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Old 09-17-2019, 11:53 AM   #15
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Seeing as Chevrolet supply inventory is at 72 days out, little to no effect will be felt in terms of delivery of Camaros.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:12 PM   #16
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The Unions are also responsible for paying off their mafia bosses. The mob still runs the Teamsters and the UAW. Expect some indictments soon as a few UAW bosses just got caught with their hands in the cookie jar...AGAIN.

The Democrats also have huge influence as the Unions will endorse a democrat every time.
Currently the Demo's would love to see the economy take a downturn as they hate the President.

This could be a long one.

And I have a 2020 C8 on order too.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Lafourche1 View Post
To put another light on this. The workers took several cuts during the 2008-2010 time frame. This was a cut in wages and benefits. GM made > $11,000,000,000 in pre-tax profit last fiscal year. That $11 Billion. Workers wanting to have some of their work rewarded in not only logical, it is fair.

Unions are simply responsible for living wages, worker safety, healthcare, retirement and a host of other benefits that are now accepted across the work place. Another, over-looked, feature of unions is that for every union job, there are 7-8 non-union jobs that carry near equal pay and benefits.

A fair day's wage for a fair day's work is just.
+1 No big fan of the union and their dues but they do provide that umbrella of a fair fight for the working class. Overall middle class America is almost a fallacy.

Plenty of college grads, experienced qualified professions, and middle managers struggle to stay middle class. Taxes, cost of living, and family healthcare and including debts of higher education, mortgage/rent is drowning out the majority.

Until they are checks and balances and true government reform with cost of living wages adjusted to GDP growth and inflation the corporate execs, stockholders will squeeze the labor wages to save their profit margins.

Large corporations have the net worth to support higher wages and benefits but won't and why should they. The bigger dog is king in controlling cost of living wages across the board. If Johnny X is paid on $30 per hour and happy then Johnny Z will most likely be paid about the same in another company. They are wage labor consultants that suggest the labor rate across the profession and that will be the range. If Johnny Z says no then Big dog corp will say hit the bricks..

Good that we still have the right to protest but taking that pay cut on a picket line is a hard pill to swallow. Overall hope the fight will produce what is needed to stay middle class for the majority. Time will only tell.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:24 PM   #18
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i think its ridiculous that the unions are on strike bc people need the cars made (especially the people at Bowling Green assembly at the moment) and i think the UAW needs to get there top brass, income and etc. straighten out before going to the table and asking for more money for them selves.i get that provide benefits to members and other things, but they dont realize that shit happens and its out of GMs control. also dont think ford/FCA are off the hook either

but what do they expect coming out of a blue state(like Michigan) and the epicenter of organized labor

also the union was designed to improve worker safety and improve working conditions not to strike bc they got the short end of the stick.

You do realize they gave up money during the dark days of GM to help GM right? So now that GM has been successful since the bankruptcy they can share some of that with the employees who helped it during that time.


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It's time for a new BOSS.

She is not the issue. While she has done good things from a company perspective, they have neutered GM when it comes to cars. Where is any excitement? Lloyd Reuss brought me high hopes his daddy was on the GN team, yet nothing to be excited about.....


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I do not support Union's of any kind for any reason, all of them may many F's befall upon them. All of them should be summarily terminated with extreme prejudice.

I'm union. Try taking away the union and see what you get. Most unions are pathetic, the problem is there are usually slightly less pathetic than the company trying to screw you over.




I also will not be buying or ordering a car at this time due to the strike. Same goes for service unless it is something unavoidable.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:34 PM   #19
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GM could always move to non union states and hire non union labor.many "foreign" car companies have done this and it worked out well for them.you dont think part of the reason a new SS is 50,000 dollars is high union wages and benefits?kind of tough to compete against foreign products when you have to meet union "demands".i wouldnt be surprised to see more GM products built in china if the union really puts the screws to GM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Frank237 View Post
The Unions are also responsible for paying off their mafia bosses. The mob still runs the Teamsters and the UAW. Expect some indictments soon as a few UAW bosses just got caught with their hands in the cookie jar...AGAIN.

The Democrats also have huge influence as the Unions will endorse a democrat every time.
Currently the Demo's would love to see the economy take a downturn as they hate the President.

This could be a long one.

And I have a 2020 C8 on order too.
Reminds me a little of the strike in 99. I had a C5 on order at the time and that strike went almost 2 months if I recall correctly. The UAW really put the screws to GM by striking only at some key part supplier, but that part was critical in most GM cars so it wasn't long before production was idled at all plants. Of course the union contracts meant that non-striking workers continued to get paid, even when the plant is idled because of the striking parts suppliers. No wonder GM and others diversified their supply chains and look to offshore suppliers and manufacturing. I really hope this gets settled soon - for the sake of the local plant communities if nothing else.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:53 PM   #21
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All of GMís plants are closed, and other unions like the Teamsters are supporting the strike - so new-car deliveries are shut down too.
We all need to support the strike by keeping our CamAROS parked....Who's with me!!!!???
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:06 PM   #22
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We all need to support the strike by keeping our CamAROS parked....Who's with me!!!!???



Your being funny right? I'm union and I feel you. The reason the companies have all the power and companies own people has everything to do with the people, union or not. They cry and piss and moan and the sad fact is most morons, whatever they make, live beyond their means and losing even so much as one paycheck will cripple them. This isn't unique to incomes levels considered to be poor or well off. Most won't strike because they can't replace income or nothing saved for emergencies, let alone having the balls to follow thru with something.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:46 PM   #23
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I like unions when they exist to protect worker/consumer safety where the company leverages the need to work with skirting their own costs.

I dont support unions that exist to boost worker wages or retain current employee's jobs.

And I dont think they should leverage one purpose to prop up the other.

If you read a bunch of what's going on regarding this, it seems a good deal has to do with being concerned over job security as companies move away from combustion engines to more simpler electric drivetrains. A lot of people who depend on the more parts and higher failure rate and complexity of combustion engine'd vehicles over electrical are worried they'll be looking for different jobs as those vehicles are phased out. Which sucks for them, but it's not like it's not going to happen. Grasping at the past wont do any better at preparing them for dealing with a world that doesn't need that many mechanics, auto workers etc.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:53 PM   #24
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I saw less than 20 people protesting outside the Ren Cen this morning. The lack of people was pretty funny.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:19 PM   #25
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Your being funny right? I'm union and I feel you. The reason the companies have all the power and companies own people has everything to do with the people, union or not. They cry and piss and moan and the sad fact is most morons, whatever they make, live beyond their means and losing even so much as one paycheck will cripple them. This isn't unique to incomes levels considered to be poor or well off. Most won't strike because they can't replace income or nothing saved for emergencies, let alone having the balls to follow thru with something.
Nope..serious..
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:41 PM   #26
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And they can’t live on $63.00 an hour wages! I wish I could get half of that an hour! The time for unions has come and gone in my opinion!
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:30 PM   #27
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And they canít live on $63.00 an hour wages! I wish I could get half of that an hour! The time for unions has come and gone in my opinion!
Thatís all in including benefits. That is NOT what they are paid.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:33 PM   #28
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Look - if you think that "labor offshore" is really the difference, then you need to think about all the variables that go into manufacturing for a global company.

Believe it or not - the cost of labor in the US vs China is within 5% of each other. Are the wages that close? No. But U.S. manufacturing is also reported to be 70-90% more productive, and that is considering the average shift here is 8hrs vs 12hrs in China. Once you factor in everything like benefits and logistics, the number is really close. I work with a ton of companies that manufacture all over the world and they tell you that things now are more even now than they have ever been. Most will tell you cost to manufacture is within 7-8%. So why build factories around the world?

For starters - logistics. How cost effective would it be to build a 4,000lb car and ship it half way around the world to the buyer? No very. You are adding a serious amount of shipping and tariffs into the mix. IE - in Japan, it is a mandatory 30% import tariff on a imported vehicle. So you build cars in the markets in which they are sold.

See Americans think every good idea starts and ends here in our country. A shocking statistic is that GM sold 23% more cars in China last year vs here (1.6M vs 1.3M). Being that China has a 25% import tariff on cars, you would want to build cars in China also. A car built in China that is imported into the US only has 2.5%. So it is easier for GM to build cars there and bring them here.

Second thing is that in the US, a car company has to build a network of dealers and hold billions of dollars of inventory on the lots because the average US buyer wants to walk on the lot and browse cars. Which is all fine and dandy, but that comes at a cost. Every car sold, even if you pay cash, has somewhere buried in its cost 6-8% interest that you paid along the way (in the form of interest forced onto the dealer by the manufacturer and interest charged to the manufacturer by their banks & the government for the purchase of raw materials).

In Asia - over 90% of the cars sold are sold prior to being built. A guy walks into the dealer, looks at the car, might drive one, and then orders one. The dealerships are owned by the company and they don't have a ocean of cars out in front. They might have 25 cars there, and yea, you can buy off the lot, but most people order. So for the car company there is a seriously reduced amount of logistics selling in Asia (and Europe is quickly changing to this business model). Would you rather take the money for the car you want to sell up front, or would you want to build it and hope someone comes and buys it?

The two models that sell the most globally for GM are the Buick Envision & the Chevy Trax. Both are designed and built for the Asian market, and are built in China. Buick dealers here scream at GM that they can't get enough of them, but GM sells them before they are even built in China.

If you are a fan of your Camaro (of course built here in Lansing, and not available in most of the world) you have to understand, if there was no "offshore labor", you would have had to buy a car from someone else. GM would either have been gone or close to gone by the time the 6th Gen Camaro was produced. Stepping away from thinking that the only place to sell cars is North America is the best thing that GM ever did, and had it not been for the bailout it would have never happened. It's nothing to do with the UAW or the unions, it has to do with being able to take advantage of the world market.
Good thoughts but some misinformation. Also the Chevy Traxx and Buick Encore are built in South Korea not China.
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