[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

A supercar is a luxury, high-performance sports car or grand tourer. The term is used in marketing by automakers for unusual and expensive vehicles, and has been used to refer to at least four different sorts of cars:

Limited-production specials from an "elite" automaker
Standard-looking cars modified for power and performance
Models from smaller manufacturers that appeal to enthusiasts
One-of-a-kind "showcase" project vehicles built by custom car retrofitters (usually extensively modified collectible muscle cars or grand tourers updated to the latest "streetable" racing technology).

You really should site your source when you copy and paste.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by motorhead

You really should site your source when you copy and paste.

Doing a search to hard for you. But to make you feel better, Wikipedia.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

Doing a search to hard for you. But to make you feel better, Wikipedia.

My ability to do a search has nothing to do with it. Copying and pasting someone else's words word for word without citing them is plagiarism plain and simple. Just trying help you out incase you didnt know.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by motorhead

My ability to do a search has nothing to do with it. Copying and pasting someone else's words word for word without citing them is plagiarism plain and simple. Just trying help you out incase you didnt know.

I know what plagiarism is. The guy asked what the definition was in which I quoted his question. Then gave the definition. Now if I didn’t quote his question and just gave what I pasted, then yes that would be in question. But thanks anyway for keeping me on my toes.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

It's a little something known as common sense...unless you think that people would purchase a $400k Ferrari that is slower than an Prius. Think about all of the Car and Driver or Road and Track magazines you read when you were younger. 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed were (and still are) the top performance metrics of supercars.

Seriously though, common knowledge man.

So you made it up...

Originally Posted by Syphon23

Trolling is spreading misinformation. Thats something you do! I present data and facts. Not just my own warped opinion.

Ok troll.

[shaffe]

Man I'm gone for a few days and all hell breaks lose here! hahahaa

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I actually enjoy your posts. You're ok in my book. But to answer your question. A racing classification just means they are lumping nitrous in with FI to keep things fair. It wouldn't be fair if it was included in with bolt-ons since nitrous can add 50-200+ hp. But that does not mean it is actually FI by any means.

I see you changed your tone tough guy. You can word it however you want. Just don't include me in your fantasies about drowning people. My previous answer stands. So I won't waste my time explaining it again.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Being classified as forced induction by a racing organization and actually being forced induction are not the same. Classifications are used to keep the racing fair or to provide fair rules. Nitrous being lumped in with forced induction is standard. But it is not FI...unless they change the actual definition of FI.

Which I 100% your reasoning being the technical side of it for it not being forced induction, I have no problems with it being lumped in with forced induction. When that's what the organized racing bodies consider it that is fine with me.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The fastest I have seen the Z06 test at was an 11.4 which is exactly what the A10 ZL1 tests at. So they are neck and neck. GM did claim that the Z06 could do a 10.95 but I have not seen any tests where it has actually done that. So claims don't count. Just like FCA claimed the Hellcat would run faster than any test could manage.

Also, though it wasn't an official test, Hennessey did roll races with the M6 ZL1 and M7 Z06 and they were pretty much neck and neck. And that is with the ZL1 weighing more. So in acceleration it is definitely on the same level as the Z06.

Also on some tracks the ZL1 has hung with cars such as the Viper SRT10 ACR and others. That is the same level of performance. Although I would not technically call the ZL1 a Supercar since it is actually a Muscle Car I will say it has Supercar performance because it does.

Blaq, since you brought it up just curious. You seem so hung up on what magazine tests are able to get with the cars. You even mention them not getting the numbers Dodge claimed with the Hellcat, yet you own one. Just trying to connect the dots lol.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Maybe we should go back to arguing about nitrous. It made more sense than what these guys are trying to spew. Lol

haha

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 1LE WILL beat the Z06 on a track. The standard ZL1 with A10 trans WILL beat a M7 equipped Z06. The standard ZL1 with A10 trans CAN beat a Viper. The ZL1 1LE CAN and WILL match a Viper on a track. That is Supercar level performance. Whether it can beat the fastest, most expensive Supercar on the planet or not does not take away from the fact that it is on the same level as a Supercar. No car that is NOT a Supercar can beat it stock for stock in ANY performance category at all. The only cars capable of beating a ZL1 or ZL1 1LE stock for stock are Supercars and some of them actually can't beat them. That makes it Supercar level performance. That is the simplest explanation I can give to the intellectually deficient.

I am pretty sure if you look at lap times from the big auto mags that do those kind of tests the Z06 is still faster around the track than the ZLE. And the Viper is faster than the Z06

Originally Posted by Syphon23

According to Car and Drivers lightning lap the Z06 still beats the ZL1 1LE:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2015-feature

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature

Try again!

I'll add some Laguna Times to this, just looking at the ones driven by randy for MotorTrend since we love magazine times here.



Viper was almost 3 seconds faster than the Z06, that's not exactly hanging with it IMO. The Z06 was also 1 second faster than the ZLE. SO I will say the ZLE can give a Z06 a run but the Vette is still faster. And neither of them IMO hang with the Viper. The Viper on a race track is in another world.

Now none of this takes away from the awesomeness that the ZLE is. A Camaro offering that kind of performance is insane. But saying it hang's with a Viper is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Originally Posted by Koldunic

What is the definition of a supercar?
Linear acceleration only? I ask humbly because I really don’t know.

See below

Originally Posted by motorhead

Its a marketing term to push luxury high performance automobiles from elite "high end" manufacturers.

Don't forget usually includes a high price tag!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Which I 100% your reasoning being the technical side of it for it not being forced induction, I have no problems with it being lumped in with forced induction. When that's what the organized racing bodies consider it that is fine with me.

I have no problem with it being lumped in with forced induction either. That was my point all along. That it is not forced induction but it gets lumped in with it. It wouldn't be fair if it got lumped in with bolt-ons because it would have a huge advantage.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Blaq, since you brought it up just curious. You seem so hung up on what magazine tests are able to get with the cars. You even mention them not getting the numbers Dodge claimed with the Hellcat, yet you own one. Just trying to connect the dots lol.

I'm actually not hung up on magazine tests. People keep misunderstanding when I bring it up. I simply acknowledge that a magazine test is the only fair way we have to compare two or more cars in an unbiased manner. Youtube videos don't count for obvious reasons. What Joe Schmoe does at a track and claims his car to be bone stock doesn't count either because we all know that some people flat out lie. Therefore an instrumented 3rd party unbiased professional and respected source is the best way to get actual performance data. The Mustang crowd doesn't like that only because the Mustang has been losing. Which is why they keep pulling up YT video after video.

The second part of your statement about the Hellcat...Dodge claim it would do an 11.2 bone stock and it would be in the 10s with DRs. Yet many Hellcat owners will attest that it is damn near impossible to get an 11.2 on the stock tires. While one guy in a magazine (and a handful of others) claimed to have done it, the rest of the owners will tell you it ain't gonna happen on the stock tires. So yea I went out and got myself one mainly because it has 707 hp, it looks badass, and has every option out there. And I love the car. But I still will say that in magazine testing (and accounts from owners who go to the track) it is not capable of doing what FCA claimed it would do.

Same with the Z06. GM claimed it would do a 10.95 or something like that. Yet it was never tested to go that fast. I think it did an 11.2 or something. But not what it was said to be able to do. Granted it is closer to the claimed times than the Hellcat is. I think the best they tested the HC to do was an 11.7. Although I love the HC and Z06 I have no problem admitting their faults.

[shaffe]

I'm just trying to get a read on you lol.

[Steph93lx]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I’m faster than every s550 on the list besides the mineshaft air gutted converter car on ftw purple, pulleys and ewp with full Suspension gears and trans brake. With a literal bolt on car. I’ve never considered a converter a bolt on. I have stock suspension no gears pump E85. Near full weight with 260 lb driver. Good air but nothing crazy around -100

A heads cam lt1 is capable of 600 rwhp (very close already with just stock ported heads and mild cam) and 9 second passes. Without being a gutted POS race car. Just wait

Mod for mod NA 6g greater than 15-17 s550. The 18+ May change that.

Unless I am mistaken your track is in Milan, Michigan. Great prepping track and you can get good DA there too.

According to dragtime the DA on your best run was between -517 and - 1092 around 40- 48 degrees temperature.

That's pretty good air!!!
That's much better than the around - 100 - 150 DA you listed!!

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Steph93lx

Unless I am mistaken your track is in Milan, Michigan. Great prepping track and you can get good DA there too.

According to dragtime the DA on your best run DA was between -517 and - 1092 around 40- 48 degrees temperature.

That's pretty good air!!!
That's much better than the around - 100 - 150 DA you listed!!

Hey what's the big idea of actually discussing the OP's topic?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Hey what's the big idea of actually discussing the OP's topic?

Yeah what the hell! I want to go back to arguing about bolt ons and nitrous being forced induction

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Steph93lx

Unless I am mistaken your track is in Milan, Michigan. Great prepping track and you can get good DA there too.

According to dragtime the DA on your best run was between -517 and - 1092 around 40- 48 degrees temperature.

That's pretty good air!!!
That's much better than the around - 100 - 150 DA you listed!!

No way lol. 6 pm was my only good run of the night about 50f. 40-48? Nice spread. It was 48-50 at 6 pm I was there.I almost crashed the car prep was so bad. I left after two more tries. Could have went 10.7 at US131 in that air.

It was -150 at the time of my run checked with weather data from nearest airport with AutoDens app. Drag times is not the Bible. In fact it’s almost always off when I compare to data directly from my location

DA got to -500 or so by the end of the night. Never -1000. I never got any good runs after my first one prep was so bad. Even my good run I got sideways on my 1-2 shift. It was my second time out with the setup and still got no good data.

Great prepping track? No you’re terribly mistaken not on test only night. I usually go to 131 and run consistently better. Always good prep. Milan only preps decent when other classes running with test. And then you are just waiting around all night. There timing system is old and messes up a lot too. I was 2 mph off in that lane all night compared to the other. The track is nearly bankrupted dump at this point.

Comparing me to that car is a joke regardless. It’s a race car. With my mods he was slower

[ULTRAZLS1]

I went 10s at 125 at US 131 in positive DA as well

Check that slip out too? lol guessing not

It’s a 10.7 car at 125+ in negative DA and good prep. Probably gonna stay that way for the year I’m done modding it for now. Nothing is available anyway. Can’t even buy gears. Not gonna gut it or run $50 gal fuel. No thanks on big converter on daily driver. It’s a true mild bolt on ten second car. Took hardly any effort. People have went tens without headers in these cars. H/C cars should be 9s this year. Without being gutted or race fuel. The TM system on this platform is brutal. The faster you go the more it tries to slow you down. Pray added 120 rwhp and barely gained first trip out because of tuning issues

[Steph93lx]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

No way lol. 6 pm was my only good run of the night about 50f. 40-48? Nice spread. It was 48-50 at 6 pm I was there.I almost crashed the car prep was so bad. I left after two more tries. Could have went 10.7 at US131 in that air.

It was -150 at the time of my run checked with weather data from nearest airport with AutoDens app. Drag times is not the Bible. In fact it’s almost always off when I compare to data directly from my location

DA got to -500 or so by the end of the night. Never -1000. I never got any good runs after my first one prep was so bad. Even my good run I got sideways on my 1-2 shift. It was my second time out with the setup and still got no good data.

Great prepping track? No you’re terribly mistaken not on test only night. I usually go to 131 and run consistently better. Always good prep. Milan only preps decent when other classes running with test. And then you are just waiting around all night. There timing system is old and messes up a lot too. I was 2 mph off in that lane all night compared to the other. The track is nearly bankrupted dump at this point.

Comparing me to that car is a joke regardless. It’s a race car. With my mods he was slower

I am not doing any comparison with any car.
I have been using dragtime for a reason. Everybody can use it and that way we are closer to compare apple to apple.

I have done my best at -1030 DA on drag time but on a guy kestrel it was -650. I could have use that number and like the other guy there I know and they are Mustang guy by the way and use that DA. For sure they all like those other source.

Use the lowest DA report you can find like you and some of my Mustang friend do with a portable DA reader, Autodens app or any other source you like lol. Then the poor guy that ran slower with the same mode at the same track in -900 DA don't understand how you do it at -100. Well if they have got it from your source they would have show a DA of like - 300 or -100.


I don't play that game. It's not fair for 98% of people that only rely on dragtime.
Easier for everybody to compare with dragtime.
I have run around -1030 da you have run beetween -517 and - 1092 on drag time on your best run it's not perfect but that's a fair comparison and everybody can confirm those number on drag time.

It's a more honest way to compare even for the other camaro6 fast list member.