from a 2020 ZL1.

Also, I can confirm that when replacing modules from other cars like ZL1 to ZLE it does seem to matter that options like automatic transmission have to be the same, I found this out when replacing the traction control module from a car with a manual, there was instantly an error message, but when I put one in from an automatic, like my car, there was no error message

GunMetalGrey · 05-14-2023, 04:09 PM

Has anyone who’s experienced icemode also had a problem/delay with the engine slowly the car down when downshifting? I’m wondering if the throttle still being active (even though the throttle pedal is not depressed) while braking simultaneously could cause the issue.

Intermittently my car will almost act like cruise control is still on for about 3 to 5 seconds after downshifting before the car starts to slow down, essentially the car will start to slow down more than it just was after downshifting even though the engine is at a lower rpm than it just was immediately after the down shift took place. It’s very intermittent.

The boost bypass valve was suggested as a possible culprit and indeed it was disconnected and not working but after repairing it the issue is still there

N Camarolina · 05-14-2023, 07:08 PM

I have not experienced ICE mode, but let me offer you a theory:

For the situation you described, is it possible that you are already threshold braking (tires at max adhesion) before the transmission downshifts, and the engine braking during the downshift is pushing your tires beyond (rolling) adhesion thus activating the ABS? If this were the case, the net effect would be less overall braking with the ABS active, which might feel like the "cruise control" you describe. Following that, as RPM lowers and engine braking affect declines, the tires may regain enough adhesion that the ABS turns off and you experience greater braking force. If you have a PDR, you can check if this is what is happening by examining the data in PI Toolbox. Having said all this, the engine braking effect from 1 single downshift could not possibly last 3-5 seconds, as that would be the time spent in the entire brake zone.

But if my theory is correct (it may not be, maybe instead you are seeing Ice Mode, which I believe is different), the solution would be to use slightly less brake pedal so that ABS never engages.

GunMetalGrey · 05-14-2023, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I have not experienced ICE mode, but let me offer you a theory:

For the situation you described, is it possible that you are already threshold braking (tires at max adhesion) before the transmission downshifts, and the engine braking during the downshift is pushing your tires beyond (rolling) adhesion thus activating the ABS? If this were the case, the net effect would be less overall braking with the ABS active, which might feel like the "cruise control" you describe. Following that, as RPM lowers and engine braking affect declines, the tires may regain enough adhesion that the ABS turns off and you experience greater braking force. If you have a PDR, you can check if this is what is happening by examining the data in PI Toolbox. Having said all this, the engine braking effect from 1 single downshift could not possibly last 3-5 seconds, as that would be the time spent in the entire brake zone.

But if my theory is correct (it may not be, maybe instead you are seeing Ice Mode, which I believe is different), the solution would be to use slightly less brake pedal so that ABS never engages.

I should’ve clarified, I’m driving a 10 speed auto and what I’m describing with the throttle and engine Deceleration occurs under normal driving on the street… I don’t notice it at the track but that’s because I’m in Auto mode and there are a bunch of other things happening at the same time that I’m concentrating on.

What I’m wondering is if this could be contributing to or causing ice mode braking issues on the track in any way shape or form.

cdrptrks · 05-15-2023, 01:02 AM

If you're driving with track pads on the street maybe they're below their minimum and/or ideal operating temperature sometimes (or the whole time) especially near the beginning of a drive causing longer braking distances than usual.

GunMetalGrey · 05-15-2023, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

If you're driving with track pads on the street maybe they're below their minimum and/or ideal operating temperature sometimes (or the whole time) especially near the beginning of a drive causing longer braking distances than usual.

To clarify, this has nothing to do with the braking on the street.

The throttle issue is occurring on the street.

The Ice Mode braking issue is occurring on the track.

I'm wondering if they are related...

Krispy · 05-22-2023, 10:53 PM

My car is a 17’1LE Manual transmission, doubt the IceMode issue is related to the gearbox.

I’ve picked up a 2020 ABS Control Module and will be at a track in two weeks which I had issues last year in three unique brake zones, so we’ll see if anything is different. Will report back after that

Krispy · 05-31-2023, 07:39 AM

I've completed the swap process....which kinda sucks....

I ended up replacing the entire unit(ABS block+electronics) as I didn't want to risk taking it apart and having springs and bits & pieces flying everywhere, also the screws on the new module had tamper paint markings and I didn't want to break the seal. With that said, it's a PITA of a job due to two reasons:
1) For clearance you need remove the plenum front panel, it's the metal piece that attaches to firewall and contains the wiper assembly(yes, all plastic, wiper arms, & wiper assembly need to be removed). I think it's 8 or 10 nut/bolts and then is also bonded, so make sure you have RTV(clear automotive silicon) on hand when reinstalling. I'd suggest to attain a copy of the manual for this section. Very time consuming the first time around, the 2nd time probably still took ~45mins.....
2) I had significant trouble getting the brake line fittings to clamp down and seal properly. Ended up reconnecting the two main lines from the master cylinder 4 or 5 times. Easy to hand tighten but then require ALOT of force/torque(hard todo with short to medium length flare wrenches) while the factory mount is thin aluminum with rubber bushings, the assembly moves around significantly so I needed to get creative and rig up a support to keep the unit stable.

Lessons learned.......make sure you bleed the brakes and test for leaking with the car running.....PRIOR to installing the plenum front panel.

So far, no ABS related codes and the system/ABS appears to be functioning properly. I suspect that I have some air in the lines still which I'll try getting out while doing another bleed using an OBDII scan tool ABS bleed function(runs the pump while also applying air pressure at the master cylinder(ie: Motive or other)).

I'll report back after this weekend at the track regarding whether my 'ice mode' issues have been resolved.

GunMetalGrey · 06-01-2023, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krispy

I've completed the swap process....which kinda sucks....

I ended up replacing the entire unit(ABS block+electronics) as I didn't want to risk taking it apart and having springs and bits & pieces flying everywhere, also the screws on the new module had tamper paint markings and I didn't want to break the seal. With that said, it's a PITA of a job due to two reasons:
1) For clearance you need remove the plenum front panel, it's the metal piece that attaches to firewall and contains the wiper assembly(yes, all plastic, wiper arms, & wiper assembly need to be removed). I think it's 8 or 10 nut/bolts and then is also bonded, so make sure you have RTV(clear automotive silicon) on hand when reinstalling. I'd suggest to attain a copy of the manual for this section. Very time consuming the first time around, the 2nd time probably still took ~45mins.....
2) I had significant trouble getting the brake line fittings to clamp down and seal properly. Ended up reconnecting the two main lines from the master cylinder 4 or 5 times. Easy to hand tighten but then require ALOT of force/torque(hard todo with short to medium length flare wrenches) while the factory mount is thin aluminum with rubber bushings, the assembly moves around significantly so I needed to get creative and rig up a support to keep the unit stable.

Lessons learned.......make sure you bleed the brakes and test for leaking with the car running.....PRIOR to installing the plenum front panel.

So far, no ABS related codes and the system/ABS appears to be functioning properly. I suspect that I have some air in the lines still which I'll try getting out while doing another bleed using an OBDII scan tool ABS bleed function(runs the pump while also applying air pressure at the master cylinder(ie: Motive or other)).

I'll report back after this weekend at the track regarding whether my 'ice mode' issues have been resolved.

My "Service Brake Assist" error message is no longer coming up, had half a day at the track with no issues

Krispy · 06-12-2023, 12:26 PM

Update:

Subsequent to completing the ABS module SWAP I started receiving an error on the dash "Service Rear Axle", but just thought it was a coincidence and that I needed to change my diff fluid. When I made it to the track I was unable to enter any PTM modes, and the car drove as if it had an open diff.

With a code reader I was able to see, " U0077 - Control Module Communication Bus "E" Off ". So it seems like the onboard computers are struggling with a VIN verification/mismatch.

I brought the car into a dealership to try reprogramming the ABS module however it wasn't successful.

Unless somebody has any other ideas I'll be swapping my 2017 module back into the car and giving up on this endeavor. Is there any other way to reprogram used ABS modules?

cdrptrks · 06-12-2023, 01:45 PM

Disconnect the battery for half an hour and then reconnect it if you haven't tried that already before doing all of the work to swap it back.

Also did you try clearing the code with the code reader to see if it comes back or not? Auto parts stores will help you with this for free if you don't have your own OBD reader.

Krispy · 06-13-2023, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Disconnect the battery for half an hour and then reconnect it if you haven't tried that already before doing all of the work to swap it back.

Also did you try clearing the code with the code reader to see if it comes back or not? Auto parts stores will help you with this for free if you don't have your own OBD reader.

Yep, already attempted battery disconnect and several attempts to clear the code.

The GM dealership also tried to clear and couldn't, seems their scan tool had issues connecting to the EBCM and couldn't even read the existing VIN, making reprogramming impossible. Amazing the EBCM has no direct codes, and ABS is still functional.

Has anybody tied to purchase a new GM Genuine/AC Delco EBCM from RockAuto, GMPartsDirect? What is the part number, ACDELCO 84452779?

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1844&jsn=11026

DaveC113 · 06-13-2023, 10:08 AM

That sucks, check the EBCM and plug wiring pins, maybe one got bent? Otherwise the EBCM wasn't the right one, might be damaged, I have no idea but I'm sorry it didn't work.

On reprogramming, it's possible, but you have to unlock it. One guy was offering a service to unlock GM modules for around $300. A brand new module would be the same, it's shipped unprogrammed, without a specific VIN. The other thing you need is a running car to program it. An unlocked or new module needs to be installed into the car and then it's programmed for that car. So this would only work if you have a '19+ car that's exactly the same as your car you can use to program the new or unlocked module.

A few of us have done this successfully so it's possible... as cheap as the modules are in junkyards or ebay, maybe try again with a different one?

04-30-2023, 01:33 PM	#114
GunMetalGrey Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada Posts: 1,384	Time to resurrect this, I created another thread detailing how I am now getting a message “ service brake assist” when slamming hard on my brakes and engaging ABS. That’s never happened before I changed the EBCM ABS braking module, so I have to believe it’s related somehow. The message does not come up every single time, but probably one out of every two or three times. I can dismiss it and it does go away on its own sometimes as well. It is important to note that I did not notice or feel anything different about the brakes themselves. I will be ordering a few more different versions of used EBCM ABS braking modules; one that is the same as my stock OEM 2018 ZL1 (since I threw the old one out when the new one latched) as well as one from a ZL 11 LE with an automatic transmission. The one I currently have is from a 2020 ZL1. Also, I can confirm that when replacing modules from other cars like ZL1 to ZLE it does seem to matter that options like automatic transmission have to be the same, I found this out when replacing the traction control module from a car with a manual, there was instantly an error message, but when I put one in from an automatic, like my car, there was no error message __________________ 2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades Last edited by GunMetalGrey; 04-30-2023 at 02:03 PM.

05-14-2023, 04:09 PM	#115
GunMetalGrey Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada Posts: 1,384	Has anyone who’s experienced icemode also had a problem/delay with the engine slowly the car down when downshifting? I’m wondering if the throttle still being active (even though the throttle pedal is not depressed) while braking simultaneously could cause the issue. Intermittently my car will almost act like cruise control is still on for about 3 to 5 seconds after downshifting before the car starts to slow down, essentially the car will start to slow down more than it just was after downshifting even though the engine is at a lower rpm than it just was immediately after the down shift took place. It’s very intermittent. The boost bypass valve was suggested as a possible culprit and indeed it was disconnected and not working but after repairing it the issue is still there __________________ 2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades

06-13-2023, 10:08 AM	#126
DaveC113 Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Front Range, CO Posts: 1,863	That sucks, check the EBCM and plug wiring pins, maybe one got bent? Otherwise the EBCM wasn't the right one, might be damaged, I have no idea but I'm sorry it didn't work. On reprogramming, it's possible, but you have to unlock it. One guy was offering a service to unlock GM modules for around $300. A brand new module would be the same, it's shipped unprogrammed, without a specific VIN. The other thing you need is a running car to program it. An unlocked or new module needs to be installed into the car and then it's programmed for that car. So this would only work if you have a '19+ car that's exactly the same as your car you can use to program the new or unlocked module. A few of us have done this successfully so it's possible... as cheap as the modules are in junkyards or ebay, maybe try again with a different one? __________________

05-14-2023, 07:08 PM	#116
N Camarolina Drives: 2021 2SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 802	I have not experienced ICE mode, but let me offer you a theory: For the situation you described, is it possible that you are already threshold braking (tires at max adhesion) before the transmission downshifts, and the engine braking during the downshift is pushing your tires beyond (rolling) adhesion thus activating the ABS? If this were the case, the net effect would be less overall braking with the ABS active, which might feel like the "cruise control" you describe. Following that, as RPM lowers and engine braking affect declines, the tires may regain enough adhesion that the ABS turns off and you experience greater braking force. If you have a PDR, you can check if this is what is happening by examining the data in PI Toolbox. Having said all this, the engine braking effect from 1 single downshift could not possibly last 3-5 seconds, as that would be the time spent in the entire brake zone. But if my theory is correct (it may not be, maybe instead you are seeing Ice Mode, which I believe is different), the solution would be to use slightly less brake pedal so that ABS never engages.

05-15-2023, 01:02 AM	#118
cdrptrks Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 961	If you're driving with track pads on the street maybe they're below their minimum and/or ideal operating temperature sometimes (or the whole time) especially near the beginning of a drive causing longer braking distances than usual.

05-22-2023, 10:53 PM	#120
Krispy Drives: Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: ON Posts: 32	My car is a 17’1LE Manual transmission, doubt the IceMode issue is related to the gearbox. I’ve picked up a 2020 ABS Control Module and will be at a track in two weeks which I had issues last year in three unique brake zones, so we’ll see if anything is different. Will report back after that

05-31-2023, 07:39 AM	#121
Krispy Drives: Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: ON Posts: 32	I've completed the swap process....which kinda sucks.... I ended up replacing the entire unit(ABS block+electronics) as I didn't want to risk taking it apart and having springs and bits & pieces flying everywhere, also the screws on the new module had tamper paint markings and I didn't want to break the seal. With that said, it's a PITA of a job due to two reasons: 1) For clearance you need remove the plenum front panel, it's the metal piece that attaches to firewall and contains the wiper assembly(yes, all plastic, wiper arms, & wiper assembly need to be removed). I think it's 8 or 10 nut/bolts and then is also bonded, so make sure you have RTV(clear automotive silicon) on hand when reinstalling. I'd suggest to attain a copy of the manual for this section. Very time consuming the first time around, the 2nd time probably still took ~45mins..... 2) I had significant trouble getting the brake line fittings to clamp down and seal properly. Ended up reconnecting the two main lines from the master cylinder 4 or 5 times. Easy to hand tighten but then require ALOT of force/torque(hard todo with short to medium length flare wrenches) while the factory mount is thin aluminum with rubber bushings, the assembly moves around significantly so I needed to get creative and rig up a support to keep the unit stable. Lessons learned.......make sure you bleed the brakes and test for leaking with the car running.....PRIOR to installing the plenum front panel. So far, no ABS related codes and the system/ABS appears to be functioning properly. I suspect that I have some air in the lines still which I'll try getting out while doing another bleed using an OBDII scan tool ABS bleed function(runs the pump while also applying air pressure at the master cylinder(ie: Motive or other)). I'll report back after this weekend at the track regarding whether my 'ice mode' issues have been resolved.

06-12-2023, 12:26 PM	#123
Krispy Drives: Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: ON Posts: 32	Update: Subsequent to completing the ABS module SWAP I started receiving an error on the dash "Service Rear Axle", but just thought it was a coincidence and that I needed to change my diff fluid. When I made it to the track I was unable to enter any PTM modes, and the car drove as if it had an open diff. With a code reader I was able to see, " U0077 - Control Module Communication Bus "E" Off ". So it seems like the onboard computers are struggling with a VIN verification/mismatch. I brought the car into a dealership to try reprogramming the ABS module however it wasn't successful. Unless somebody has any other ideas I'll be swapping my 2017 module back into the car and giving up on this endeavor. Is there any other way to reprogram used ABS modules?

06-12-2023, 01:45 PM	#124
cdrptrks Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 961	Disconnect the battery for half an hour and then reconnect it if you haven't tried that already before doing all of the work to swap it back. Also did you try clearing the code with the code reader to see if it comes back or not? Auto parts stores will help you with this for free if you don't have your own OBD reader.

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