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Old 10-22-2018, 09:17 AM   #15
b0bsaget007
 
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Originally Posted by Nsxmatt View Post
There are people with legitimate tunes from reputable tuners on basically stock cars that are losing engines. I just don't think a piggyback "chip" is a wise choice knowing the dangers out there and how sensitive the engines are.
On the contrary, I would think that using a piggyback tune would actually be better than flashing the ECU in this regard, as it's much easier to physically remove the chip and preserve the warranty should anything happen to the engine than it would be to hide evidence of modifications done to the ECU's programming.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by b0bsaget007 View Post
On the contrary, I would think that using a piggyback tune would actually be better than flashing the ECU in this regard, as it's much easier to physically remove the chip and preserve the warranty should anything happen to the engine than it would be to hide evidence of modifications done to the ECU's programming.
I'm not talking about which would be better to con warranty into fixing mistakes causing a blown motor, I'm saying I'd rather use a real tune over one that manipulates signals to alter fuel/timing and boost. That is technology we used to use way back in the 90's and early 2000 to tune cars before we could access and tune the actual ECU. Does it work? Yes. Is it the best and safest option? No. Not by far.
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:16 AM   #17
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Hello everyone, I’m Wes with RaceChip. As b0bsaget007 stated (and thanks for sharing it) we have just released our RaceChip for the 2.0L Turbo Camaro. There are 3 chips available for the Camaro. The S, RS & GTS Black. We also have the XLR throttle tuner available for it.
We are a German company that has been around for 10 years. We sell >100,000 products in 135 countries per year and have 100 employees at locations in Stuttgart, Munich, Shanghai and – brand new - California. We have 10+ specialists doing nothing else than developing Hardware, Firmware and Software. All done inhouse.
In 2018, we opened an office in Southern California where our team helped developing the chip for the Camaro. As Start The Machine stated the HP and LB-FT listed on the website are at the crank and the dyno chart he was nice enough to share is wheel horsepower. In the US part of the development and testing of the tune for the chip we used a DynoJet dyno. I will comment on the chart further below. We want to make sure that everything works correctly so we double and triple check.
I would also like to thank Jason@JacFab for sharing his experience as our tester.
The advantage with a piggyback system is that the stock ECU safety measures stay in place. We do try to push the motor more, but not enough to have issues. Having issues is something we don’t want.
If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to post them on the forum. We are a sponsor and will be on here every day. I will write more explanations in new posts below.
For the installation, please check following video:
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:46 AM   #18
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About the “cheap piggyback” discussion and our product:
Our new product range was launched not even a year ago and represents the latest technology. A RaceChip GTS is made in Germany and consists of more than 350 hardware components. One of these components is an ARM Cortex processor capable of gathering and optimizing data from the engine sensors via up to seven analogue and digital channels in parallel as well as enabling load dependent tuning.



RaceChip is a piggyback solution, but we wanted it to be more sophisticated (if not, it would not have taken us one year to develop the product).
We want to go beyond the Piggyback vs. ECU remapping discussion and just combine the advantages of piggybacks (Simple plug and play installation within a few minutes, Easy removal within a few minutes to reset the car to the factory setting, The tuning can't be overwritten during a service, Not messing with OEM protection mechanisms) with ecu remapping advantages (engine load dependent tuning, customizing the performance upgrade to the need of the driver, different software mappings).
We don’t change any temperature signals, but intake pressure (MAP), turbo boost pressure and air mass sensor (in the Camaro 2.0T). The technology sounds simple, but it is very effective while safe if you do it right. Unfortunately, the image of piggybacks is not very good, because of many companies sold cheap products or even snake oil in the past. However, that direction is the way the whole industry will (try to) go in the future. ECUs are getting more and more complex and op top manufacturers are forced by law to prevent modifying them – for now in Europe, but we’ll see the same development in the US. A modern car does not only have one or two control units, but e.g. 12. The software is developed by hundreds of experts. Modifying this software results in a lot of opportunity to make unintended mistakes.
We take advantage of the fact that the ECU is self-adapting to new values. The ECU remains as „Master“, the security systems are still in place and safety-relevant sensor values (e.g. exhaust temp, oil temp etc.) are not changed. The control units change all relevant values, based on the input. So, it’s not about optimizing 3 sensor values, but a lot more parameters.
To customize the tuning to the need of the driver and the car, the RaceChip GTS Black comes with 7 predefined fine-tuning mappings. (0=stock, 1=least aggressive tuning, … , 7= most aggressive tuning, that should only be used with 93+ octane). The mappings differ not only in hp and torque, but also how and when the power is developed. A one size fits all solution, would not be good, because there are so many factors making each car different (standard factory model variation, maintenance condition, fuel quality, altitude, other modifications,…).
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not saying, RaceChip is the best solution for everyone. A RaceChip will always be a simple to use plug & play performance upgrade, that just works. Easy installation, easy removal and no messing with engine protections system. If you want to go to the limit or beyond, there are other solutions. If you are working on your car every day, RaceChip might be too boring for you. You are done after 20 min.
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:48 AM   #19
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More power and better MPG, how is this possible?
How can you improve MPG? Not with full throttle and badass driving. Other than that, it is pretty simple. Your automatic transmission shifts to the next higher gear when a certain torque level is reached (on manuals the driver shifts when having enough torque). When you increase the torque of your engine along the whole rpm range, what happens? Correct, you shift earlier to the next higher gear. Earlier means at lower rpms. The lower the rpms, the less fuel you need. This means, if you drive at lower average rpm, your MPG will increase. That’s also the reason why the MPG improvement is higher with tuned diesel cars (the torque gain is higher with diesel engines).
Let’s be honest: If you drive fast and NOT at lower average rpms you won’t save fuel.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:48 AM   #20
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Peeked my interest. Will it be made available on the EU sites or would I need to order it in the US? (taxes, shipping).
Has it been tested on EU Camaros?

Thanks,
Nick
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:22 AM   #21
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Dyno chart

Let me explain the dyno chart:
In Europe, it is standard to measure and publish the engine output, which is roughly speaking wheel horsepower plus powertrain loss. So how is the power loss measured? Many dynos just calculate the power loss, which is inaccurate. Only few dynos, such as our MAHA dyno in Stuttgart, really measure the power loss. Therefore, directly after the wheel horsepower measurement, a coast down test (deceleration test) is conducted. This test measures the power loss accurately. I guess for this reason (and because of the whole industry including AMG and BMW M is doing it this way), it is standard to always use crank HP.

This means, usually we are publishing crank dyno charts and crank numbers in our shop. We usually get in several cars for developing and testing, because each car is different even in stock condition. E.g. recently we had a BMW F90 M5 that had 665 HP in stock while BMW is claiming 600 HP. For the dyno chart we are publishing, we are then calculating the average of all dyno charts. This is what our customers can expect and what they understand. They often get confused when the stock HP on our chart differs from the stock HP claimed by the manufacturer.

When you are German and a 100-people company, you develop certain standards because you want the highest quality possible (The “the best or nothing” mentality). This does not only apply to the product and the processes (ISO9001), but also to the marketing material. Just look at the level of our videos (e.g.
). Not surprisingly there also is a standard for the dyno charts we are publishing, even if it is just a copy of a Dynojet or Maha dyno output and no average of several charts.

It looks like our company needs some time to realize that things might be different in the US. Until now there is still the opinion, that posting a copy of a dyno output sheet looks messy and unprofessional, especially if you use different kind of dynos (MAHA, Dynojet). We already got the feedback that our website and videos look slick and not from the real world. This is why I appreciate your feedback a lot. We are willing to learn and do things better next time. Your feedback helps to explain this to the German colleagues and management.

For another car we recently launched, we published a crank HP chart as usually and got negative feedback telling us to use WHP charts in the US. Now we are publishing WHP charts and people get confused, because we are using crank HP in the shop. Let’s see, maybe at one point we publish WHP gains in our shop. Just not sure whether people will be even more confused, because they only know their crank HP and we tell the WHP, which is totally different.

I apologize for the long text. In a nutshell: it’s no fake, just more complicated than one might think.
I attached a PDF of the real dynojet output file.
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File Type: pdf Camaro 2.0T Map 0 vs Map 6.pdf (363.1 KB, 83 views)
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceChip View Post
About the “cheap piggyback” discussion and our product:
Our new product range was launched not even a year ago and represents the latest technology. A RaceChip GTS is made in Germany and consists of more than 350 hardware components. One of these components is an ARM Cortex processor capable of gathering and optimizing data from the engine sensors via up to seven analogue and digital channels in parallel as well as enabling load dependent tuning.
Broke down into simpler terms, it's doing the same thing a SAFC did 20 years ago. Taking signals and "tricking" the ECU to make changes based on false readings. You're making the ECU think it's at 5 psi when in fact it's at 10, and modifying the fuel in the same way. Not only is this unsafe, it's also just going to increase boost since the ECU will still monitor real time intake temps and timing tables and retard timing when the two don't match up. So you'll have the illusion of more power based off of more TQ but even less top end. This technology was outdated when it came out but since nobody could crack stock ECU's it's all we had without a stand alone like electromotive.

This is not a safe solution and at $700 it's way overpriced for a $10 printed board and LED screen.
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nsxmatt View Post
Broke down into simpler terms, it's doing the same thing a SAFC did 20 years ago. Taking signals and "tricking" the ECU to make changes based on false readings. You're making the ECU think it's at 5 psi when in fact it's at 10, and modifying the fuel in the same way. Not only is this unsafe, it's also just going to increase boost since the ECU will still monitor real time intake temps and timing tables and retard timing when the two don't match up. So you'll have the illusion of more power based off of more TQ but even less top end. This technology was outdated when it came out but since nobody could crack stock ECU's it's all we had without a stand alone like electromotive.

This is not a safe solution and at $700 it's way overpriced for a $10 printed board and LED screen.
You have got to be the most negative person on these forums. You poo poo pretty much EVERYTHING. Do everyone a favor and stick to being negative in your v6 section.

Pretty much every single tuner that tunes these has had their tune in a car when an engine blew up. Is it the tuners fault? Who knows. But by your own words that would tell me that even a "real tune" isn't safe, even from a reputable tuner.

In a sense, you are correct with your statement above, but as long as optimal boost pressures aren't exceeded the manifold temps will stay within a range that excessive timing is not pulled.

These guys have tested this thing for over a year before it was even announced, or any US guys were allowed to do independent testing. Have a little faith.

By 2020 if/when GM finishes implementing its new encryption BS things like this "piggy back" as you call it, will be the ONLY option, aside from full on expensive aftermarket powertrain management systems.
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:58 PM   #24
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Peeked my interest. Will it be made available on the EU sites or would I need to order it in the US? (taxes, shipping).
Has it been tested on EU Camaros?

Thanks,
Nick
We have worked on the US & Asian (specifically Shanghai, China) version, but not on the European version yet. The US & Asian version are slightly different, but we do believe the US version will work great on the European model. You can order from the US website for Europe right now (There is a 30 day money back guarantee). The product will be shipped from Germany and RaceChip always pays for shipping and customs. As an option you if you are willing to drive you can come to our Stuttgart facility and we can put your car on a MAHA dyno and test everything. If you will make the drive we can offer you a free product and would shoot a #RaceChipinsights video for our YouTube channel.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:58 PM   #25
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You have got to be the most negative person on these forums. You poo poo pretty much EVERYTHING. Do everyone a favor and stick to being negative in your v6 section.

Nah. I'll continue to help out those who may not know better by giving real world advice. I've been in this game a whole lot longer than you and I'm not being fed products to review nor am I pushing my own products either so I have an unbiased opinion. You can simply ignore me if my opinion bothers you so much but no, I'm not going anywhere especially when people are trying to peddle $10 circuit boards for $700 to a bunch of unsuspecting customers here.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:40 PM   #26
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Nah. I'll continue to help out those who may not know better by giving real world advice. I've been in this game a whole lot longer than you and I'm not being fed products to review nor am I pushing my own products either so I have an unbiased opinion. You can simply ignore me if my opinion bothers you so much but no, I'm not going anywhere especially when people are trying to peddle $10 circuit boards for $700 to a bunch of unsuspecting customers here.
OMG another I've been around longer then you in this industry snowflake. Why don't you go back to eating the paint chips from your childhood if your so old and knowledgeable because nobody likes you. Literally they hate me but know i try to help keep people from making terrible mistakes you're just a dumb little shit looking for attention.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:52 AM   #27
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OMG another I've been around longer then you in this industry snowflake. Why don't you go back to eating the paint chips from your childhood if your so old and knowledgeable because nobody likes you. Literally they hate me but know i try to help keep people from making terrible mistakes your just a dumb little shit looking for attention.
You're*

If you're going to try and insult someone, at least use elementary taught grammar.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:03 AM   #28
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I sure would like to hear more opinions on the chip. The concept is worth a look.
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